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Cabot financial..??

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  • 17-05-2019 5:55pm
    #1
    UsBus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭


    I am in the process of purchasing a property. Been waiting on the vendor to get title deeds of their property for the last 3 months. I have found out during this time that the mortgage was taken over by a finance company. My solicitor won't get contracts until these deeds arrive out to the seller's solicitors.

    After threatening to pull out of the sale this week, the finance company finally communicated that they would not release deeds until I supplied bank statements, proof of funds to purchase, utility bill, passport, driving license etc.

    Has anyone had any dealings with this crowd.? I have no intention of supplying my bank statements or personal info to an institution I have no knowledge or dealings with..

    I'm also furious with the auctioneer who stated it was a straight forward sale when I questioned him.
    It's getting next to impossible to purchase a house here at this stage.. Where do they store your financial information when you supply it to them I wonder.?


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    #2
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    They should just need passport to verify identity and proof that you have the funds. Your bank statements are irrelevant to them.
    Have you asked why they need them?
    What has your solicitor said?


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    #3
    satguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭satguy


    As far as I know, under GDPR regulations they can not expect you to hand over such information.


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    #4
    UsBus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Kyng Tall Bolt wrote: »
    They should just need passport to verify identity and proof that you have the funds. Your bank statements are irrelevant to them.
    Have you asked why they need them?
    What has your solicitor said?

    To be honest, my solicitor has not had to deal with them before so wasn't sure. It's hard enough to get info from the sellers solicitor nevermind some finance company. My solicitor did say this was standard for receiver sales, which I was told this wasn't. My broker has also advised against supplying the figure I am approved for as some finance companies have been known to up the asking price.

    I don't want to get involved with them at this point. I'll find something else I think..


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    #5
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    If the seller is demanding proof of identity and funds to sell the property, that is their prerogative, if you don’t want to provide the proof, then there will be no sale, simple as that. To those saying it breaches GDPR, that is rubbish, there is a genuine reason for seeking that information and considering the nature of their business, the institution in question would have to be GDPR compliant. You can request their GDPR policies before you hand over the info to satisfy yourself.

    In relation to the auctioneer, they can only go by the info given by the vendor. Assuming Cabot have accepted your bid, they should be able to sell the property just like a private seller.

    So, your call, supply the info requested and buy the property, or refuse and walk away. If you have the funds, what is the problem?

    There is another similar thread where a private seller/auctioneer was looking for proof of funds before going sale agreed, this is sensible, in the other thread the buyer it turned out didn’t have the funds and was relying on a gift from a family member, if the funds are not there, it wastes everyone’s time and prevents another bidder from getting the property.


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    #6
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    satguy wrote: »
    As far as I know, under GDPR regulations they can not expect you to hand over such information.

    What GDPR regulation stops a property seller from asking for proof of funds?


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    #7
    satguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭satguy


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What GDPR regulation stops a property seller from asking for proof of funds?

    They can ask for proof of funds,,, But all the other stuff,, bank statements, utility bill, passport, driving license etc,, is a no no..


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    #8
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    satguy wrote: »
    They can ask for proof of funds,,, But all the other stuff,, bank statements, utility bill, passport, driving license etc,, is a no no..

    Why?


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    #9
    deandean
    Registered Users Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭deandean


    It's nothing to do with gdpr. Cabot requires to have this information on file for AML (anti-money-laundering) purposes.
    I expect they will not do business with you unless they have the required information on file. So if you want to do the deal, give them the information.


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    #10
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    UsBus wrote: »
    I am in the process of purchasing a property. Been waiting on the vendor to get title deeds of their property for the last 3 months. I have found out during this time that the mortgage was taken over by a finance company. My solicitor won't get contracts until these deeds arrive out to the seller's solicitors.

    After threatening to pull out of the sale this week, the finance company finally communicated that they would not release deeds until I supplied bank statements, proof of funds to purchase, utility bill, passport, driving license etc.

    Has anyone had any dealings with this crowd.? I have no intention of supplying my bank statements or personal info to an institution I have no knowledge or dealings with..

    I'm also furious with the auctioneer who stated it was a straight forward sale when I questioned him.
    It's getting next to impossible to purchase a house here at this stage.. Where do they store your financial information when you supply it to them I wonder.?

    Some of those vulture funds have their own Know Your Client requirements “KYC” requirements for purchasers of property that they have a charge over. I think it is ridiculous to ask this. They aren’t lending to you.

    I’ve seen law society have posted on their websites about the requirements and you would need to give your consent on this.


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    #11
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    A major issue here is the fact that OP is being asked to hand over private info to this finance company theyve not heard of before.

    The finance company should realise that the people buying a home will need reassurance that this company who theyve never heard off - aren't a bunch of shysters.


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    #12
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Old diesel wrote: »
    A major issue here is the fact that OP is being asked to hand over private info to this finance company theyve not heard of before.

    The finance company should realise that the people buying a home will need reassurance that this company who theyve never heard off - aren't a bunch of shysters.

    The op is being asked to hand over proof of identity and funds, by the seller.


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    #13
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Old diesel wrote: »
    A major issue here is the fact that OP is being asked to hand over private info to this finance company theyve not heard of before.

    The finance company should realise that the people buying a home will need reassurance that this company who theyve never heard off - aren't a bunch of shysters.

    The op is being asked to hand over proof of identity and funds, by the seller.

    It's Cobalt looking for the info.

    Not the seller.

    (The sellers mortgage got transferred over)


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    #14
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Old diesel wrote: »
    It's Cobalt looking for the info.

    Not the seller.

    (The sellers mortgage got transferred over)

    And deeds will not be released until op supplies the requested info to them. This isn’t difficult to understand.


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    #15
    usernamegoes
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭usernamegoes


    If this is a KYC requirement, why is it Cabot's concern? Surely it's the receiver making the sale and as far as I can recall, a receiver is not a designated person under the AML Regs. In fact, assuming these loans which secure the property are owned by an SPV related to Cabot, I am not sure that would fall under the AML regulations either. If Cabot are a credit servicing firm under the regs, I don't think that is a designated person either under the AML regulations.

    If Cabot have not legal obligation then under GDPR what would there lawful basis be? Legitimate Interest? I can't see that passing a legitimate interest balancing assessment.


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    #16
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    usernamegoes wrote: »
    If this is a KYC requirement, why is it Cabot's concern? Surely it's the receiver making the sale and as far as I can recall, a receiver is not a designated person under the AML Regs. In fact, assuming these loans which secure the property are owned by an SPV related to Cabot, I am not sure that would fall under the AML regulations either. If Cabot are a credit servicing firm under the regs, I don't think that is a designated person either under the AML regulations.

    If Cabot have not legal obligation then under GDPR what would there lawful basis be? Legitimate Interest? I can't see that passing a legitimate interest balancing assessment.

    Cabot Financial Ireland Limited, the credit servicing business, was appointed by Promontoria Scarriff Designated Activity Company as the regulated entity responsible for dealing with its mortgage administration.

    Last year, Ulster Bank sold a loan book portfolio, known as Project Scariff, worth €1.6 billion.

    It would seem Cabot are administering the mortgage on the property and hold the deeds. The current owner probably had a mortgage with Ulster bank which was sold on.

    Cabot are now dealing with the mortgage on this property and until it is paid off in full, they retain the deeds. Therefore, they have every right, on behalf of the Promontaria, to request proof of identity and funds, before releasing those deeds.

    The op has not been informed that a Receiver is involved, his solicitor just said that he hadn’t dealt with Cabot in a house purchase before and as their main business is debt collection, probably assumed it is a Receiver sale. Had he read about Cabot been appointed by Promontaria to administer the loan book they bought from Ulster Bank, he may not have said that.


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    #17
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,097 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    You don't need to produce bank statement just proof of funds. A letter from your bank would do.
    I'm currently in the same process but I had to submit everything 24hrs after making the offer. Once approved as a buyer I'll then need to provide proof of where the funds came from etc.
    If you pay the €5 you'll see the details on the folio. The one I'm trying to buy shows up as part of that project scarrif that was sold off https://www.landdirect.ie/pramap/


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    #18
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,097 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I have a concern though, how much more property in this portfolio has yet to come to market. The folio change details on mine was only updated in February, I'm afraid their drip feeding property and a lot of houses could come up in the same area as it's a big BTL location.


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    #19
    usernamegoes
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭usernamegoes


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Therefore, they have every right, on behalf of the Promontaria, to request proof of identity and funds, before releasing those deeds.

    What are you saying is the legal basis? Are you saying it's KYC? Do the AML regs apply to a SPV loan owner? Not from my reading. Do they apply to a regulated credit servicing firm? Not that I have been able to establish.

    Is it just because they want to?


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    #20
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    usernamegoes wrote: »
    What are you saying is the legal basis? Are you saying it's KYC? Do the AML regs apply to a SPV loan owner? Not from my reading. Do they apply to a regulated credit servicing firm? Not that I have been able to establish.

    Is it just because they want to?

    The legal basis for requesting information about the identity and ability to finance the purchase is they are responsible for administration on behalf of the mortgage company, they hold the deeds and have told the ops solicitor they will not release them. Are you arguing that they have no legal basis for requiring information about the identity of the buyer and checking whether they can afford it, before they release important documents like deeds to a property?


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    #21
    uberwolf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,578 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The legal basis for requesting information about the identity and ability to finance the purchase is they are responsible for administration on behalf of the mortgage company, they hold the deeds and have told the ops solicitor they will not release them. Are you arguing that they have no legal basis for requiring information about the identity of the buyer and checking whether they can afford it, before they release important documents like deeds to a property?

    they're not releasing them to the OP though, they're releasing (presumably on foot of an undertaking) to a solicitor. i get the proof of funds query. The ID though I don't tbh. It may be that they've agreed a settlement on this property and are looking for comfort that they're not selling to a party connected to the current mortgagee.


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    #22
    usernamegoes
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭usernamegoes


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The legal basis for requesting information about the identity and ability to finance the purchase is they are responsible for administration on behalf of the mortgage company, they hold the deeds and have told the ops solicitor they will not release them. Are you arguing that they have no legal basis for requiring information about the identity of the buyer and checking whether they can afford it, before they release important documents like deeds to a property?

    It will work as like every other sale, the funds will be paid by the bank to the sellers and they will then hand over the deeds. Are you saying they will release the deeds based on just seeing the bank statements!


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    #23
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,097 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    uberwolf wrote: »
    The ID though I don't tbh.

    I had to provide a certified ID and proof of address. That was on the assumption my offer will be accepted but it's not an immediate decision. I can still be outbid while waiting for them to accept as they won't take it off the market until I'm approved as a buyer.


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    #24
    UsBus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Just to update on this,
    Cabot have requested bank statements/proof of funds, passport/driving license, Utility bill, my occupation and the name of my employer..

    The request for the deeds was 12 weeks ago. With a week to go in my mortgage offer, they have requested this information. It is my understanding that someone in Cabot got a b%llicking for leaving the file sitting on their desk for nearly 3 months after a complaint went in.

    My mortgage offer will run out of time whatever happens now. I certainly wouldn't want to furnish a company this lax with my financial/personal information..

    Pathetic effort from the seller's solicitor in any case....


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    #25
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    UsBus wrote: »
    Just to update on this,
    Cabot have requested bank statements/proof of funds, passport/driving license, Utility bill, my occupation and the name of my employer..

    The request for the deeds was 12 weeks ago. With a week to go in my mortgage offer, they have requested this information. It is my understanding that someone in Cabot got a b%llicking for leaving the file sitting on their desk for nearly 3 months after a complaint went in.

    My mortgage offer will run out of time whatever happens now. I certainly wouldn't want to furnish a company this lax with my financial/personal information..

    Pathetic effort from the seller's solicitor in any case....

    Op, help yourself if you do want to buy the property.

    Give them the info they need to release the deeds and inform your bank that purchase process is slowly moving along. Rather than asking randomers on the internet, you should be discussing with your own solicitor as to why he/she wasn’t following up on this before now.

    If you don’t want the property, move on.


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    #26
    UsBus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    Just if anyone needs confirmation in future, I've had it confirmed with legal advice that this finance company are not supposed to request personal information for this purpose. The law society actually advises against supplying them with such information.


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    #27
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,097 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    The vendor/ea should have told you all this on day one, mine did at the first viewing.
    I supplied what they needed some via my solicitor who didn't raise any concerns. They had what they wanted within 24hrs of requesting it from me.


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    #28
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I have a concern though, how much more property in this portfolio has yet to come to market. The folio change details on mine was only updated in February, I'm afraid their drip feeding property and a lot of houses could come up in the same area as it's a big BTL location.

    This depends entirely on the owners.
    Cabot have bought the loans, not the properties- it is the prerogative of the owners to sell the property- if/when they are in a position to satisfy their o/s debts with the owner of their debts. The property itself is simply the collateral they are using.

    For example- if new legislation was coming in which was detrimental to landlords- it is entirely foreseeable that they might decide to exit the sector in as orderly a fashion as they possibly could


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    #29
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    This depends entirely on the owners.
    Cabot have bought the loans, not the properties- it is the prerogative of the owners to sell the property- if/when they are in a position to satisfy their o/s debts with the owner of their debts. The property itself is simply the collateral they are using.

    For example- if new legislation was coming in which was detrimental to landlords- it is entirely foreseeable that they might decide to exit the sector in as orderly a fashion as they possibly could

    Cabot might be selling as mortgagee in possession or in the alternative the owner is in negative equity and thuse needs approval for any sale.


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    #30
    satguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭satguy


    At the end of the day it will boil down to how much you want the property. Also maybe a bigger issue might boil down is how much you trust Cabot Financial.

    I for one would not trust one inch.


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    #31
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    satguy wrote: »
    At the end of the day it will boil down to how much you want the property. Also maybe a bigger issue might boil down is how much you trust Cabot Financial.

    I for one would not trust one inch.

    On what basis do you place your trust in any seller? Just interested. Personally I’ve never known any seller well enough to trust or distrust them, I just want the property.


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