New home sale in Belmont, Stepaside, Dublin 18

Pom101 · 25-11-2013 7:45pm

Hi All,

We viewed and placed the booking deposit on one of the phase 1 houses in mid-august, closing the contracts has become a nightmare.

There are several contractual issues with the houses in Belmont, Stepaside.

1. The vendors solicitors made several errors when formulating the contracts - my solicitors had over 20 issues / queries but the main, most worrying, aspects are the land registration and a potential charge against the land from AIB bank.

2. The land registration issue was basically(my understanding) a failure of the vendors solicitor to register the title deeds and zoning of the development correctly (this is the main point but there were several other problems) - the developers solicitor has reapplied have the land registry and, the last I heard, it has gone to the mapping department - how long this takes to sort out is anyone's guess!!!

3. I don't fully understand this one but apparently there is an outstanding charge against the land for monies owed to AIB, basically AIB could sometime in the future seek recovery of this charge. Who would have to pay this charge is anyone's guess, my guess is that they will seek the monies from whoever owns the house - this will not be the developer.

The vendors solicitor is unable to provide proof that the AIB charge has been discharged by NAMA and this is a big problem, as it may prevent your bank from releasing the mortgage to you.

I drove past the development this evening and the gates are still locked - no one is at home.

Is anyone else finding themselves in the same situation?

have any one of you actually closed the deal?

_Kaiser_ · 25-11-2013 11:05pm

Folks, it's only a house and by all accounts one that comes with all sorts of issues so let's review what we know:

- These houses have been put up in a very short time and seem to suffer a poor layout/quality as a result
- No apparent thought to how the surrounding infrastructure and facilities (roads, shops etc) will cope with the sudden addition of 200/300 more families
- Apparent contractual issues and no straight answers
- And most damning of all possibly, the same "celtic tiger" mindset from those selling them that got us into the whole mess in the first place

At the end of the day, I have nothing to win/lose here personally, and I get that people want to believe it'll all work out and that they'll get their house but try and stand back and look at it objectively - do you REALLY want to take the risk (and the debt) with so many warning flags??

McDook · 26-11-2013 12:05am

Jolisa94 wrote: »

Which house are you buying Zaza? We saw a new planning permission notice dated 19/11/13, you can see it on the dlrcoco site http://planning.dlrcoco.ie ID nr D13A/0611

McDook, you mentioned the halting site in a previous post, what else made you rethink your decision?

Edit .. Probably not fair to be influencing anyone with my stories at this stage so editing out what I posted.

The most important thing you can do is ask your solicitor "If you were in the market for a house and you liked this one, would you go ahead given what you have found out?" And go with their answer.

Just make sure you are 100% happy. And remember, dont ever believe a developer or salesman when they tell you something will be done in the future (after they have your money).

Jolisa94 · 26-11-2013 10:45am

Learnt a long time ago not to trust promises made by sales people, estate agents and builders !!
At the end of the day we will listen to our solicitor’s opinion and, if he advises us against going ahead, then that’s what we will do.
In the meantime I think it’s useful to share information with other people in the same boat.

NewRunnerRoy · 26-11-2013 1:51pm

Has anyone completed yet? I have been told by the estate agents that the majority of properties in the estate where I have my deposit have completed and people were due to be move in this month. I have not been up to the development in a while but by the sounds of things there is still quite a bit to go before they are ready for this.

We will not be signing any contracts before all the issues are resolved with satisfactory results. Even if we wanted to proceed our solicitor has said that he would not sign off on the contracts until the land registration and the possible AIB charge issue has been resolved. The EA advised that it may be February 2014 by the time that the land registration issues are resolved...... I'm assuming that he is giving me a best case scenario here so it could potentially be a much later date.

You can only assume that the rest of the building will be held up due to these issues as I would imagine that the sales in phases 1 and 2 were due to finance the ongoing development. With so few people completing (if any) where are they going to get the funding? I know that the builders have secured private financing to date so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Realistically if the vendors solicitors start pushing the issue and try to get people to sign contracts asap with all these issues outstanding what will be the response? I know for us, as it would be for a large amount of others, would be to walk away. Then what do they do? I'm sure they could source new buyers but these will soon see the same issues I am currently faced with and the cycle continues.

Lillian123 · 26-11-2013 2:23pm

Jolisa94,

I tried to access that planning permission but there does not seem to be any documents uploaded. Have you seen the plans? How can they make changes to the houses we have already put a deposit on. We still haven't received our contracts yet, but by the sounds of other peoples experience there is lots of problems with the contract. I hope nobody signs before the problems are sorted out with the Title.

Thanks everyone for all your input on this thread

ruby16 · 26-11-2013 2:27pm

NewRunnerRoy

Hi,

Can you confirm who in the estate agents advised about the land registry issue may not be sorted until Feb 2014. They advised me that people should be moving in this month but been past the property a few times and its still all closed up.

Thanks

ruby16 · 26-11-2013 2:35pm

NewRunnerRoy

Thanks for the information.

Jolisa94 · 26-11-2013 2:51pm

Hi Lillian,

at the moment you can only see the notice as it appears on site - it takes about a month for the supporting documentation to be uploaded. The planning permission is dated 19/11 so I would expect to see the documents around mid December.

I think they may be available if you go into the county council office yourself, but maybe call them first to be sure.

I'm not sure of the background to this, but I would say that the most likely explaination is that they saw the layout of some of the houses in the first phase was not popular and decided to change it, possibly before getting the planning permission to go ahead with it.

Here's an extract:
Planning permission is sought for amendments to existing permission D10A/0440 (ABP Ref. PL06D.239332) for the addition of floor area to permitted rear extensions and changes to the rear elevations of the following permitted 37 no. residential units in Phases 4 to 7 of Sector 1: Nos. 11-24 Belmont Drive; Nos. 1,2,5,6,7,12 & 14 Blackglen Heath; nos. 1-4, and 8-11 Alderman Road; and nos. 1-8 Cotter Close. The permitted units comprise house types - B1 and 2 (3-bed, 2-storey), C (3-bed, 2-storey) and L (4-bed, 3-storey). The additional floor area will comprise 6 sqm to type B1 and B2 and 19 sqm to types C and L. Retention permission is sought for the addition of floor areas to the rear extensions (with accompanying rear elevation changes) to existing houses at No. 7 Loftus Lane (House Type B2, 3-bed, 2-storey); No. 2 Belmont Drive (House Type C, 3-bed, 2-storey); and No 6 Belmont Drive (House Type L, 4-bed, 3-storey), located within Phases 1 and 2 of the development. The additional floor area comprises 6sqm to type B2 and 19sqm to types C and L. All of the above to create new house types B1A (108 sqm GFA); B2A (108 sqm GFA); C1 (114 sqm GFA); and L1 (162 sqm GFA).

Lillian123 · 26-11-2013 2:56pm

Hi Jolisa,

Thanks for your reply. Yes I might go in and have a look at the plans, as our house is named in the application. I wonder is the rear elevation related to a change in to the roof, so people will be able to extend into the attic not sure though. If the land registry issues takes until Feb 2014, surely they will lose some buyers in the meantime. I wonder is this a tactic that will allow them to increase the price when they resell. Have the vendors solicitors responded to your queries?

Thanks

NinjaTruncs · 26-11-2013 2:57pm

Jolisa94 wrote: »

Hi Lillian,

at the moment you can only see the notice as it appears on site - it takes about a month for the supporting documentation to be uploaded. The planning permission is dated 19/11 so I would expect to see the documents around mid December.

I think they may be available if you go into the county council office yourself, but maybe call them first to be sure.

I'm not sure of the background to this, but I would say that the most likely explaination is that they saw the layout of some of the houses in the first phase was not popular and decided to change it, possibly before getting the planning permission to go ahead with it.

Here's an extract:
Planning permission is sought for amendments to existing permission D10A/0440 (ABP Ref. PL06D.239332) for the addition of floor area to permitted rear extensions and changes to the rear elevations of the following permitted 37 no. residential units in Phases 4 to 7 of Sector 1: Nos. 11-24 Belmont Drive; Nos. 1,2,5,6,7,12 & 14 Blackglen Heath; nos. 1-4, and 8-11 Alderman Road; and nos. 1-8 Cotter Close. The permitted units comprise house types - B1 and 2 (3-bed, 2-storey), C (3-bed, 2-storey) and L (4-bed, 3-storey). The additional floor area will comprise 6 sqm to type B1 and B2 and 19 sqm to types C and L. Retention permission is sought for the addition of floor areas to the rear extensions (with accompanying rear elevation changes) to existing houses at No. 7 Loftus Lane (House Type B2, 3-bed, 2-storey); No. 2 Belmont Drive (House Type C, 3-bed, 2-storey); and No 6 Belmont Drive (House Type L, 4-bed, 3-storey), located within Phases 1 and 2 of the development. The additional floor area comprises 6sqm to type B2 and 19sqm to types C and L. All of the above to create new house types B1A (108 sqm GFA); B2A (108 sqm GFA); C1 (114 sqm GFA); and L1 (162 sqm GFA).

Yeah they changed the plans and are now asking for permission to keep them that way.

Jolisa94 · 26-11-2013 3:10pm

Hi Lillian,
I think it refers to the Laragh house and the 3 story version of it. In phase one the living space was ridiculously small and so they modified it, moving the kitchen to the front and making the back extension bigger. If you look at the original plans for this house (type C) its only 98 square meters, whereas now they are asking for permission to extend it to 114 square meters.

Lillian123 · 26-11-2013 3:59pm

Thanks Jolisa,

Ya we have put deposit on the Laragh, has the phase one been built to 114sq metres then? As I think the show house we saw was that size.

Jolisa94 · 26-11-2013 4:44pm

The original version (the ones in Loftus Lane) had the living room at the front and a smaller extension at the back for the kitchen. In the original planning permission this was a three bed but they must have realised that the living space was to small and they compensated by building an extra couple of rooms in the attic. If you look at the photo gallery the room with the grey sofa and pale blue wallpaper is the attic room and the kitchen two photos to the right is the original Laragh kitchen. http://www.belmontstepaside.ie/gallery/index.html
This configuration must have been hard to sell becuase they were the last to go and they changed the layout for phase two.
Hope this helps - got to get back to work now!

Jolisa94 · 26-11-2013 10:08pm

Hi Zaza,
I'd be worried too. Have you queried this with your solicitor?

Jolisa94 · 27-11-2013 1:53pm

Hi all,

just noticed that the hyperlink i posted yesterday to the dlrcoco planning site was incomplete, correct one is:

http://planning.dlrcoco.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/wphappcriteria.display

Anyone tried looking up the land registry site? I tried just now and can't seem to get anywhere with it.

http://www.landregistry.ie/eng/

bauble1 · 29-11-2013 1:42pm

We have put a booking deposit on a 4 bed in phase 2 (house is already built) and we are trying to close the sale this year to get the exemption from the property tax.

Our solicitor has raised the issues mentioned already and have not received a response yet.

Has anybody actually closed a sale yet?

ruby16 · 29-11-2013 1:45pm

Has anyone closed and got a date when the estate can be lived in as still no one living there?

NewRunnerRoy · 29-11-2013 1:49pm

I have heard mixed reports on the number of people who have actually closed. The estate agents have informed me that a large number of people have completed but this conflicts with what people are saying on here, although it is a relatively small sample size.

I can not complete until all of the o/s issues are ironed out which has 0% chance of happening by the end of the year. It is very annoying that all of the problems with the contracts are going to end up costing me a fair bit with in property tax and additional legal fees

Lillian123 · 29-11-2013 1:52pm

I thought that we would still be exempt from the property tax until 2017 if you buy a new house in 2014, is that right?

NewRunnerRoy · 29-11-2013 3:42pm

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/housing_taxes_and_reliefs/local_property_tax_exemptions_and_reliefs.html

•New and previously unused properties that are purchased from a builder or developer between 1 January 2013 and 31 October 2016 will be exempt until the end of 2016 (even if sold again in that period).

As they are new homes we are exempt until 31/10/2016 regardless of when we close. At least that's something!

camo · 29-11-2013 7:21pm

I made a booking deposit in early October and was told it would be ready to move in Mid Nov. I visited my house a few days later with a surveyor to get it valued. At that stage the walls were plastered and kitchen units were not in.

My solicitor did not outline any issues with the contract when I met him to sign. I signed the contact three weeks ago. My solicitor told me that the builders solicitor said the builders wanted the full deposit lodged to their account. I directed my solicitor to not allow this. He said they were using 'bully boy' tactics to try and get me to close the sale quickly.

Early last week the auctioneer advised me the house would probably be ready for snagging the end of this week. I again phoned him early this week and he said I could deal directly with the finishing foreman as the contracts had been exchanged. I was told by the foreman that it would be ready for snagging the end of next week.

Here's the disturbing bit

A week ago I had a carpet company visit the house I am buying in order to get me a quote to carpet it. The man from the carpet company reported that there was a 'trench' dug in the sitting room. i.e. the concrete floor had been dug up.

When driving by the house the other day I saw a tanker truck with Drain Solutions written on the side. Apparently they had been there for a few days.

Does anyone know why there might be a trench in my sitting room and if there are issues with drainage??

In conclusion I have been very dissatisfied with how the estate agent handling (his initials are B F) this sale has dealt with it. I still have not been provided with a completion date, specification of how the house should be finished.

camo · 29-11-2013 8:09pm

Here's an extract from the Land Registry Website. Perhaps someone can make sense of this?

Zamboni · 29-11-2013 8:43pm

Haha! This thread!
Business is back to normal in good old Ireland

Arrogant estate agents, dodgy builders and over eager purchasers.

I cannot believe people on this thread were rushing to save a few bob on property tax for a couple of years on an outlay of probably 600k+ :eek:

I hate this country.

PulledOut · 29-11-2013 9:11pm

About 2 months ago we put a booking deposit down on a property on the belmont estate and have, like everyone on here, heard such bad feedback on the builders quality on work. We have heard from a very reputable source that there have been a lot of cut backs and corner cutting in terms on build quality. With that in mind and the various stories we have been reading on this site we have decided to pull out of buying a property from these people. I can't tell you how disappointed we are in losing out on such a gorgeous property but when it comes down to it, you need to feel happy with what you have invested in and this just would never have been the case had we pursued with the purchase. Something's are just too good to be true and this is a prime example. We are just pleased to know what we do now rather than when it would have been too late. Please proceed with upmost caution but good luck to those who are continuing with their purchases.

baldbear · 29-11-2013 9:16pm

Zamboni wrote: »

Haha! This thread!
Business is back to normal in good old Ireland

Arrogant estate agents, dodgy builders and over eager purchasers.

I cannot believe people on this thread were rushing to save a few bob on property tax for a couple of years on an outlay of probably 600k+ :eek:

I hate this country.

I was thinking the same. It appears people are rushing into buying and not trusting their gut feeling. The media are beginning to print their property porn again.

Do people not know friends who are reputable builders who can go visit their potential houses and get their opinions?

Its like 2007 all over. Groundhog day.

The brochure does look lovely in fairness but I suppose that's part and parcel of the sales pitch.

Pom101 · 29-11-2013 9:49pm

Cannot make head nor tail of the land registry documents but it is concerning that their are so many references to the outstanding AIB charges.

Camo - drainage problems are only identified once the system becomes live i.e. when they connect the water/drains up - the fact they have had to dig up a floor to fix it is unfortunate but not unheard of - the fact that they are actioning now is actually good news.

If I was yourself I would be more concerned about the contract documents - they are not right and your solicitor should have picked up on the outstanding AIB charge.

Wallander · 29-11-2013 10:08pm

Dear Pulled Out,

Are you able to elaborate on any of the corner cutting you mention?

We recently put ourselves down for a place in the second phase so are naturally concerned to read about all these problems.

The contract issues are one things, probably we are optimistically hoping they can be resolved as we are still to go through that stage. If there's quite substantial proof of poor construction then that would really frighten us.

Jolisa94 · 02-12-2013 9:55am

Camo,

thanks for downloading the land registry folio.

Its true that AIB is mentioned often, but i think the relevant one is item nr 145. Would need to follow this up but i think a higher level of access to the site would be necessary.

It looks like the original charge (item 8) was cancelled in 2007, so does that mean that a new loan was taken out in 2010?

Pom101 · 02-12-2013 9:34pm

Hello All,

We have just met with our solicitor and have been advised not to sign the contracts and walk away from purchasing any property in the Belmont Estate.

His recommendation is based upon the outstanding AIB charge - this charge makes the title deeds unsound i.e. we would not have clear title ownership of the house.

My solicitor has tried to get the Vendors solicitor to clarify the situation with the AIB charge but they cannot/won't do so.

Belmont has been a nightmare, the vendors solicitors have been nothing short of incompetent, treating potential buyers, like myself, with contempt. They issue orders and demand that we(the stupid buyer) comply.

The builders are struggling to complete houses which they said would be ready in September and Sherry Fitz will say anything to get the money out of your(and mine) hands.

What a mess - if your solicitor has OK'd you to sign the contracts I would suggest that you get a second opinion because the AIB charge should be easy for them to clarify but they cannot seem to do so ergo they cannot because they want the charge to be passed on to the buyer of the house(my own opinion).

Stay well clear of these 'Celtic tiger' cowboys.

New home sale in Belmont, Stepaside, Dublin 18

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