Property Market 2019

Busterie · 24-08-2019 6:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair few replies here so let me clarify.

I bought the house just over a year ago with good intentions. I have had neighbours who constantly slam doors and seem to have a social schedule out of norm, not music but coming and going and slamming the doors so loud it wakes me. Its not all there fault, the house is not well soundproofed, i have weighed up the cost of soundproofing, how much i need to spend on the kitchen, bathroom etc. and have decided it just isnt worth it with the racket from next door. Life is too short to put up with it and i have said it a few times to them and who knows they could be there for years or else another family worse could move in. Its a rental and maybe the landlord might sell but i doubt it.

I am looking at buying a detached somewhere, i dont want to have to get used to sleeping with ear plugs. Its a year of frustration and as i said life is too short.

You might say 5k is a lot in a year, houses are getting 245 at the moment so i hope just break even.

Hope this clears up the 'crazy and poor decision making' comment. its a decent location so the decision was not crazy, i did not realise the poor quality of the houses and the neighbours i would be stuck with. So i need 6.5% to break even

I am even thinking about approaching the council to save on the estate agent fees

Have you contacted the landlord, most do not want tenants like this.
Maybe the LL is only looking for an excuse to get rid of them

24-08-2019 7:59pm

It's not as easy as that, different religion etc. so could easily play the race card, house standard not great although it's over 30 years old. At this stage

I have come to my own conclusion, rather than fork out about 30-40k which wouldn't guarantee me my peace and quiet I am just going to buy a detached with little work to be done

Samuel T. Cogley · 24-08-2019 8:04pm

Busterie wrote: »

Have you contacted the landlord, most do not want tenants like this.
Maybe the LL is only looking for an excuse to get rid of them

Tenants are near on impossible to get rid of.

Mad_maxx · 24-08-2019 10:48pm

JJJackal wrote: »

Everyone (or at least alot of people) assumes Brexit will lead to a drop in house prices. This is not guaranteed. Pre-brexit has lead to a stabilizing of house prices - this is due to uncertainty.

A favourable Brexit (I dont know what a favourable Brexit would look like - who knows if a hard Brexit would result in an influx of people to Ireland, influx of jobs or just complete recession) could lead to a rapid bump in price

A recession might well be on the way irrespective of brexit, trump appears determined to wreck things via twitter and Europe is a perennial basketcase

bdmc5 · 25-08-2019 1:05am

terrydel wrote: »

I know there are reasons for it, but the size of gardens in new builds is criminal. Garden is hugely important to me, I've two dogs that need the space and it is a place for myself and herself to relax and escape to. I'd buy a lesser house with a good garden over a better new build with a small back garden any day.

Would totally be the opposite then. We rented a nice house with a great garden for 1.5 years before we bought our new built for approx 400k in Cork. The new house blows every 2nd hand house we viewed out of the water in terms of finish, size quality so we didn't mind at all the smaller garden and don't miss it.

I do find it abit strange some of comments bemoaning garden sizes & issues around social housing etc as if all new builds have tiny gardens and knackers living around the corner. In reality our garden is a decent size and all our neighbours are genuinely lovely peoole. Dare I say there's tad bit of envy perhaps that new builds are out of budget of some on here who had to settle for a used home of inferior quality

End of day you cant live in your garden. I'm sure down the line if we had more kids\pets then a bigger garden would be nice but it's a nice to have rather a priority over quality of home.

L1011 · 25-08-2019 1:43am

I wouldn't consider any begrudgery stuff with new builds - any higher prices are because of external distortion factors (HTB) alone and nothing else. Don't feel superior for buying a new build.

r93kaey5p2izun · 25-08-2019 1:48am

I can afford the new builds where I'm buying but they just do not appeal to me at all. And yes, it's mostly because of the garden. I am buying an older house that needs a lot of work because of its large mature garden. I fully intend to live a lot of my life in the garden! I can upgrade the old house, the new build gardens don't offer much potential.

99problems1 · 25-08-2019 2:05am

There's no recession coming for gods sake.

Too many algorithms and connected systems nowadays. Information is live.

The best time to buy property was 7 years ago. The next best time to buy it is now.

Experience_day · 25-08-2019 2:10am

99problems1 wrote: »

There's no recession coming for gods sake.

Too many algorithms and connected systems nowadays. Information is live.

The best time to buy property was 7 years ago. The next best time to buy it is now.

So just to spitball, if the advances in AI/RPA that are sweeping through the operations of IB/AM/PE enterprises..........carry on, you don't reckon it could negatively affect Ireland, especially we have a growing reliance on the financial services.....and mostly look at the operations side rather than the revenue generation part?

Dolbhad · 25-08-2019 7:34am

I don’t think it’s a case people can’t afford new builds and only reason why they are against them. I had gone sale agreed on a new build in Cork. I agree in the pluses of quality and the convenience of A3 rating. But I pulled out over the size of the back garden, the fact you basically have no front garden and houses aren’t spaced out so tend to be very close together/on top of each other. I don’t have kids yet but I do want a garden or the possibility of a bit of space if I needed to extend the house in future.

I wouldn’t have minded paying more for a bigger garden but you can’t. Building regulations will continue to change. In ten years new builds now won’t be new and new builds then will be even of better quality. But I would still would have a small garden and potentially needed to move if the house no longer suited my needs. It’s a lot of money to spend now to have those restrictives. So our plan is to be a 1970’s or 1980’s house and do it up.

It’s different renting an old house. You and the landlord won’t invest it in. But if you buy an old house you would. Just think people need to realise an old house will need work and money whereas new build is turn key.

lawred2 · 25-08-2019 7:42am

Where are all these places where the older houses are cheaper than new builds anyway?

Dolbhad · 25-08-2019 7:55am

I have seen in Cork second hand houses in places like Glanmire have gone down because there has been such an influx in new builds there. Ballincollig to a lesser extent but prices still strong depending on the estate.

I don’t think they are a lot cheaper per say and a real issue is they aren’t priced accordingly. You do need to put work in and you do find a seller who only thinks about the value of the area and not the house so will have it for a high price regardless of then work. Those houses seem to be stalling and being left there, rather than be reduced.

So I don’t think it’s always better for value in Cork. If you need a place to buy soon, like knowing the price and aren’t fussed about the garden, new builds are the way to go (depending on the builder). Esp as they seem to be on good locations in Cork. Otherwise it can be s slog going through the process. But I’m not under pressure so can wait it out.

tigger123 · 25-08-2019 3:34pm

We had the option of a new build, but there's feck all services around it, so went for a similar size property that needed some modernisation in an established area. Has a massive back garden too.

Its also closer to work. Commuting time was high ip my list of priorities.

Horses for courses.

riclad · 25-08-2019 4:03pm

i Think an old house that has a larger garden with walls around it
is a better buy than a new house with a standard garden ,
with a small fence around it.
A new house in an estate with 50 identical house,s around it
is not attractive to me.
I understand an old house may need 20k spent on it to bring it up to modern standards .
All the new house,s seem to be 300k, plus .
if you buy an old house ,20 plus years old, on a street its very unlikely the council will decide
buy 5 houses on the street for the purpose of social housing .
I,m not against social housing , i am reading articles in the papers ,
builders are selling 10-20 per cent of new house,s in estates to the council
as the housing market has slowed down in the last year .
Just go to daft.ie ,put 340k into the search box , see what appears .
i expect a recession in the next 5 years,
Caused by brexit, trade wars, trump, and other factors .
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/upshot/how-the-recession-of-2020-could-happen.html
America seems to be pushing for war with iran, that would have a significant effect on the price of oil .

Ginger83 · 25-08-2019 4:18pm

bdmc5 wrote: »

Would totally be the opposite then. We rented a nice house with a great garden for 1.5 years before we bought our new built for approx 400k in Cork. The new house blows every 2nd hand house we viewed out of the water in terms of finish, size quality so we didn't mind at all the smaller garden and don't miss it.

I do find it abit strange some of comments bemoaning garden sizes & issues around social housing etc as if all new builds have tiny gardens and knackers living around the corner. In reality our garden is a decent size and all our neighbours are genuinely lovely peoole. Dare I say there's tad bit of envy perhaps that new builds are out of budget of some on here who had to settle for a used home of inferior quality

End of day you cant live in your garden. I'm sure down the line if we had more kids\pets then a bigger garden would be nice but it's a nice to have rather a priority over quality of home.

I wouldn't envy anyone who paid 400k for a house.

99problems1 · 25-08-2019 4:36pm

Experience_day wrote: »

So just to spitball, if the advances in AI/RPA that are sweeping through the operations of IB/AM/PE enterprises..........carry on, you don't reckon it could negatively affect Ireland, especially we have a growing reliance on the financial services.....and mostly look at the operations side rather than the revenue generation part?

Corporations run tight ships nowadays. The last crash is in the mind of everyone still. No one is throwing money away like they used to.

Bigmac1euro · 25-08-2019 5:14pm

For myself looking at new builds was very attractive the houses are unreal and the layout and use of space within the new builds was excellent but they are all lacking the most important thing for me and that’s location, you cannot change location. They also lacked infrastructure and I found the majority of new builds seem to be bought by foreigners particularly Pakistani.
I have nothing against foreigners but I’d rather Irish neighbours as I mix with Irish people better, also massive portions of new builds are being sold to the council, a few people I know have bought new builds and I do feel a little sorry for them. Their mortgage is also massive but each to their own.

bdmc5 · 25-08-2019 6:33pm

Dolbhad wrote: »

I don’t think it’s a case people can’t afford new builds and only reason why they are against them. I had gone sale agreed on a new build in Cork. I agree in the pluses of quality and the convenience of A3 rating. But I pulled out over the size of the back garden, the fact you basically have no front garden and houses aren’t spaced out so tend to be very close together/on top of each other. I don’t have kids yet but I do want a garden or the possibility of a bit of space if I needed to extend the house in future.

I wouldn’t have minded paying more for a bigger garden but you can’t. Building regulations will continue to change. In ten years new builds now won’t be new and new builds then will be even of better quality. But I would still would have a small garden and potentially needed to move if the house no longer suited my needs. It’s a lot of money to spend now to have those restrictives. So our plan is to be a 1970’s or 1980’s house and do it up.

It’s different renting an old house. You and the landlord won’t invest it in. But if you buy an old house you would. Just think people need to realise an old house will need work and money whereas new build is turn key.

I didn't say affordability was only reason people wouldn't go for anew built but maybe it a Dublin thing as new built in our estate have a generous back gardens and no social housing on our access to the estate as its a established estate with a small bit allocated already.

We ended buying in Blackrock in Cork and the 2nd hand 4 bed semis we viewed in the area had lovely gardens but small kitchens, 1 loo and very dated design. They were 40k cheaper (20k after FTB grant). Any of those houses needed well over 80 to 100k to bring to standard of new built but even then they were still 200 to 250 SQ feet smaller.

Of course there are compromises with new builds . We are partially overlooked, we don't have much of a front garden and for people who want character in a older home then you won't get that but it's was no brainer for us.

There have been some very generalised comments about new built in recent pages with bizzare comments like new built are bought by foreigners, no services around and I just wanted to offer my 2 cents that there are beautiful new builds around with very little if any of cons been mentioned here. The biggest new built experts on here seem to be the people who dont in them

The_Conductor · 25-08-2019 7:15pm

The fact of the matter is the HTB scheme is underpinning the new market. Secondhand property has to compete with the salient fact that a prospective first time buyer has at least 60k more in their hands (possibly more) being the HTB x the earning's multiple for any given prospective purchaser. Add the fact that FTBs get preferential deposit requirements- and its a near miracle that its possible to sell second hand property (unless the property is such that it blows the new properties in a given locality out of the water).

The Construction Federation (Tom Parlon and friends) put out a statement that they could survive with the HTB limits being reduced from the current level of 500k (to 400k) but are more circumspect about a proposal to ringfence 50% of all HTB applicants to new properties valued at 200k or less. The fact of the matter is- the HTB scheme accounts for a subsidy for middle income earners- over 20% of all disbursements are for property valued at over 400k, whereas those who are worse off in society (according to the Minister) who are in the market for a first time property valued at 200k or lower- make up only 11% of applicants.

The writing is clearly on the wall for the HTB scheme- it will be reshaped- probably to target lower value property better- while simultaneously removing property over 400k from the scheme. The fact that the CIF issued a statement advising they could live with the limit being reduced to 400k- would seem to draw a fresh line in the sand, whether the Minister goes further or not (he probably won't) remains to be seen.

The key feature of the market at the moment- both the new and the secondhand markets- is the length of time to sell property is increasing across the board- and the numbers of people at viewings or open days- has fallen off a cliff. We are in rarefied air, and desperately running to stand still.

Speaking of Brexit and other external factors- simply is trying to find a scapegoat for what is currently happening- the market has hit turbulence- in Dublin its defacto stalled- whether it manages to thread water at current levels or not- remains to be seen. Also- the rest of the country hasn't caught up with the turbulence in Dublin (yet)- however, the writing is on the wall.........

riclad · 25-08-2019 7:22pm

I think the new build scheme should be changed to have a limit,
it cannot be used for a house that has a price over 370k.
If someone can afford to borrow 400k, let them look at older house,s ,
or just go without a grant.

riddles · 25-08-2019 7:23pm

Ginger83 wrote: »

I wouldn't envy anyone who paid 400k for a house.

Too right crazy money

awec · 25-08-2019 7:29pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The fact of the matter is the HTB scheme is underpinning the new market. Secondhand property has to compete with the salient fact that a prospective first time buyer has at least 60k more in their hands (possibly more) being the HTB x the earning's multiple for any given prospective purchaser. Add the fact that FTBs get preferential deposit requirements- and its a near miracle that its possible to sell second hand property (unless the property is such that it blows the new properties in a given locality out of the water).

The Construction Federation (Tom Parlon and friends) put out a statement that they could survive with the HTB limits being reduced from the current level of 500k (to 400k) but are more circumspect about a proposal to ringfence 50% of all HTB applicants to new properties valued at 200k or less. The fact of the matter is- the HTB scheme accounts for a subsidy for middle income earners- over 20% of all disbursements are for property valued at over 400k, whereas those who are worse off in society (according to the Minister) who are in the market for a first time property valued at 200k or lower- make up only 11% of applicants.

The writing is clearly on the wall for the HTB scheme- it will be reshaped- probably to target lower value property better- while simultaneously removing property over 400k from the scheme. The fact that the CIF issued a statement advising they could live with the limit being reduced to 400k- would seem to draw a fresh line in the sand, whether the Minister goes further or not (he probably won't) remains to be seen.

The key feature of the market at the moment- both the new and the secondhand markets- is the length of time to sell property is increasing across the board- and the numbers of people at viewings or open days- has fallen off a cliff. We are in rarefied air, and desperately running to stand still.

Speaking of Brexit and other external factors- simply is trying to find a scapegoat for what is currently happening- the market has hit turbulence- in Dublin its defacto stalled- whether it manages to thread water at current levels or not- remains to be seen. Also- the rest of the country hasn't caught up with the turbulence in Dublin (yet)- however, the writing is on the wall.........

Middle income earners are not above needing help, they are the people paying the high rents that prevent them from saving deposits.

The_Conductor · 25-08-2019 7:43pm

awec wrote: »

Middle income earners are not above needing help, they are the people paying the high rents that prevent them from saving deposits.

I agree 100% with you- along with renting, if you add 1-2 children into the equation, you could be better off claiming social welfare than working. Ireland is exceptionally expensive for those who have to pay their own way without outside assistance.

Middle income earners- are truly forgotten by society.

awec · 25-08-2019 7:46pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I agree 100% with you- along with renting, if you add 1-2 children into the equation, you could be better off claiming social welfare than working. Ireland is exceptionally expensive for those who have to pay their own way without outside assistance.

Middle income earners- are truly forgotten by society.

The squeezed middle are the ones consistently shafted by politics in Ireland. Nobody has their back.

The HTB must be the first time in a long time that these people saw anything for their taxes.

The_Conductor · 25-08-2019 8:01pm

riclad wrote: »

I think the new build scheme should be changed to have a limit,
it cannot be used for a house that has a price over 370k.
If someone can afford to borrow 400k, let them look at older house,s ,
or just go without a grant.

It does have two limits- a max 'rebate' of 20k and a max house price of 500k.
The current proposal which the Construction Industry Federation have said they 'could live with' would see the max house price that qualifies for HTB being reduced to 400k. Its pretty much a foregone conclusion that this is going to happen- whether there are other changes, remains to be seen.

hmmm · 25-08-2019 8:17pm

It was interesting to see the report in the Indo today that Cherrywood has a gap in funding to deliver infrastructure:
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/cherrywood-facing-severe-delays-over-62m-funding-gap-38432976.html

It was also interesting to see this comment:
"So the shortfall in funding has not yet become an issue. However, if a source of income is not found, the delivery of housing will be delayed. The most obvious source is an increase in future development levies."

More levies, more costs the builders will pass on to purchasers.

One place with lots of existing infrastructure is the city centre. If we would only build a few buildings of moderate height, we wouldn't have to worry about LUAS/Metro or funding new infrastructure.

lawred2 · 25-08-2019 8:32pm

riclad wrote: »

i Think an old house that has a larger garden with walls around it
is a better buy than a new house with a standard garden ,
with a small fence around it.
A new house in an estate with 50 identical house,s around it
is not attractive to me.
I understand an old house may need 20k spent on it to bring it up to modern standards .
All the new house,s seem to be 300k, plus .
if you buy an old house ,20 plus years old, on a street its very unlikely the council will decide
buy 5 houses on the street for the purpose of social housing .
I,m not against social housing , i am reading articles in the papers ,
builders are selling 10-20 per cent of new house,s in estates to the council
as the housing market has slowed down in the last year .
Just go to daft.ie ,put 340k into the search box , see what appears .
i expect a recession in the next 5 years,
Caused by brexit, trade wars, trump, and other factors .
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/upshot/how-the-recession-of-2020-could-happen.html
America seems to be pushing for war with iran, that would have a significant effect on the price of oil .

20k would largely only cover superficial enhancements. Modernisation costs a hell ofa lot more than that

lawred2 · 25-08-2019 8:33pm

awec wrote: »

The squeezed middle are the ones consistently shafted by politics in Ireland. Nobody has their back.

The HTB must be the first time in a long time that these people saw anything for their taxes.

Yeah but it was really only a sop to the CIF.

What would really 'help' the squeezed middle is real and meaningful income tax reform.

Dolbhad · 25-08-2019 8:46pm

bdmc5 wrote: »

I didn't say affordability was only reason people wouldn't go for anew built but maybe it a Dublin thing as new built in our estate have a generous back gardens and no social housing on our access to the estate as its a established estate with a small bit allocated already.

We ended buying in Blackrock in Cork and the 2nd hand 4 bed semis we viewed in the area had lovely gardens but small kitchens, 1 loo and very dated design. They were 40k cheaper (20k after FTB grant). Any of those houses needed well over 80 to 100k to bring to standard of new built but even then they were still 200 to 250 SQ feet smaller.

Of course there are compromises with new builds . We are partially overlooked, we don't have much of a front garden and for people who want character in a older home then you won't get that but it's was no brainer for us.

There have been some very generalised comments about new built in recent pages with bizzare comments like new built are bought by foreigners, no services around and I just wanted to offer my 2 cents that there are beautiful new builds around with very little if any of cons been mentioned here. The biggest new built experts on here seem to be the people who dont in them

I’m not anti new build. It just didn’t suit me - but it wasn’t a case of I can’t afford one as you implied. I think I said in a later post, it’s not that second hand houses are much cheaper/ better value. Sometimes it’s the opposite. So in my list of what’s important, it’s a garden and established area. I don’t mind some work. Some like turn key and being in a young estate when they have young kids is something they like so the age group is current for their children.

But for others like yourself if you don’t mind those cons, you get great pros. And also I think Cork has new builds in good locations that maybe Dublin doesn’t have like Blarney, Blackrock, Ballincollig, Kinsale and Glanmire that have amenities. I think Cork is lucky in the sense that builders have been very smart in the locations they are building. Granted some builders I wouldn’t go near but we have some good ones in Cork to.

bdmc5 · 25-08-2019 8:51pm

riddles wrote: »

Too right crazy money

It is indeed alot of money but we we are fortunate to be able afford it comfortably so its not crazy money to us. Blackrock is a one of most sought areas in as location 2 mins from water and so central to everything but very quiet at night.

They are building the last final phase at the end of estate as 3 bed semi are priced at the same as the 4 bed we bought 18 months ago!! The 3 floor 5 bed semi are nearly 600k and all sold off the plans!!

Property Market 2019

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