weather and de icing problems for Ryanair at Dublin 03-03-19 Airport

Caranica · 08-03-2019 9:10am

terencemc wrote: »

Caranica - were you flying to the UK though?

From the UK so that must be why.

terencemc · 08-03-2019 10:36am

I found the Irish equivalent of the CAA...and they redirected me here:
https://www.flightrights.ie/home/complaint-procedure.452.html

I'll keep you up to date on how it goes...I've taken a screenshot of the Dublin airport twitter page...has anyone any more supporting material?

L1011 · 08-03-2019 11:10am

billy few mates wrote: »

The UK CAA have previously taken endorsement action against them in the past, while they ask you to approach your own regulator first that doesn't mean they won't be interested in your case. It won't cost you anything to write to them and let them know what's going on.
In the past they've proven themselves to be more proactive in reminding operators of their obligations under the terms of the legislation than our own regulator.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Resolving-travel-problems/Delays-cancellations/Making-a-claim/What-to-do-if-your-claim-is-rejected/

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/UK-Civil-Aviation-Authority-begins-enforcement-action-against-Ryanair/

The flight info I was replying to didn't touch the UK so they would have zero authority.

Corca Baiscinn · 08-03-2019 4:32pm

billy few mates wrote: »

Just follow the signs for the T1 gates, it's a five to ten minute stroll.

It also has the advantage that when you look at the screens in T2 it will tell you the actual gate for your flight in T1.
In T1 it won't tell you until thirty minutes before departure because they want to keep you in the shops...

Cosmo and Twentygrand and yourself seem to have this down to a T but I'm still puzzled. When you say "follow the signs, do they say T1 as well as the numbers or do you just know the T1 sequence is ***? Think the gates are numbered 40X and 30X but I could be mistaken. I'm usually travelling from T1 but the Gate doesn't come up until shortly before the boarding time so you're hanging around near the signs.

Remember seeing on last year's airport tips thread though that the food choices in T1 are better so would be good to know how to move between them

VG31 · 08-03-2019 4:46pm

Follow the signs for gates 1xx to 3xx. 100/200/300 gates are Terminal 1; 400 gates are Terminal 2.

Tenger · 09-03-2019 12:12am

VG31 wrote: »

Follow the signs for gates 1xx to 3xx. 100/200/300 gates are Terminal 1; 400 gates are Terminal 2.

Slight adjustment;
1xx and 2xx are Terminal 1.
4xx gates are Terminal 2.
3xx gates have a mix of T1 and T2 flights.
3xx are the closest gates to T1 security point.

For those old enough to remember when it was just the airport Terminal;
1xx = D gates
2xx = A gates
3xx = B gates
C gates were demolished to build T2.

VG31 · 09-03-2019 1:17am

Tenger wrote: »

Slight adjustment;
1xx and 2xx are Terminal 1.
4xx gates are Terminal 2.
3xx gates have a mix of T1 and T2 flights.
3xx are the closest gates to T1 security point.

True, but the 3xx gates are in Terminal 1. At least Pier B/gates 301-307A are (why 307A and not 308?). The bus gates 332-335 are a bit less clear cut but are still closer to T1 than T2.

The Veteran · 09-03-2019 1:59am

100, 200, 300 = T1

300, 400 = T2

The 300s are shared

For 300s; T1 Security is physically closer but T2 Security is only a few minutes walk away

There aren’t two terminals as such. For departures there are two entry points to one big shared terminal

Caranica · 19-04-2019 10:49am

Has anyone had a decision on their claims to to CAA?

terencemc · 19-04-2019 12:18pm

Not yet

Caranica · 19-04-2019 1:21pm

terencemc wrote: »

Not yet

Nor me

NebPlanders · 21-05-2019 4:00pm

Caranica wrote: »

Has anyone had a decision on their claims to to CAA?

Not yet, but I've received two emails from them recently, one a few weeks ago to say that they will let me know the decision within 10 weeks, and a follow up today to ask for proof of the flights we had to book instead of Ryanair when they couldn't offer us flights within a reasonable time.

Will let you all know if there's anything more... fingers crossed!

Corca Baiscinn · 21-05-2019 7:18pm

VG31 wrote: »

True, but the 3xx gates are in Terminal 1. At least Pier B/gates 301-307A are (why 307A and not 308?). The bus gates 332-335 are a bit less clear cut but are still closer to T1 than T2.

Just glancing back at this thread and only noticed the reference to "bus gates" now. So a gate where you disembark down steps and are bussed to the terminal entrance? Only happened to me once and seemed really weird as to the best of my recollection it involved a walk around the houses too. Are they used at busy times or what?

LXFlyer · 21-05-2019 7:39pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Just glancing back at this thread and only noticed the reference to "bus gates" now. So a gate where you disembark down steps and are bussed to the terminal entrance? Only happened to me once and seemed really weird as to the best of my recollection it involved a walk around the houses too. Are they used at busy times or what?

There are two types of bus gate:

Two different locations are used for all EI Regional flights for which the passengers which are bussed to and from the aircraft. One set of these is located within T2 (gates 336-337) and the second is between T2 and T1 (gates 332-334).

There’s also the south gates which are used by EI mainline short haul flights and involve being bussed from the main terminal (gate 335) to another building where there are multiple boarding gates via aircraft steps.

Arriving passengers at the latter area are then bussed back to T2.

There simply aren’t enough stands in the main terminals at certain times (particularly the first wave in the morning) to cope with all of the flights.

Corca Baiscinn · 21-05-2019 7:51pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

There are two types of bus gate:

Two different locations are used for all EI Regional flights for which the passengers which are bussed to and from the aircraft. One set of these is located within T2 (gates 336-337) and the second is between T2 and T1 (gates 332-334).

There’s also the south gates which are used by EI mainline short haul flights and involve being bussed from the main terminal (gate 335) to another building where there are multiple boarding gates via aircraft steps.

Arriving passengers at the latter area are then bussed back to T2.

There simply aren’t enough stands in the main terminals at certain times (particularly the first wave in the morning) to cope with all of the flights.

Thank you, that makes sense, it was a short haul and not regional flight but it was on landing not boarding that the bus came into play.

Caranica · 27-05-2019 11:21pm

00There is a dedicated thread to these queues on this forum

I keep hoping someone has had a success with the CAA when notifications come in about this thread. It's almost 3 months since the particular shambles I started the thread about.

MOD NOTE. Noted, and I've moved a considerable number of off topic posts to the appropriate thread. Hopefully, this thread will get back on topic again without further pollution.

terencemc · 26-06-2019 2:00pm

Has anyone heard from the aviation authority?

Caranica · 26-06-2019 2:21pm

terencemc wrote: »

Has anyone heard from the aviation authority?

No further updates yet, the longer it goes on the less hope I have of a successful outcome

terencemc · 12-07-2019 11:55am

I just received the following:

Dear Mr XXX,

I refer to previous correspondence and the detail of your complaint received 08/03/2019 set out therein.

The Commission raised your complaint with Ryanair and considered their representations and evidence provided by them. In addition, where necessary, we contacted other relevant civil aviation authorities for further evidence.

Having examined the evidence provided by all parties the Commission has decided that no refund, reimbursement or compensation is payable to you. The reason that the Commission has decided no refund, re-imbursement or compensation is payable to you is that the disruption was due to extraordinary circumstances. The adverse weather produced conditions that necessitated de-icing. As the weather in this circumstance was unpredicted, the airline could not take any reasonable measures to avoid the disruption. This includes preparing de-icing before the weather event, as there was no evidence that de-icing was required until the weather event occurred. Therefore, as this weather event was unusual, and unpredicted it is deemed to be an extraordinary circumstance.

Given that all matters which fall within our enforcement remit have now been addressed, the Commission is closing the file on this investigation. In the event that you do not agree with our decision you are of course entitled to seek recourse through an alternative channel such as the small claims court. Information concerning the small claims procedure is available at www.courts.ie.

Please be advised that, in accordance with our Records Retention Policy we will retain all documents relating to this case for a period of 6 months from the date of this letter, after which time they will be destroyed.

Any advice?

I feel like I want to challenge it as a weather warning was forecast that day and aer lingus cancelled minimal flights so they obviously had their de-icer at the ready.

billy few mates · 12-07-2019 12:30pm

terencemc wrote: »

I just received the following:

Dear Mr XXX,

I refer to previous correspondence and the detail of your complaint received 08/03/2019 set out therein.

The Commission raised your complaint with Ryanair and considered their representations and evidence provided by them. In addition, where necessary, we contacted other relevant civil aviation authorities for further evidence.

Having examined the evidence provided by all parties the Commission has decided that no refund, reimbursement or compensation is payable to you. The reason that the Commission has decided no refund, re-imbursement or compensation is payable to you is that the disruption was due to extraordinary circumstances. The adverse weather produced conditions that necessitated de-icing. As the weather in this circumstance was unpredicted, the airline could not take any reasonable measures to avoid the disruption. This includes preparing de-icing before the weather event, as there was no evidence that de-icing was required until the weather event occurred. Therefore, as this weather event was unusual, and unpredicted it is deemed to be an extraordinary circumstance.

Given that all matters which fall within our enforcement remit have now been addressed, the Commission is closing the file on this investigation. In the event that you do not agree with our decision you are of course entitled to seek recourse through an alternative channel such as the small claims court. Information concerning the small claims procedure is available at www.courts.ie.

Please be advised that, in accordance with our Records Retention Policy we will retain all documents relating to this case for a period of 6 months from the date of this letter, after which time they will be destroyed.

Any advice?

I feel like I want to challenge it as a weather warning was forecast that day and aer lingus cancelled minimal flights so they obviously had their de-icer at the ready.

I'd definitely take it to the SCC, for €25 you have nothing to lose.
If Aer Lingus could manage so should Ryanair, weather events such as this can happen anytime in this part of the world and airlines should have a proper procedure and sufficient resources to deal with it.
If it happened on the Spanish Costa or some other sun drenched part of the world I might be inclined to agree with them but this is Ireland and these things can happen.

terencemc · 12-07-2019 12:35pm

Cheers Billy, definitely will do. I've already replied to her with a met.ie weather report from that morning which states icy patches are predicted in it. I've also asked her to address how the majority of other airlines had their de-icers at the ready and took off. I've used online references for both so hopefully I've backed her into a corner. The above looks like a generic response as it failed to address numerous issues in my original mail. It also doesnt address the fact that ryanair didnt refund me for my flight the next day. Rather, they took the cheap option and refunded me for my original flight. I was contesting that sly move too.
I dont live in Ireland so the SCC is not really an option though.

billy few mates · 12-07-2019 1:24pm

terencemc wrote: »

Cheers Billy, definitely will do. I've already replied to her with a met.ie weather report from that morning which states icy patches are predicted in it. I've also asked her to address how the majority of other airlines had their de-icers at the ready and took off. I've used online references for both so hopefully I've backed her into a corner. The above looks like a generic response as it failed to address numerous issues in my original mail. It also doesnt address the fact that ryanair didnt refund me for my flight the next day. Rather, they took the cheap option and refunded me for my original flight. I was contesting that sly move too.
I dont live in Ireland so the SCC is not really an option though.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

terencemc · 22-07-2019 10:08am

Has anyone else got a decision?

Caranica · 22-07-2019 10:45am

terencemc wrote: »

Has anyone else got a decision?

Nothing here

terencemc · 01-08-2019 1:49pm

Update - After 3 emails back and forth, I got the aviation authority to see sense with regard to me purchasing a new flight. I think I will still seek compensation under EU261 from the small claims court. I suggest if you have a similar problem to use the template below:

XXX,
No doubt you are aware of section section 4.2 of Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 as follows:
Article 8(1) of the Regulation imposes on air carriers the obligation to offer passengers a triple choice, between (i) reimbursement of the ticket price (36) and, in the case of connections, a return flight to the airport of departure at the earliest opportunity, (ii) re-routing to their final destination either at the earliest opportunity or, (iii) re-routing at a later date at the passenger's convenience under comparable transport conditions, subject to availability of seats. As a general principle, when the passenger is informed about the cancellation of the flight and is correctly informed on the available choices, the choice offered to passengers under Article 8(1) is to be made once. In such cases, as soon as the passenger has chosen one of the three options under Article 8(1)(a), (b) or (c), the air carrier no longer has any obligation linked to the other two options. Nonetheless, the obligation to compensation may still apply according to Article 5(1)(c) in connection with Article 7.

The air carrier should simultaneously offer the choice between reimbursement and re-routing. In the case of connecting flights, the air carrier should simultaneously offer the choice between reimbursement and a return flight to the airport of departure and re-routing. The air carrier has to bear the costs for re-routing or a return flight, and must reimburse the costs for the flight borne by the passenger where the air carrier does not comply with its obligation to offer re-routing or return under comparable transport conditions at the earliest opportunity. Where the air carrier does not offer the choice between reimbursement and re-routing and, in the case of connecting flights, reimbursement and a return flight to the airport of departure and re-routing, but decides unilaterally to reimburse the passenger, he or she is entitled to a further reimbursement of the price difference with the new ticket under comparable transport conditions.

It is quite clear from the above that the airline must offer a flight at the earliest opportunity. No where does it state that this applies exclusively to the original airlines seats. Thus, one is allowed to book a rivals seat. The FR3102 flight you refer to departs Dublin at 11:05 whereas the AerLingus flight I booked departs at 6:15. This is a difference of 4 hours and 50 minutes. Hence, I was entitled to book the earlier flight with suitable reimbursement. Please, outline why you choose to interpret the above statement contrary to the EU's guidelines?

terencemc · 01-08-2019 1:58pm

Out of interest was there anyone here on a non Ryanair flight that was cancelled that night? Did you receive compensation?

terencemc · 12-08-2019 1:21pm

Anyone else get a decision?

Caranica · 12-08-2019 2:10pm

terencemc wrote: »

Anyone else get a decision?

Still waiting

NebPlanders · 15-08-2019 11:15am

terencemc wrote: »

Anyone else get a decision?

Still waiting, I did put similar stuff to what was mentioned earlier with links to Met Eireann and included links to news articles that confirmed the airport was operating and other airlines flew in my original complaint. I contacted the CAA the other day to see what was happening and got a reply back that due to large volumes of cases there was a delay but still looking into it. Fingers crossed

terencemc · 15-08-2019 11:48am

@NebPlanders, I hope you have better luck than I did. I will wait a while until they deal with people's claim here before submitting to the small claims court. TBH I found the CAA quite authoritarian. I asked them to explain multiple times how one could consider the weather extraordinary - Imagine forecasted snow in early March! They just seemed to have a standard response stating that the case was closed.

weather and de icing problems for Ryanair at Dublin 03-03-19 Airport

Comments