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Government looking to force landlords to upgrade

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Comments

  • #2
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,482 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Says commercial properties


  • #3
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,249 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Varik wrote: »
    Says commercial properties
    read the article

    Says: “ Landlords with residential lettings could have to choose between upgrading to a minimum BER and compensating their tenants for higher heating bills under what is termed a 'cost balancing arrangement'.”

    So in the same week they are proposing a rent freeze, they propose this. Shows they haven’t a clue.


  • #4
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,482 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    ted1 wrote: »
    read the article

    Says: “ Landlords with residential lettings could have to choose between upgrading to a minimum BER and compensating their tenants for higher heating bills under what is termed a 'cost balancing arrangement'.”

    So in the same week they are proposing a rent freeze, they propose this. Shows they haven’t a clue.


    Sign up and read the article more like


  • #5
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    ted1 wrote: »
    read the article

    Says: “ Landlords with residential lettings could have to choose between upgrading to a minimum BER and compensating their tenants for higher heating bills under what is termed a 'cost balancing arrangement'.”

    So in the same week they are proposing a rent freeze, they propose this. Shows they haven’t a clue.


    Apparently the tenant vote is stronger. The landlord's are easy targets.


  • #6
    mickuhaha
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭mickuhaha


    Should the standard not be the same as council house standards required under EU directives.


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  • #7
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    mickuhaha wrote: »
    Should the standard not be the same as council house standards required under EU directives.


    so council houses are not very high BER. What is the council standard ?


  • #8
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    handlemaster wrote: »
    so council houses are not very high BER. What is the council standard ?

    Minimal rental standards should be the same across the board.


  • #9
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭The Student


    handlemaster wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/news/environment/landlords-could-be-forced-to-retrofit-their-properties-under-new-proposals-38758892.html




    I like this quote from the minister, ah no landlords will not welcome having to spend thousands more on their properties.

    Improved properties will be welcome for tenants and landlords alike because they will result in improved living conditions, better health outcomes and enhanced asset value. The environmental impact will be significant, with lower energy bills and lower emissions."

    if this is forced in I will be leaving the sector. I refuse to upgrade properties until I can recoup the costs and the landlord protection is improved.


  • #10
    Mitzy
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭Mitzy


    The Student wrote: »
    if this is forced in I will be leaving the sector. I refuse to upgrade properties until I can recoup the costs and the landlord protection is improved.

    I doubt you will be the only one. The sector is hemorrhaging one off landlords at the moment and this will be the final blow to many I expect.


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Student wrote: »
    if this is forced in I will be leaving the sector. I refuse to upgrade properties until I can recoup the costs and the landlord protection is improved.

    Maybe that's the plan. Force small landlords to sell up. Larger landlords or buyers will move in and buy. Easier to make large landlords to comply with these sort of regulations then.


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  • #12
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    This will force a lot of landlord's to sell what they have, because there's no profits in it now.

    Its loose loose for one off landlord's, win win for the vultures..

    Id say there's going to be a lot of anxiety on the road this morning if these misfortunes were listening to the news, sucked into the money in bricks and mortar delusion.


    Anything that sounds like easy money isn't....


  • #13
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    The Student wrote: »
    if this is forced in I will be leaving the sector. I refuse to upgrade properties until I can recoup the costs and the landlord protection is improved.

    100% I will follow suit.
    I have a well built 2006 house. Timber frame, easily heated (it was my PPR for 12 years) and up to current standards. Flew through the recent Inspections by the LA also.

    I maintain it well, I look after the tenants in place since 2015.
    If I'm forced to put any significant money into it, i'll sell.


  • #14
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    "consultant suggested as an option" does not mean "government looking to" - at least not directly

    This is effectively unimplementable and if they did bring it in and figure out a way to enforce it it would have an even more severe impact than the bedsit ban.


  • #15
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Meh, paper never refused ink! That just sounds like a think tank, like possible Budget proposals. None of this has come to pass. As the FULL article states they are looking at ideas and this is one of them.


  • #16
    CPTM
    Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭CPTM


    Yep, I'd say it's to get landlords to sell. More houses on the market for the renting population, and decreases the number of landlords who are getting away with not declaring rental income. Large vulture companies are easier to regulate than the man on the street with an extra house or two.


  • #17
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    CPTM wrote: »
    Yep, I'd say it's to get landlords to sell. More houses on the market for the renting population, and decreases the number of landlords who are getting away with not declaring rental income. Large vulture companies are easier to regulate than the man on the street with an extra house or two.
    That would be cuckoos. Vultures buy and sell on!


  • #18
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Yet another thread where people are wishing for large institutional Landlords. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

    How is a LL supposed to upgrade an apartment btw? Other than replace the windows.


  • #19
    guyfo
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭guyfo


    The Student wrote: »
    if this is forced in I will be leaving the sector. I refuse to upgrade properties until I can recoup the costs and the landlord protection is improved.

    Pretty sure the sky high rents at the moment would cover your costs.....


  • #20
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    guyfo wrote: »
    Pretty sure the sky high rents at the moment would cover your costs.....

    The sky high rents are being driven by large REITs targeting luxury rentals. The actual rents being charged by 'legacy' LLs is much lower as can be seen by the RTB figures. Regardless there is very little liquid cash in renting and therefore people will simply sell up in many cases pushing more people into €2000 a month luxury rentals, but hey at least they wont have to run the heating.


  • #21
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,281 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    we have an 70's bungalow which we have got from an F to a c2 i seriously doubt i can do much more to it without tossing it and rebulding it.

    tenants always say how easy it is to heat

    (certainly a lot lot easier than my 19 century property :)

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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  • #22
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,346 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Yet another thread where people are wishing for large institutional Landlords. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

    How is a LL supposed to upgrade an apartment btw? Other than replace the windows.

    They can insulate internally or have the entire block upgraded with external insulation with the management company agreement. Improve the heaters, lighting, water heater etc..

    It is possible just not very practical or easy.

    I have already upgrade my property when the grant system for insulation came in as it was less restrictive. Originally it was by household so the property having 3 flats meant 3 grants. They changed it to per property. It was actually cheaper then than getting my own house done.


  • #23
    redarmyblues
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭redarmyblues


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Yet another thread where people are wishing for large institutional Landlords. You really couldn't make this stuff up.

    How is a LL supposed to upgrade an apartment btw? Other than replace the windows.

    Windows may not be easy to do either because they would have to look exaxtly the same as all the others in the block.


  • #24
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    redarmyblues wrote: »
    Windows may not be easy to do either because they would have to look exaxtly the same as all the others in the block.
    Not exactly. We have a stipulation - white, that and the common sense of owners. Most replaced windows look very similar.


  • #25
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,249 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    CPTM wrote: »
    Yep, I'd say it's to get landlords to sell. More houses on the market for the renting population, and decreases the number of landlords who are getting away with not declaring rental income. Large vulture companies are easier to regulate than the man on the street with an extra house or two.

    Are vultures/cuckoo funds really interested in single properties that are not up to the regulations.

    I thought they only want Multi unit developments.


  • #26
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ted1 wrote: »
    Are vultures/cuckoo funds really interested in single properties that are not up to the regulations.

    I thought they only want Multi unit developments.
    Multiples and that has a place as well in a normal functioning rental market.


  • #27
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭The Student


    guyfo wrote: »
    Pretty sure the sky high rents at the moment would cover your costs.....

    What happens when the tenant is not paying rent for a year and cant evict them
    and even if and when you do get them out you dont see any money for the months they were there but you are left to pay the mortgage. Is the "rent" still covering the costs!


  • #28
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,263 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    I've been very critical of the RPZ in the past due to the way in which one landlord is empowered to charge a much higher rent than the landlord of an identical neighbouring property for no reason other than the fact that they had been taking the piss in the first place with rent hikes that created the need for the RPZ legislation.

    If you're going to to do rent control, do it right. Create an index of rent in a €/sq.m and add in a BER adjusment, all of this information is included in RTB registrations.

    Restructure the tax on rental income to be based on percentiles of this index to hurt the cohort of landlords who lead the charge to higher rents.


  • #29
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,249 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    guyfo wrote: »
    Pretty sure the sky high rents at the moment would cover your costs.....

    Sky high rents, with 52% of that rent going in taxes. It’s the government or are making the money


  • #30
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    ted1 wrote: »
    Sky high rents, with 52% of that rent going in taxes. It’s the government or are making the money

    That's what the plan all along was, they've the best actuaries in the world...

    Fool's and their money are easily parted.


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  • #31
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    The Student wrote: »
    if this is forced in I will be leaving the sector. I refuse to upgrade properties until I can recoup the costs and the landlord protection is improved.
    15-11-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    I suspect you will see more investors leaving the market to avail of the cgt exemptions and escape the onerous landlord/tenant legislation.
    ...

    5-11-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    Yes previous generations were able to rent and save to buy, but this was in times when the population was smaller, the rental standards were lower. The Govt is playing to the populist vote of trying to house people but not via the state which is one of the reasons the small private landlords are leaving the market.

    24-10-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    The result landlords leave the market, a property that was housing for example four adults is sold to a couple as their first property. So now we have two less bed spaces to rent. So in a time where supply is not meeting demand the Govt forces some landlords to leave the market and as a result a reduction in bed spaces.

    16-10-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    Using your sentiment of all landlords will eventually leave the market then the same can be said for tenants who either buy a property or are housed by the State.

    20-9-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    Have you ever asked yourself if being a landlord was easy money why are individual landlords leaving the market in their droves.

    29-7-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    With the ongoing anti landlord stance and the constantly changing "goal posts" expect to see increasing numbers of landlords exiting the market.
    The Student wrote: »
    ...

    Getting back to the topic of the thread landlords will continue to leave the market because of the taxation and the govt approach to them. Will be interesting if they change there approach following the release of these findings from the RTB. 2019 figs will be most interesting.

    30-5-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    On the contrary with the numbers of landlords leaving the market I would suggest that the policy is working. I would however urge caution to the Govt. Unless they review the treatment of private landlords they risk more leaving the sector to be replaced by institutional landlords.
    ...

    15-5-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    This was initially designed to catch unregistered landlords for tax purposes. The Govt know there are landlords out there not registered for tax and are afraid if they go after them they will exit the market leaving more people looking for accommodation.

    10-4-19:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    We already have a large amount of protection for tenants and you now want more. What exactly do you think will happen if you bring rent caps in. Private landlords will just leave the market and tenants will be left at the mercy of institutional landlords.

    25-10-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    Why do you think small landlords are leaving the sector if it was easy money?

    11-10-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    There are both good and bad tenants and landlords. What you find is that those of us who actually abide by the rules get mixed with those who don't. The term Landlord is toxic these days, you would swear you were the devil himself. Unless both bad tenants and landlords are driven from the sector you run the risk of only having bad landlords and fair landlords like myself (at least I consider myself a fair landlord) will leave the market because of the anti landlord stance and legislation.

    5-10-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    Based on my observations and those in the media small landlords are leaving the market and are not being replaced. If the laws of economics were to work in the normal fashion then there would be an increase in landlords entering the market rather than a decrease.

    3-10-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    Option 2 will allow purchasers compete with landlords on future purchases. As it stands current renters will never be able to save a deposit and will be stuck renting forever. If landlords leave where will the existing tenants live when the property is sold due to the anti landlord stance.

    22-9-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    Keep up with the anti landlord stance and see how many landlords leave the market.

    4-9-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    Landlords are leaving the sector because of the tax charges and the anti landlord stances the govt have taken. Prsonallt I would not trust the govt as they will change position whenever it suits them. I think this maybe a little to late for a lot of landlords. The number of ex rentals going onto the sales market is quite high.

    19-4-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    ...
    Based on whats being discussed on boards expect an increasing number of landlords leaving the sector. This will do nothing other than take bed spaces out of the rental market making it even more difficult to find accommodation.

    5-4-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    In some instances you are seen as "fill in" money but not always. Landlords might take a longer term view if the Govt stopped interfering in the sector. A property is a long term business venture but the constant changes the Govt is making not least the Anti Landlord stance they have adopted is one of the main reasons landlords are leaving the sector.
    ...

    22-3-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    I would have to agree with you on this. Expect more landlords to leave the market.

    9-2-18:
    The Student wrote: »
    I certainly can!

    Suffice to say expect an increased exit from the market if any additional taxes/charges are levied. I would rather let me relatives live rent free in the property than pay anymore tax. I am being crucified with tax and all the costs associated with being a landlord.

    22-12-17:
    The Student wrote: »
    Expect it to get worse. There are a lot of investors who bought in 2011 & 2012 who can avail of the exemption of capital gains tax after 7 years. These investors are only waiting to exit the market.

    3-11-17:
    The Student wrote: »
    Maybe if the govt treated the small landlords like the REITS then they would not be leaving the sector.
    The Student wrote: »
    Exactly. Good news does not sell papers. This is exactly why landlords are leaving in their droves. And I will be one of them as soon as my current tenants decide to leave. I will be sorry to see them go but I am not willing to take a risk on new ones.

    Would you ever just get on with it then?


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