College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

pclive · 11-04-2016 1:38pm #1

Public consultation now open:

http://www.dublincity.ie/college-green

cgcsb · 11-04-2016 2:06pm

Backsliding on the taxi issue, how predictable.

MJohnston · 11-04-2016 2:41pm

pclive wrote: »

Public consultation now open:

http://www.dublincity.ie/college-green

Is there any need for private cars to be able to travel east on Dame Street from Parliament Street under this plan? I ask, because that is going to be a very difficult left turn for buses from S Georges St.

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 2:42pm

Just an aside, but does anyone know why the Westbound buses (Lucan and beyond) are not ALREADY routed down Tara Street and Burgh Quay?

Westmoreland Street is like a bus depot at the moment, mad it is. And moving those Westbound buses would surely help.

Get us ready for the OFF (i.e. the real thing!).

MJohnston · 11-04-2016 2:44pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just an aside, but does anyone know why the Westbound buses (Lucan and beyond) are not ALREADY routed down Tara Street and Burgh Quay?

Westmoreland Street is like a bus depot at the moment, mad it is. And moving those Westbound buses would surely help.

Get us ready for the OFF (i.e. the real thing!).

I'd imagine Tara Street to Burgh Quay turn is nearly impossible for most buses in rush hour traffic.

LXFlyer · 11-04-2016 2:50pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Is there any need for private cars to be able to travel east on Dame Street from Parliament Street under this plan? I ask, because that is going to be a very difficult left turn for buses from S Georges St.

Accessing car parks?

A retreated stop line on Dame St would be needed.

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 2:51pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I'd imagine Tara Street to Burgh Quay turn is nearly impossible for most buses in rush hour traffic.

Is that because of the light sequence or the volume of car traffic? A bus lane could be introduced on Tara Street and Burgh Quay surely. I think that might be on the cards anyway with the new traffic layout (no LHT onto Aston Quay).

Could be tried out for a while anyway, couldn't be any worse that the free for all on Westmoreland Street really.

LXFlyer · 11-04-2016 2:51pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just an aside, but does anyone know why the Westbound buses (Lucan and beyond) are not ALREADY routed down Tara Street and Burgh Quay?

Westmoreland Street is like a bus depot at the moment, mad it is. And moving those Westbound buses would surely help.

Get us ready for the OFF (i.e. the real thing!).

No bus priority measures on Tara St?

cgcsb · 11-04-2016 2:53pm

A bus lane on Tara Street would certainly help things along.

The plan includes a left turn for buses from south quays onto Parliament st. That'll be a tight turn.

Also turning onto parliament st from either Dame or Lord Edward St could be a challenge considering the gradient involved.

Overall it's a decent solution, assuming that Bachelor's Walk, George's st and Burgh Quay have car bans that are actually enforced with hefty fines enforced through cameras and license plate recognition.

MJohnston · 11-04-2016 3:02pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is that because of the light sequence or the volume of car traffic? A bus lane could be introduced on Tara Street and Burgh Quay surely. I think that might be on the cards anyway with the new traffic layout (no LHT onto Aston Quay).

Could be tried out for a while anyway, couldn't be any worse that the free for all on Westmoreland Street really.

There's already a bus lane on Burgh Quay (mostly), but have a look at the layout:

What you'll get at rush hour is one of two things:

1. Lots of cars in the two regular lanes sort of but not really completely in the yellow box which would make the tight turn really difficult (but not impossible) for a bus while the cars are there (and they'd probably miss the green phase by the time the cars clear out).
2. Lots of coaches coming straight down the quays and filling up that bus lane (very quickly too thanks to the two traffic light junctions up ahead).

Yes, this will and can work with the broader traffic plan being implemented and freeing up Burgh Quay for PT only, but you were specifically why this doesn't happen *now*, and I think this is why.

hmmm · 11-04-2016 3:04pm

It'd be great if we could declutter the place - the image on pg 7 of the presentation sums it up.

Where is that Westmoreland cycle track going? Hopefully it isn't stealing pedestrian space, there isn't enough as it is. And how do people access bus stops with a cycle lane in the way?

In general I'm all for a bold vision which this seems to be.

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 3:05pm

Just heard something like an "official announcement" about bus and car traffic movements to facilitate the Plaza. That was on the 3 o'c news on RTE1 just now. Headlines mostly, so maybe it will be teased out more on the Drivetime shows later?

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 3:08pm

MJohnston wrote: »

There's already a bus lane on Burgh Quay (mostly), but have a look at the layout:

What you'll get at rush hour is one of two things:

1. Lots of cars in the two regular lanes sort of but not really completely in the yellow box which would make the tight turn really difficult (but not impossible) for a bus while the cars are there (and they'd probably miss the green phase by the time the cars clear out).
2. Lots of coaches coming straight down the quays and filling up that bus lane (very quickly too thanks to the two traffic light junctions up ahead).

Yes, this will and can work with the broader traffic plan being implemented and freeing up Burgh Quay for PT only, but you were specifically why this doesn't happen *now*, and I think this is why.

Thanks for the pic, makes it clearer alright.

I just can't see why the cars cannot be moved to the right before the junction there. Then a bus lane could exist all the way from Tara St to Burgh Quay.

Car restrictions will help.

MJohnston · 11-04-2016 3:12pm

hmmm wrote: »

Where is that Westmoreland cycle track going? Hopefully it isn't stealing pedestrian space, there isn't enough as it is. And how do people access bus stops with a cycle lane in the way?

As a cyclist, I'd love to know too, because I hate the idea of having to pass a bunch of bus passengers in some fudged cycle lane (which tends to happen a lot in Dublin).

Also, this makes no sense to me:

How is that 14 stop (and the 15s perhaps too) not going to block the Luas?

Ciaran_B · 11-04-2016 3:40pm

cgcsb wrote: »

A bus lane on Tara Street would certainly help things along.

The plan includes a left turn for buses from south quays onto Parliament st. That'll be a tight turn.

Also turning onto parliament st from either Dame or Lord Edward St could be a challenge considering the gradient involved.

Overall it's a decent solution, assuming that Bachelor's Walk, George's st and Burgh Quay have car bans that are actually enforced with hefty fines enforced through cameras and license plate recognition.

Up to a few years ago there was a left turn from the quays onto Parliament St. I wonder what buses will be routed down it now?

LXFlyer · 11-04-2016 3:56pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just heard something like an "official announcement" about bus and car traffic movements to facilitate the Plaza. That was on the 3 o'c news on RTE1 just now. Headlines mostly, so maybe it will be teased out more on the Drivetime shows later?

Ciaran_B wrote: »

Up to a few years ago there was a left turn from the quays onto Parliament St. I wonder what buses will be routed down it now?

The consultation document tells you everything you need to know in detail.

There is nothing more to "tease out".

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 4:27pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The consultation document tells you everything you need to know in detail.

There is nothing more to "tease out".

There is a lot to tease out I think.

For those who may not have access to the consultation document. Is it being delivered to every door in Dublin?

Boulevardier · 11-04-2016 4:48pm

I have looked at bus route maps on the consultation document, and for it to have any chance of working, Bachelor's walk would have to become bus only. Otherwise, utter chaos awaits.

cgcsb · 11-04-2016 4:49pm

Ciaran_B wrote: »

Up to a few years ago there was a left turn from the quays onto Parliament St. I wonder what buses will be routed down it now?

Did any double decker Dublin Buses use it?

cgcsb · 11-04-2016 4:50pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There is a lot to tease out I think.

For those who may not have access to the consultation document. Is it being delivered to every door in Dublin?

It's linked in the OP!

MJohnston · 11-04-2016 4:50pm

Boulevardier wrote: »

I have looked at bus route maps on the consultation document, and for it to have any chance of working, Bachelor's walk would have to become bus only. Otherwise, utter chaos awaits.

Those streets (marked 7-10 on the Transport Measures map) that say "Additional bus priority measures" are planned to be 'bus only' (whether that means taxis or not, I don't know), I don't know why they're being coy about the language in this document.

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 4:52pm

cgcsb wrote: »

It's linked in the OP!

Thanks, I know that.

But I was referring more to those who would not have internet access. And despite what we think, that is a fair few people who use PT in Dublin.

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 4:56pm

Being discussed on Newstalk now. Can be podcasted (as we know!)

A lot of people cannot do this, or access the DCC website. For one reason or another though. That has to be acknowledged too.

We are fine, but not everyone else is who might use these services. Could come as a big surprise!

Devilman40k · 11-04-2016 4:58pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Did any double decker Dublin Buses use it?

Yes, I can remember all Tallaght routes using that left turn up to the mid 1990's they were all double decker

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 4:59pm

Deedsie wrote: »

It's available in Dublin City council offices as far as I know.

Yes, I know this too. But not everyone who uses transport in DCC (without access to internet) will think of going to Wood Quay either.

That is why other media talking about this is so important. And it is good for everyone too.

cgcsb · 11-04-2016 5:05pm

Devilman40k wrote: »

Yes, I can remember all Tallaght routes using that left turn up to the mid 1990's they were all double decker

Interesting, must have been a tight turning circle. I suppose if buses can do the Westmoreland St-Aston quay then why not.

cgcsb · 11-04-2016 5:06pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Yes, I know this too. But not everyone who uses transport in DCC (without access to internet) will think of going to Wood Quay either.

That is why other media talking about this is so important. And it is good for everyone too.

It is on RTÉ news website so I assume it will feature on the news this evening and possibly the papers tomorrow.

Spanish Eyes · 11-04-2016 5:08pm

cgcsb wrote: »

It is on RTÉ news website so I assume it will feature on the news this evening and possibly the papers tomorrow.

That is what I meant.

All media need to be talking about this! Thanks.

Devilman40k · 11-04-2016 5:08pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Interesting, must have been a tight turning circle. I suppose if buses can do the Westmoreland St-Aston quay then why not.

if they could manage the left turn onto Ardee St from the Coombe (before the construction of St Lukes Avenue ) they will have no problems with the turn onto Parliament St

Calina · 11-04-2016 5:14pm

Devilman40k wrote: »

if they could manage the left turn onto Ardee St from the Coombe (before the construction of St Lukes Avenue ) they will have no problems with the turn onto Parliament St

Thought the current buses were wider. Could that have an impact on turning circle?

Pete_Cavan · 11-04-2016 5:29pm

They seem to not be providing stops for a lot of bus routes on Westmoreland Street, is that correct? 11, 38, 38a, 38b, 46a, 140, 7b, 7d, 46e, 37, 39, 39a and 70 are all shown as travelling north along WML Street yet no stops are shown. I presume the 14, 15, 15a, 15b will be stopping on WML Street rather in the Luas track in front of Trinity?

I am not convinced Parliament Street will be able to handle all those bus routes. It will see a lot of bus movements in both directions and has already been mentioned, there are some tight turns for the buses to manoeuvre. If there are no stops, would it be completely mad for buses to drive on the right hand side on Parliament Street to give a better angle for turning left?

Does the cycle lane continue through the plaza or does it end at it? Cycle routes definitely need to be identified as to where they go to/come from.

The plan should also incorporate Westmoreland Street. Are we getting this plan?;

If so, you can see cycle lanes in both directions between the Luas track and the road. This would require cyclists and buses to cross over (as the cycle lane is west of buses at College Green plaza but is east of them in the above image), but this is probably a better solution than having a cycle lane to the left of buses pulling in.

I would also like to see the junction of College Street and WML Street moved slightly further south. This would mean that the triangular island can be connected to the footpath in front of AIB and becomes a more useful public space. There would be good views of the portico of Bank of Ireland from there, it would be a bright, sunny spot and would be a nicer location for the Thomas Moore monument which was there previously.

College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

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