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Shannon airport

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cson wrote: »
    Belmullet is 3.5hrs from Shannon.

    That's pretty much as remote a 'major' population centre [~4k people] as you can get.

    You live in the arse end of nowhere then you have to live with the consequences; one of which may well be that you might have to hop in the car for a few hours to get to an airport.

    But yeah go on, ignore population densities and continue to water and feed whatever white elephant takes your fancy.

    :D:D Sure, it is if you have a helicopter, Cson you really need to get out more we all d'ont have motorways so unlike you Google maps doesn't always actually mean you get there when it says.. As i have said to you before if you travelled on roads with no cars, and the dozen or so towns on the way closed down, then you might just might make it.:). Seriously take a few weekend trips from college you need to see more of the country and world obviously.:eek: You know its quiet in SNN when they even have the lobby group here working Saturdays.:) (good thing about boards you can see posting history together) its got pretty bad when you lot are arguing the west is only 4 hours away from SNN to justify it existence OMG..Fun chatting but i dont work for SNN so have to go to work,


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    #33
    Plowman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


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    #34
    cson
    Registered Users Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Deleted User wrote: »
    :D:D Sure, it is if you have a helicopter, Cson you really need to get out more we all d'ont have motorways so unlike you Google maps doesn't always actually mean you get there when it says.. As i have said to you before if you travelled on roads with no cars, and the dozen or so towns on the way closed down, then you might just might make it.:). Seriously take a few weekend trips from college you need to see more of the country and world obviously.:eek: You know its quiet in SNN when they even have the lobby group here working Saturdays.:) Fun chatting but i dont work for SNN so have to go to work,

    Back to the childishness again. Yawn.

    G luck.
    Plowman wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    DAA would never let it happen but there's a massive case to be made for relocating the Aer Corps to SNN and selling Casement for commercial use. Build a link up to the Saggart Luas and boom; in one go you've just solved Dublin's capacity and need for the extra runway issues in one fell swoop [obviously looking long term not at the moment].


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    #35
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    cson wrote: »
    DAA would never let it happen but there's a massive case to be made for relocating the Aer Corps to SNN and selling Casement for commercial use. Build a link up to the Saggart Luas and boom; in one go you've just solved Dublin's capacity and need for the extra runway issues in one fell swoop [obviously looking long term not at the moment].

    You think so? If casement was not where it is, with the runway orientation that is has, maybe, but with it in that location and runway orientation, there would be more space on the ground for aircraft, that's true, but there is already a conflict between the approach path of the 2 airfields, so using Casement as an alternative to Dublin is not going to solve much capacity wise, and the approach profile to Casement is over heavily populated areas, so there will be both safety and noise abatement considerations that will restrict what would be allowed into Casement.

    At some stage, Dublin is going to have to do some serious work on 10/28, the foundations are starting to fail, despite it not being that old a runway, and ideally, it needs to be long enough to allow things like 747 freighters to operate at MTOW, which they can't do at the moment.

    Going back to Shannon, one of the other underlying reasons for it's location was the original flying boat station at Foynes, which was the start of trans atlantic operations. When flying boats went out of favour, Shannon was the answer for the fix wing aircraft of the day to operate from, and there is a long history as a result, which should not be dismissed.

    As I think I mentioned earlier, the real problem was the Shannon Stopover, which forced operators to land 3 times in Ireland for one rotation to Dublin, which was a major disincentive to developing Irish Routes for a long time.

    Given real commitment, which seems to be sadly lacking, Shannon could become a very busy and significant hub for the North Atlantic, but only if there is a lot more proactive action from DAA, which is sadly lacking at the moment.

    There is also another point to be considered. Depending on the time of day the flight leaves at, there is a check in time to be factored in to the travel time. A flight leaving Shannon at 10 am to the States may well mean being at the airport between 7 and 8. To acheive that arrival time with a journey that's 3 hours means leaving at 4 am, or earlier if a longer journey, or it means a night stop, and what about the scenario of a family member dropping someone off and going home again afterwards. A day's travel to get someone to the airport? I don't think so,

    The fundamental problem facing Shannon at the moment is not that it's there, it's that it's too large for the area it's in, as a result of a historic accident that made it that size when flights had to stop for fuel back in the days when they might not even get across the Atlantic every day. It's there, and not likely to be easily downsized, so what's needed is the creativity to find ways to use the capacity it has to best effect, instead of hoping that some operator somewhere will wave a magic wand for Shannon and solve all it's problems. DAA has to engage actively with promoting Shannon.

    Ideally, Shannon would have it's own manangement and be independent of Dublin and Cork, but the politicians still have their heads where the sun doesn't shine in that respect, and won't untangle the puzzle in a way that will allow both Cork & Shannon to start determining their own futures without being beholden to Dublin.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #36
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    This country for decades followed a policy of providing for expensive ( and in many cases ' Mickey Mouse ' ) airports dotted all over the country - this investment was undertaken at the expense of decent road links which would have been of far greater benefit to the country as a whole.

    We have way too many airports and there will have to be a significant rationalisation - Galway , Waterford and Donegal are 3 that spring to mind.

    Shannon has no chance unless it can market itself to airlines as a low cost airport , something that seems unlikely given current staffing levels.

    We are a small island and its very easy to attach too much importance to the benefits of having your ' own ' airport , for all the Shannon supporters throwing their toys out of the pram when the Governmemt belatedly ended the Shannon stopover the questions must be asked if the end of the stop did any damage to the regional economy ?
    Yes , Sile DeValera mercilessly worked the parish pump and resigned the Fianna Fail whip in protest but did ending the stop do any damage to the region ( other than hurt feelings and local politicians pandering to voters ) ?


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    #37
    pclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭pclancy


    Don't let this thread descend into petty insults etc, it is possible to debate each others viewpoint without name calling. I will hand out infractions to the next poster that cannot attack the post and not the poster.


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    #38
    Skyhawk684
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Skyhawk684


    Delancey wrote: »
    This country for decades followed a policy of providing for expensive ( and in many cases ' Mickey Mouse ' ) airports dotted all over the country - this investment was undertaken at the expense of decent road links which would have been of far greater benefit to the country as a whole.

    We have way too many airports and there will have to be a significant rationalisation - Galway , Waterford and Donegal are 3 that spring to mind.

    I don't agree with you on rationalising Wateford, since it is the only proper airport in the south east which has a population of 460,838 (according to the 2006 census). Waterford isn't doing as bad as likes of Galway, since Easyjet are starting a route this year to London Southend and FlyBe are going to be starting a route to Birmingham.


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    #39
    Zonda999
    Registered Users Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭Zonda999


    Easyjet are opening a route to Southend from Waterford? Didn't think Waterford would be able to handle jet aircraft..


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    #40
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,465 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Skyhawk684 wrote: »
    I don't agree with you on rationalising Wateford, since it is the only proper airport in the south east which has a population of 460,838 (according to the 2006 census). Waterford isn't doing as bad as likes of Galway, since Easyjet are starting a route this year to London Southend and FlyBe are going to be starting a route to Birmingham.

    I didn't hear about the Easyjet flight....will be interesting to see how that works out from a number of perspectives (getting the aircraft in there for a start!)


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    #41
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,465 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    Zonda999 wrote: »
    Easyjet are opening a route to Southend from Waterford? Didn't think Waterford would be able to handle jet aircraft..

    Seems it is true http://www.flywaterford.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=205&Itemid=200 - I'd say numbers will be restricted though


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    #42
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    Shannon's existence as a passenger airport is very limited. At most it will keep its flights to the US but I doubt it will expand on them as US airlines will just try and make there current routes work and increase capacity where needed by feeding passengers onto those flight in the US and move from a 757 to a 767 where needed.

    Holiday routes are the only realistic expansion but I can see this as a limited option as few have money to fly/holiday these days.

    The emergency Atlantic diversion airfield, moot point as Shannon will never close and doesn't neccesarily need a huge terminal to provide this function Kangerlussuaq Airport in Greenland also provides this function and is MUCH smaller also like Lajes in the Azores (size doesn't matter bar having a reasonable runway length).

    Swanwick ATCC is not near a major airport so having Ballycasey in an industrial estate won't save Shannon not that Shannon airport will close.

    Shannons real future is Cargo, that would require investment to provide a large dedicated apron and warehousing. But Shannon will never do well as its not central in Europe or Ireland unlike Liege or East midlands so it won't attract the large Cargo companies away from their current facilities.

    People in Shannon need to be real, Shannon's future is not bright but it will survive in some form or other.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If this is true about the state writing off 100 million of shannon airport debt then its an absolute disgrace. This is debt of people that use shannon airport and if they want there airport in the swamp then they should pay for it by putting a levy on each passenger that want the convenience of shannon to pay their debt, like people in the west and north west support Knock with a 10 euro levy to pay for its development.

    The tax payer has enough burdens and should not be paying for an airport that doesn't have the numbers to keep it open. I do forget though that from that area they dont like travelling more than an hour to an airport:mad: I'd much rather see the 100 million go to securing the building of the childrens hospital in Dublin instead of bailing out overstaffed underused inefficient airports. Remove the passenger section and turn it into a sea - air cargo airport if it can make a profit.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/i...n-3002529.html


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    #44
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Easyjet are NOT operating from WAT, the press relase is to offer connections to passengers flying with AER ARANN on the route.


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    #45
    urajoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 722 ✭✭✭urajoke


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If this is true about the state writing off 100 million of shannon airport debt then its an absolute disgrace. This is debt of people that use shannon airport and if they want there airport in the swamp then they should pay for it by putting a levy on each passenger that use that shannon to pay their debt, like people in the west and north west support Knock with a 10 euro levy to pay for its development.

    The tax payer has enough burdens and should not be paying for an airport that doesn't have the numbers to keep it open.:mad:

    http://www.independent.ie/business/i...n-3002529.html

    It means more for Dublin than Shannon. It means Shannon can be cut loose and has to fend for itself while Dublin doesn't have to shoulder the burden of Shannon and its massive debts. Possibly paving the way for a full privatisation of Shannon at some point.


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    #46
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Don't want to get too involved in the debate but I see SNN as a great resource that is currently underused. (I agree that the SNN stopover has created a negative opinion towards it)

    I agree that the idea of SNN as a cargo hub is spot on. Large airport, no nearby urban area to encroach means night ops. (In from Europe, night departure from SNN,early morn arrival into USA) Long runway allows max take off weight (full range), access to port means container ship access, closest airport to USA from Europe.

    Such a thing will take 5-10 years at least to develop but it is a strong option.

    I like the logic behind the Europe-SNN-USA hub presented by Irish Steve, I'm just not sure how it would happen. No existing airline will try it unless in the next 5 years we see the much touted 'RyanAtlantic' venture actually happen.

    EDIT: Rebuttal at Zonda999- Don't look at a LCC T/A airline using B787/A350, just imagine how many low hour B763/B764/B772/A333 may become available in 5 years time when airlines are replacing them with the B787/A350. Any such SNN hub operation will be cramming pax into aircraft,no need for too much comfort. You say it is not the FR style. Look at how they started. second hand B732's into a 200+ B738 order! The huge 2001/2002 order was a gamble/opportunity that they did very well out of.


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    #47
    Zonda999
    Registered Users Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭Zonda999


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Easyjet are NOT operating from WAT, the press relase is to offer connections to passengers flying with AER ARANN on the route.
    I see, although if I'm honest, i can't see the attraction in getting two flights to get to mainland Europe from Waterford when Dublin airport is only about an hour and a half away and Cork airport is only an hour away.

    My two cents on the thread: Its questionable whether there should be more than one airport in the state offering transatlantic flights, even though looking at any other country in Europe with a similar population to ours, there would only be one. Think Denmark, Holland or Belgium, they all effectively use one airport for long haul. Difference with us being that Ireland is bigger geographically that any of those countries, even though we have a smaller population than any of them. Unfortunately our transport links aren't as good as those countries though.
    Tenger wrote: »
    No existing airline will try it unless in the next 5 years we see the much touted 'RyanAtlantic' venture actually happen.

    Which doesn't look too likely really, seeing as they couldn't possible get the aircraft needed(Assuming they would be using 787's or A350's) unless they were to use used aircraft, which doesn't seem to be ryanairs style. Plus its pretty questionable how the long haul low cost business model stacks up when you think about it... Only savings i can think that can be made over existing transatlantic operators is choosing 'cheaper' airports..


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    #48
    Dublin Spotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Dublin Spotter


    At some stage, Dublin is going to have to do some serious work on 10/28, the foundations are starting to fail, despite it not being that old a runway, and ideally, it needs to be long enough to allow things like 747 freighters to operate at MTOW, which they can't do at the moment.

    This came up a while back and do the DAA have a plan on what they plan to do with it etc.


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    #49
    cson
    Registered Users Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Again re two airports in the country operating transatlantic flights; Delta and United wouldn't be flying from Shannon unless it paid them to. United operate year round too btw.


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    #50
    Dacian
    Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Dacian


    cson wrote: »
    Again re two airports in the country operating transatlantic flights; Delta and United wouldn't be flying from Shannon unless it paid them to. United operate year round too btw.

    I can't see anyone arguing against the viability of SNN on certain routes. The big picture is that we have 4 airports (Cork,Kerry,Shannon,Knock) serving a catchment area that requires 1-2 airports.

    Sad to say but the GWY scenario is a sign that the market cannot support too many airports.

    What we need is a political will to override local interests and decide what is best for the entire Western half of the country, in terms of infrastructure/jobs/economy. If we got better road access from Kerry to SNN/ORK we would be able to close Kerry airport.

    Fair play to NOC but would it be better to consolidate all air travel from Connaught/North Munster to SNN, allowing ORK to be the destination for South Munster/South Leinster?

    Regardless of personal preference we need a strong will to enforce a solution that is beneficial for the entire region not just small pockets. The map posted earlier vividly demonstrates the viability and badly planned Irish airports infrastructure.


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    #51
    Zonda999
    Registered Users Posts: 5,531 ✭✭✭Zonda999


    Tenger wrote: »
    EDIT: Rebuttal at Zonda999- Don't look at a LCC T/A airline using B787/A350, just imagine how many low hour B763/B764/B772/A333 may become available in 5 years time when airlines are replacing them with the B787/A350. Any such SNN hub operation will be cramming pax into aircraft,no need for too much comfort. You say it is not the FR style. Look at how they started. second hand B732's into a 200+ B738 order! The huge 2001/2002 order was a gamble/opportunity that they did very well out of.

    There certainly will be plenty of those around, but somehow when people hear about 'Ryanatlantic', i think they assume it would be all new aircraft but maybe not of course.. I still think though that any such venture would be done with one aircraft type to bring down maintenance costs, i just can't see 'Ryanatlantic' being a Transaero like operation, with a load of different aircraft types being used because thats what were available from other airlines

    In retrospect, I was probably wrong expecting any such airline to start with an all new fleet, lets face it, Ryanatlantic would have to make money completely independent of Ryanair. I think its just when MOL was asked a couple of years ago about the delay, he said it was about the lack of availability of cheap aircraft, which everyone assumed to be the 787 or whatever


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    #52
    Skyhawk684
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Skyhawk684


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Easyjet are NOT operating from WAT, the press relase is to offer connections to passengers flying with AER ARANN on the route.

    Ah my apologies, the article that I read made it seem like they were!


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    #53
    Alfasud
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Alfasud


    Shannon Airport should be used for the Chinese Hub at Athlone. In fact it should be built close to the airport


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    #54
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭source


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    There is also another point to be considered. Depending on the time of day the flight leaves at, there is a check in time to be factored in to the travel time. A flight leaving Shannon at 10 am to the States may well mean being at the airport between 7 and 8. To acheive that arrival time with a journey that's 3 hours means leaving at 4 am, or earlier if a longer journey, or it means a night stop, and what about the scenario of a family member dropping someone off and going home again afterwards. A day's travel to get someone to the airport? I don't think so,

    While I agree with most of your post, I take have to disagree with this very Dublincentric point you've made. The majority of the population have to do this every day at the moment.

    A bit of anecdotal evidence, My folks live in Sunderland, I live in Limerick. In order to get over to see him, I have to drive to DUB to fly ryanair to Newcastle. So I have to leave 5 hours before the flight time (to allow for traffic depending on time of flight(2-3 hour drive then allowing check-in time)) in order to take a 50min flight. When there's a perfectly good airport 15 minutes by HQDC from my house.

    This happens every day with people from all over the country, so there's approx 3 million people in this country who have to travel to Dublin for the majority of flights out of this country. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Dublin folk would have to do similar in order to fly transatlantic.


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    #55
    roundymac
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    source wrote: »
    While I agree with most of your post, I take have to disagree with this very Dublincentric point you've made. The majority of the population have to do this every day at the moment.

    A bit of anecdotal evidence, My folks live in Sunderland, I live in Limerick. In order to get over to see him, I have to drive to DUB to fly ryanair to Newcastle. So I have to leave 5 hours before the flight time (to allow for traffic depending on time of flight(2-3 hour drive then allowing check-in time)) in order to take a 50min flight. When there's a perfectly good airport 15 minutes by HQDC from my house.

    This happens every day with people from all over the country, so there's approx 3 million people in this country who have to travel to Dublin for the majority of flights out of this country. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Dublin folk would have to do similar in order to fly transatlantic.
    Why not pop down to Cork, Jet2 to Newcastle on a friday night, return on a sunday night. Much less stressful than going to Dublin. On the T/A side of things we have it in reverse, we have to go to SNN, Delta have changed the times this year, made their times similer to United's. Arriving at 0745, departing at 0925. Used be arr 0925, depart 1105. It will probably mean an over night in SNN for us.


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    #56
    xflyer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Dublin folk would have to do similar in order to fly transatlantic.
    Seriously? Isn't that taking the anti Dublin bias of so many people a bit too far? In the real world Dublin and the East coast is the most densely populated part of the country. It's also the destination of choice for many of the inbound passengers.

    The reason Shannon doesn't have the choice of routes is the simple lack of population. It's an accident of geography that it's there at all. It was needed then, not so much now.


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    #57
    roundymac
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    MOL has stated in the past that the airports used by "Ryanatlantic" would be Dublin, Stanstead, and I think Frankfurt Hahn. There might have been one or two others.


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    #58
    highlydebased
    Registered Users Posts: 7,465 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    :rolleyes: Not the Shannon debate


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    #59
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭source


    roundymac wrote: »
    Why not pop down to Cork, Jet2 to Newcastle on a friday night, return on a sunday night. Much less stressful than going to Dublin. On the T/A side of things we have it in reverse, we have to go to SNN, Delta have changed the times this year, made their times similer to United's. Arriving at 0745, departing at 0925. Used be arr 0925, depart 1105. It will probably mean an over night in SNN for us.

    Unfortunately anytime I've been over doesn't coincide with a weekend so I'm stuck with flying Ryanair from DUB, I was just using my experience as an example with which to illustrate a point.
    xflyer wrote: »
    Seriously? Isn't that taking the anti Dublin bias of so many people a bit too far? In the real world Dublin and the East coast is the most densely populated part of the country. It's also the destination of choice for many of the inbound passengers.

    The reason Shannon doesn't have the choice of routes is the simple lack of population. It's an accident of geography that it's there at all. It was needed then, not so much now.

    I'm not being anti Dublin, I think the airport is a fantastic facility and I actually enjoy going to Dublin, I like it as a city too. My issue is the fact that Shannon isn't getting the routes due to a number of factors, High landing charges (higher than Dublin) set by DAA for one, Ryanair pulling out of Shannon due to the tourist tax on top of the high landing charges for another. Yes Dublin and the counties immediately surrounding it are densely populated, however Shannon caters for a much larger area, the population of which have to travel to Dublin in order to fly because Shannon remains under utilised.

    In the counties immediately surrounding Shannon Airport, there is a population of approximately 700,000 people, Shannon could very well service the needs of these people and provide a bit of relief to Dublin Airport. As I've already stated Dublin is a fantastic airport and needs to be as big as it is due to the fact that 1 it is in the capital city of the country, and 2 it has a large population to service, but it doesn't have to be the only airport in the country, which if things keep going the way they're going then it will be.

    I think I've shown that the lack of routes has nothing to do with a lack of population, the figure I've quoted takes into account, Limerick, Tipperary, Offaly, Clare and half of Galway, as they would be closer (travel time) to Shannon by road than Knock. I didn't even include the people living in North Kerry who would be closer to Shannon than Cork.

    There's a lot more to the demise of Shannon than a dismissive comment about population figures.

    As for the comment on people choosing to fly into Dublin, that is true to a certain extent, but only because they're not given the choice of another airport. It's easy to say they chose to fly to Dublin when they're told they can only fly to Dublin. There are hundreds of thousands of people who are visiting this country only for the west coast and they're forced to travel into Dublin and then spend quite a bit of money getting across the country. These people alone would be more than enough to justify Shannon's existence, add onto that a decent service to the UK and Europe for the 700,000 people living nearby and everyone is happy.

    While It's not a huge ordeal for me to travel to Dublin (Living a mile from the M7) imagine how it must be for someone living on the east coast of Clare, First they have to drive for an hour or so to get near a road for Dublin and then they have the trip to Dublin, If Shannon was a viable choice these people would choose it over Dublin every time. As it stands now, there is no choice. Unless you're going to London or the US then don't bother, even considering Shannon.


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    #60
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    source wrote: »
    While I agree with most of your post, I take have to disagree with this very Dublincentric point you've made. The majority of the population have to do this every day at the moment.

    If you were to read some of the posts I've made over the last couple of months or so, I am NOT Dublin centric, despite living only 15 minutes from the place. There is a VERY clear role for Shannon, IF, and it's a very BIG IF, the relevant people in the right places get off their backsides and promote the things that Shannon could be good for. The problem is that they are not, and we've seen the result.

    As it stands at the moment, partly through historic idiocy, partly through the range of aircraft 30 and 40 years ago, and partly through parish pump politics that have bedevilled any sensible ideas for longer than I care to think about, Shannon has too big an infrastructure for the level of passengers that want to use the place, which means that any airline looking to use Shannon gets hammered costs wise in order to try and meet the cost of running the place.

    If Shannon was being built now, it probably wouldn't get built at all, or it would be the size of Knock, or Exeter, or Bournemouth, or Southampton, or Cardiff, or Liverpool, or........., the list is endless, whereas it has the longest runway in Ireland, and a terminal that's massive in terms of the size of terminals in most of the other airports I've mentioned, all of which have significantly more flights per day than Shannon. OK, not all my list have Transatlantic flights, because they have other places not far from them that are larger again, which serve the long haul market, like Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.

    With proper promotion, and infrastructure around it, both of which are sadly lacking at the moment, the Shannon AREA, note AREA, not just the airport, could be a hub for a large part of not just Ireland, but for a significant part of Europe, as fuel prices increase, and become more difficult to obtain, for both air and sea transport. It needs massive investment to make it happen, and you can bet that it will have to be fought for tooth and nail to get it from Europe, but in the long term, that is the way to go, and if it happens, there won't be any need to complain about lack of business, if anything, the opposite will be the case, and there will be complaints that the area is too busy.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #61
    roundymac
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    highlydebased wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Not the Shannon debate
    I was ruling SNN out of the running. Some people were hinting that MOL might start his T/A operation at SNN.


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