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property tax on derelict house??

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  • 29-06-2018 2:30am
    #1
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭


    hi

    my late parents old house, which is bang in the middle of a farm owned by my brother in law, was left to me and my 2 siblings about 5 years ago . no will left, so house went to us (long storey)

    we've done nothing with the house since. we live a few hours drive away from it. it's run down and unhabitable at present. no one has lived in the house with 10 years . electricity and water still connected . also, a few sheds used on my brother in laws farm are powered from the house . . . and he pays the esb Bill. we don't plan on selling the house . worth nothing to no one anyway as it's in the middle of a farm. and my brother in law has no interest in it. saying that, it's a fine big farm house of sound structure. sentimental value also - been in the family with 5 generations.

    my query is . . . What's the storey with the property tax for this house? does it need to be paid?. we've heard nothing about it. if it's not paid, what will happen when ever the house is passed on, to who ever ??? what's the best thing to do with this house to avoid property tax trouble in the future.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    happywithlife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/is-your-property-liable-lpt/is-your-property-uninhabitable.aspx

    Revenue says it must be both unsuitable AND uninhabitated on date tax is due


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    #3
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭abnormalnorman


    happywithlife wrote: »
    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/is-your-property-liable-lpt/is-your-property-uninhabitable.aspx

    Revenue says it must be both unsuitable AND uninhabitated on date tax is due


    Well we haven't heard anything from revenue. how do we prove it to be unsuitable and unhabitable?


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    #4
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    abnormalnorman wrote: »
    Well we haven't heard anything from revenue. how do we prove it to be unsuitable and unhabitable?

    Why would you expect to hear something from Revenue? If the property is liable for tax, its up to you to register/assess it.

    That said, the tax, if liable, is payable on the valuation as at the original valuation date. The house you're describing would have had a very low market value at that time so the mid point for the 0-100,000 valuation range would apply. That computes to a €90 charge p.a. adjusted by any local council adjustment factor since 2015.


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    #5
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    For the purposes of Local Property Tax- the LPT date is the 1st July 2013- i.e. it was at a time of deflated property prices.
    For the purposes of determining habitability- normally an electricity supply turned on to a dwelling is deemed a qualifying factor.
    Other taxes (The 100 Euro Household charge which came in in 2011 for example)- would presumably be due to be paid- and must be discharged before the property can be disposed of.

    The house is sound- and has electricity and running water- I'm not entirely sure how or why you imagine its somehow exempt from property tax. It doesn't have to have someone living in it- to incur a liability- and keeping electricity and water to the property- is a sign that the property *is* habitable, regardless of whether, or not, someone is living in it.

    In a situation like this- where a property has become landbound (in this instance by your brother-in-law's farm)- the normal practice would be for the brother-in-law to offer to buy out the interest you have in the property (as obviously it is not in their interest that you dispose of the property to a third party).

    Also- if your brother in law has connected up an electricity supply to the dwelling, and is the sole person using the dwelling (which would appear to be the case) and is not paying at least a token rent for the property- he/she could argue that they are entitled to adverse possession of the property- which is something you need to talk to a solicitor about- unless of course you're happy to hand the property over to the brother-in-law?

    Yes- you owe property tax. And for good measure- your brother-in-law is well on his way to claiming adverse possession of the property. Get proper advice- if you want to keep your interest in the property.


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    #6
    abnormalnorman
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭abnormalnorman


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    For the purposes of Local Property Tax- the LPT date is the 1st July 2013- i.e. it was at a time of deflated property prices.
    For the purposes of determining habitability- normally an electricity supply turned on to a dwelling is deemed a qualifying factor.
    Other taxes (The 100 Euro Household charge which came in in 2011 for example)- would presumably be due to be paid- and must be discharged before the property can be disposed of.

    The house is sound- and has electricity and running water- I'm not entirely sure how or why you imagine its somehow exempt from property tax. It doesn't have to have someone living in it- to incur a liability- and keeping electricity and water to the property- is a sign that the property *is* habitable, regardless of whether, or not, someone is living in it.

    In a situation like this- where a property has become landbound (in this instance by your brother-in-law's farm)- the normal practice would be for the brother-in-law to offer to buy out the interest you have in the property (as obviously it is not in their interest that you dispose of the property to a third party).

    Also- if your brother in law has connected up an electricity supply to the dwelling, and is the sole person using the dwelling (which would appear to be the case) and is not paying at least a token rent for the property- he/she could argue that they are entitled to adverse possession of the property- which is something you need to talk to a solicitor about- unless of course you're happy to hand the property over to the brother-in-law?

    Yes- you owe property tax. And for good measure- your brother-in-law is well on his way to claiming adverse possession of the property. Get proper advice- if you want to keep your interest in the property.


    Thanks for that.

    well the house is damp, no bath/ shower . full of mice and rats. I wouldn't live in it!! And it would fail every building regulation in the book, so not safe to live in. Surely that counts as unhabitable??


    the brother in law did not connect up the electricity , he just now owns a few sheds that were originally run from the old house. I think his milking machine is actually run from the house. so not a small job to disconnect the electricity.

    it doesn't bother him or me if he gets the house or not. it's worth nothing to no one as it's in the middle of an old farm yard. but has sentimental value, and you'd never know who might want to do it up in the future . . .the next generation of the family.

    so, where we are now, if i disconnect the water to the house, and then go to the revenue and say it's been unhabitable for the past 10 years , would that be a starting point?


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    #7
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Good luck with that- you're seriously grasping at straws- the usual measure of habitability- is an active electricity supply.
    Yes- it may be overrun with rodents and need serious remedial work- that however does not mean it is not classified as habitable- just that it needs work.
    I'm sorry- you're seriously grasping at straws here.


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    #8
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Good luck with that- you're seriously grasping at straws- the usual measure of habitability- is an active electricity supply.
    Yes- it may be overrun with rodents and need serious remedial work- that however does not mean it is not classified as habitable- just that it needs work.
    I'm sorry- you're seriously grasping at straws here.

    As OP describes it, it would be condemned if anyone tried to rear children in it. So in that sense, it is uninhabitable. The Revenue rules clearly don't intend that something like that would be taxed as though it was worth 50k.

    I'd say get the brother to move in 20 or so bales of hay or straw and call it a farm building. That's essentially what it is. Then, if ye decided to renovate it in the future, ye could. Just make sure if there's any prospect of that, that ye preserve the structure incl the roof. Otherwise it'll only be fit for knocking.

    Id say its worth trying to get Revenue to accept is as uninhabitable. Sure you've nothing to lose really.


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    abnormalnorman wrote: »
    Well we haven't heard anything from revenue. how do we prove it to be unsuitable and unhabitable?

    I’ve sent you a PM. Hope it helps.


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