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Air BnB [and other platforms] to be effectively outlawed in high demand areas

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Comments

  • Options
    #1382
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Being in arrears is different, fining someone for smoking on a balcony or Airbnb will not have consequences when selling.

    How is it different? You owe the MC money either way.

    Seems fairly straightforward to enforce. Deduct the fine from any paid fees. If in arrears, start to remove services until they have the decency to pay up. If they continue to flout the law, create documentation and pass it on to the relevant authorities.


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    #1383
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    How is it different?

    You owe the MC money either way.

    Section 18(10) of the Multi-Unit Developments Act 2011 places an obligation on you as an owner to pay your management fees. It does not apply the same obligation to pay fines imposed at the discretion of the MC.


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    #1384
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Section 18(10) of the Multi-Unit Developments Act 2011 places an obligation on you as an owner to pay your management fees. It does not apply the same obligation to pay fines imposed at the discretion of the MC.

    Is there a law against deducting unpaid fines from management fee payments?

    Genuine question.


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    #1385
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    awec wrote: »
    Of course it can, you really do exist in your own little bubble don't you? Being in arrears with the management company can have all sorts of consequences, just recently someone on here was posting how they lost access to the car park.

    And good luck ever selling a property if you're in arrears with the management company.

    Being in arrears on management fee is totally different.

    They simply don’t have the power or the authority to issue, enforce or collect fines.


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    #1386
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    Is there a law against deducting unpaid fines from management fee payments?

    Genuine question.

    An owner will be able to prove they paid the MC fees, you would have to prove that you had a right to deduct a discretionary fine from that.


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    #1387
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Dav010 wrote: »
    An owner will be able to prove they paid the MC fees, you would have to prove that you had a right to deduct a discretionary fine from that.

    Shame.

    I guess the best approach then is non-monetary action, as well as ensuring the individuals who are breaking the law are brought to the attention of the relevant authorities.

    It will get better over time. A few will be made an example of, enforcement will step up.


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    #1388
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    awec wrote: »
    Shame.

    I guess the best approach then is non-monetary action, as well as ensuring the individuals who are breaking the law are brought to the attention of the relevant authorities.

    It will get better over time. A few will be made an example of, enforcement will step up.

    What non monetary action is there against owners in blocks where Airbnb is banned by the MC though? Of course you can bring the owner/tenant to the attention of the CoCo, but they still have an awful lot to do to enforce the legislation.


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    #1389
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    I honestly think a lot of people are of the mentality that apartments are short-term accommodation so who cares? But they aren’t that for a lot of people and if management company rules were flouted by everyone, the complex would quickly suffer. There’s a bit of an honour system with management company rules but, as ever, there’s always a few who don’t think that rules apply to them so why honour them? It’s charming.


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    #1390
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    It really feels like the narrative shifted from "AirBnB doesn't ever bother the neighbours" to "sure who cares if the neighbours want me to stop cause what can they do to force me" once a real world example of the problems came along. I'd hope most people would have the decency to voluntarily stop if they heard it was having a negative effect on peoples lives, but maybe not.


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    #1391
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    xckjoo wrote: »
    It really feels like the narrative shifted from "AirBnB doesn't ever bother the neighbours" to "sure who cares if the neighbours want me to stop cause what can they do to force me" once a real world example of the problems came along. I'd hope most people would have the decency to voluntarily stop if they heard it was having a negative effect on peoples lives, but maybe not.

    So should a landlord stop renting his property because they had a long term tenant who is a nuisance to neighbours?

    There isn’t a shred of evidence that airbnb is causing any significant issues with neighbours compared to long term lets


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    #1392
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    So should a landlord stop renting his property because they had a long term tenant who is a nuisance to neighbours?

    There isn’t a shred of evidence that airbnb is causing any significant issues with neighbours compared to long term lets

    Again with “Look at that big distraction over there!”.

    Problem tenants should also be complained about too. And?


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    #1393
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    So should a landlord stop renting his property because they had a long term tenant who is a nuisance to neighbours?

    There isn’t a shred of evidence that airbnb is causing any significant issues with neighbours compared to long term lets

    That's a weak argument for something nobody is suggesting. I'm fully in favour of improvements in landlords abilities to remove problem tenants.
    On the second point, you also haven't provided a shred of evidence that long term lets are causing significantly more issues to neighbours than AirBnB.


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    #1394
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    xckjoo wrote: »
    That's a weak argument for something nobody is suggesting. I'm fully in favour of improvements in landlords abilities to remove problem tenants.
    On the second point, you also haven't provided a shred of evidence that long term lets are causing significantly more issues to neighbours than AirBnB.

    I would think the percentage of both Airbnb and tenants causing problems for neighbours is negligible, but the huge difference is that in the extremely rare instances when it does happen, guests leave on Sunday, tenants stay indefinitely.

    The RTB site is a pretty good resource for reading about anti social tenants and third party complaints. Is there similar evidence of Airbnb complaints?

    In relation to the other poster with the “look at the distraction over there”, you were the poster who stated that you support an agenda for peaceful enjoyment (Graham, look back, it is really there “ People have a right to peaceful enjoyment of their home. An agenda I’m happy to get behind“) when asked in relation to lets, the very reason for the Airbnb legislation was to try and increase supply in the rental sector, it’s a bit silly then not to understand that caparisons will be made between the two, seen as they are so closely linked. You are concerned about peaceful enjoyment of one, but don’t want mention of the other, even though disruptive tenants can be there far longer.


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    #1395
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,184 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    awec wrote: »
    Is there a law against deducting unpaid fines from management fee payments?

    Genuine question.

    No private body has the ability to impose unilateral fines!


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    #1396
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    So should a landlord stop renting his property because they had a long term tenant who is a nuisance to neighbours?

    There isn’t a shred of evidence that airbnb is causing any significant issues with neighbours compared to long term lets

    If your long term Tenants were being a**holes then as a landlord you should sort it out, talk to the tenants or get new tenants.

    AirBNB suits the landlord for profit.
    AirBNB does not suit your neighbors.

    There's plenty of evidence, in the Netherlands its banned in nearly all apartment buildings, Germany as well.

    In NL the reasons are usually to do with noise, disruption and in general people don't want to have to live next to a place where they won't have neighbors.

    Also if they are selling their property an AirBNB next door will put off buyers, potentially reducing the offer they could get on your property.

    In Spain you need to have a license and follow the same regulations as a B&B.

    I think also the mentality, in Germany, NL, Spain it's more normal to rent than to buy and generally a much nicer and affordable affair than in Ireland.

    Ireland is pretty much buy or live in poor quality accomodation with very high rent.

    If you think your neighbors like you using your property as a makeshift B&B, think again.

    Stay in a short term rental property in Berlin, guarantee the host will tell you some mini story to give neighbors in case they question you. :pac:


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    #1397
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    redcup342 wrote: »
    If your long term Tenants were being a**holes then as a landlord you should sort it out, talk to the tenants or get new tenants.

    AirBNB suits the landlord for profit.
    AirBNB does not suit your neighbors.

    Plenty of LLs won't care about their tenants being assholes and even if they do it will be close to impossible to get rid of long term tenants. Bad airbnb guests will have bad ratings and will be avoided by hosts.

    redcup342 wrote: »
    I think also the mentality, in Germany, NL, Spain it's more normal to rent than to buy and generally a much nicer and affordable affair than in Ireland.

    Ireland is pretty much buy or live in poor quality accomodation with very high rent.

    This myth that everyone rents in europe really annoys me, its just not true.

    Spain has higher home ownership than Ireland and Netherlands is pretty much the same as here percent wise.

    Germany is a total outlier due to WW2 etc and even at that ownership is over 50%


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    #1398
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    redcup342 wrote: »
    If your long term Tenants were being a**holes then as a landlord you should sort it out, talk to the tenants or get new tenants.

    Simple as that, you understand that here it can take over 12 months to evict a tenant?


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    #1399
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    Plenty of LLs won't care about their tenants being assholes and even if they do it will be close to impossible to get rid of long term tenants. Bad airbnb guests will have bad ratings and will not avoided by hosts.




    This myth that everyone rents in europe really annoys me, its just not true.

    Spain has higher home ownership than Ireland and Netherlands is pretty much the same as here percent wise.

    Germany is a total outlier due to WW2 etc and even at that ownership is over 50%

    I guess Ireland is not in Europe then :pac:

    Your point doesn't make any sense though, just because there are landlords that don't care what their tenants do there are plenty that do and deal with issues with their tenants.

    And it is completely normal to rent in NL and DE, i've lived between the two for the past 14 years and owned property in NL and been an AirBNB host as well.

    In Ireland its seen as "dead money" that's not the case here.
    Dav010 wrote: »
    Simple as that, you understand that here it can take over 12 months to evict a tenant?

    Yes I'm aware and that's the landlords problem to sort out if eviction is needed.

    That's a last resort though.


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    #1400
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    redcup342 wrote: »
    I guess Ireland is not in Europe then :pac:

    Your point doesn't make any sense though, just because there are landlords that don't care what their tenants do there are plenty that do and deal with issues with their tenants.

    And it is completely normal to rent in NL and DE, i've lived between the two for the past 14 years and owned property in NL and been an AirBNB host as well.

    In Ireland its seen as "dead money" that's not the case here.

    If the tenant is paying rent on time and doesn’t bother the LL, some might not give a s**t about the neighbours whom they may not know. In that case, it’s the neighbours problem.


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    #1401
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    redcup342 wrote: »
    I guess Ireland is not in Europe then :pac:

    Your point doesn't make any sense though, just because there are landlords that don't care what their tenants do there are plenty that do and deal with issues with their tenants.

    And it is completely normal to rent in NL and DE, i've lived between the two for the past 14 years and owned property in NL and been an AirBNB host as well.

    In Ireland its seen as "dead money" that's not the case here.

    I was implied that I meant continental europe.

    There is no denying that rent is dead money though, so in this way it's the Irish who are correct seeing it this way if it's not seen this way elsewhere (though I'm sure it is by plenty of people in every other country in Europe too).


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    #1402
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm sure plenty of airbnb's are well run and cause little to no disruption to neighbours.

    I live beside a terrible one, its a 3 bedroomed terrace house that advertises letting to 10 people but often has more. There is a huge difference between airbnb's that are catering to small numbers of tourists and those that are seeking to attract large groups.

    The owner of the property is aware that it is a full time airbnb but has lied to the council "who will investigate in the new year once they have recruited the requisite personnel". The owner is getting a massively increased rent while I am being awoken at 4am by a stag party who can't get in next door and want to use my toilet, when I don't let them they piss in next doors garden. I don't call the Guards because I would be calling at least once a week, I have only called once when there was a bareknuckle fight in the back garden next door.

    I am not against airbnb, my brother lives beside one that is owner occupied (very occasionally fully let) and he has never had any problems but I am convinced that ones like the one I live beside will take down all whole house/apartment airbnbs even if they aren't problematic.

    I hope it will be legal action that brings them down but worry that it will be a death due to the lack of fire safety and overcrowding in these properties that will make the councils properly investigate and enforce this.


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    #1403
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    As of today, 17 of the 18 LAs in RPZs have hired no staff to help enforce regs on short lets. I don’t think Hosts will be sweating it.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-how-is-the-clampdown-on-airbnb-style-lettings-working-1.4161257?mode=amp


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    #1404
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    am I correct in thinking that short term lets are 14 days or less and anything longer falls under the RTB? so a landlord who doesn't want long term tenants can register as many 15 day stays as they like?


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    #1405
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    am I correct in thinking that short term lets are 14 days or less and anything longer falls under the RTB? so a landlord who doesn't want long term tenants can register as many 15 day stays as they like?
    No you're not.


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    #1406
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    No you're not.

    Which?
    Not correct it's 14 days or less at a time or a landlord can register any length of stay with the rtb?


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    #1407
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    Which?
    Not correct it's 14 days or less at a time or a landlord can register any length of stay with the rtb?

    You can do short term lets of over 14 days under the new rules but you don't have to register with the RTB etc as they are still short term lets.


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    #1408
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Carlos Slow Traitor wrote: »
    You can do short term lets of over 14 days under the new rules but you don't have to register with the RTB etc as they are still short term lets.

    Thanks nox, is that for home sharing in ppr? I was wondering about places that are full lets. So many landlords saying they don't want to do long lettings for different reasons & want to do short lets but the council won't give planning permission. So if it's a let of 15days just register them with rtb.
    Edit: more paperwork tbf.
    is there anything to stop a landlord doing that - can't a landlord register tenants that come & go. Is there a regulation that a tenancy must be a certain length of time?


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    #1409
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    is there anything to stop a landlord doing that - can't a landlord register tenants that come & go. Is there a regulation that a tenancy must be a certain length of time?

    :confused:

    You're trying to avoid the obligations of the residential tenancies act by registering tenancies?


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    #1410
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    Thanks nox, is that for home sharing in ppr? I was wondering about places that are full lets. So many landlords saying they don't want to do long lettings for different reasons & want to do short lets but the council won't give planning permission. So if it's a let of 15days just register them with rtb.
    Edit: more paperwork tbf.
    is there anything to stop a landlord doing that - can't a landlord register tenants that come & go. Is there a regulation that a tenancy must be a certain length of time?

    If you do a 15 day let in a house that is not your PPR it is legally allowed within the new rules and there is no obligation to register with the RTB.


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    #1411
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As of today, 17 of the 18 LAs in RPZs have hired no staff to help enforce regs on short lets. I don’t think Hosts will be sweating it.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-how-is-the-clampdown-on-airbnb-style-lettings-working-1.4161257?mode=amp

    That's not how I read it....
    Fianna Fáil also referred to a Freedom of Information request. It didn’t share the full FoI response, but did send a press release based on it from November last year. The press release claimed no additional staff were in place in 17 of 18 local authorities which contain rent pressure zones.

    and later in the article
    Dublin City Council has filled nine of 12 positions


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