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Reading Griffith's Valuation

  • 27-05-2019 4:04pm
    #1
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭


    I'm trying to understand a (possible) record of my great-great-grandfather in Griffith's Valuation using Claire Santry's book and I just wanted to clarify something. The record follows:

    jeremiah-mullowney-griffiths.png


    In Santry's book, for the lower case a, it says (about particular examples)

    "...reveals that only three of the occupiers reside here."

    Does that mean that the lower-case a means that he resides in a house indicated by lower-case a in plot A, and the lack of the a beside plot B means he's rented that but didn't reside there?

    So to summarise the record:

    * Jeremiah Mulldowney rents two plots, A and B.
    * Plot A contains a house in which he resides, and land of around 3 acres
    * Plot B contains just land, around 6 acres
    * The house's ratable value is around 5 shilling, which Santry indicates would have been a "comfortable" house

    EDIT: I also want to make sure I have the right map(s):

    jm-ashroe-map1.png

    jm-ashroe-map4.png

    These appear to match - it is the nearest incident of number 9 to Ashroe, and the second map (map 4 in the series) shows the house marked as (a). However, the plots of land A and B aren't delineated, is there a reason that might now have happened?

    P.


Comments

  • #2
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,613 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Hmm, I'm also confused now.

    Have you seen Frances McGee's book on the Valuation Office Records. It's extremely detailed so should provide more background.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #3
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    I’m not an expert on Griffiths but I recall that when amounts of land are listed under one number (9 for Mullowney) it means A and B refer to the soil quality on the site. So A being rated more highly means better quality land than B. Were the fields/land geographically separated they would have individual numbers e.g. 9 and 10. The house is rated 13 shillings, - there is no mention of ‘offices’ which usually applies to sheds, byres, piggeries, etc. so it would appear to be a better class of house.


  • #4
    Cragaun
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Cragaun


    Map 5 of 5 is the one you need to look at for Ashroe. It is the oldest of the maps available and the numbers on Griffiths can be identified. In many cases the original numbers are crossed out and merged into other holdings

    Holdings 9A and 9B are at the north of the townsland at the east side of the road.

    Holding 9A is merged into holding 2A, the squiggle on a field boundary indicates that two holdings are being joined.

    Holding 9B is merged into a new holding 8

    When holdings are shown under one name and number with separate upper case letters attached to distinguish it typically means that these are separate parcels of land. Some reasons for this can be (1) the subdivision of a larger holding required some dexterity, (2) parcels of bogland or corcass meadow which are divided up among local families, (3) a landholder increasing their holding as others leave with land that does not touch their existing holding


    The original house is marked out with an x on the map indicating that it is no longer occupied and most likely is "down". There is no trace of the house now on satellite photos.


  • #5
    Cragaun
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Cragaun


    From my own work on the maps for areas of Limerick, Tipperary & Waterford ....

    I should mention that the number sequence for a townsland on Griffiths should start in the upper left corner (north west) and move east, then start again at the next most north easterly point and move eastwards ..... and repeat.

    If you see a sequence like that on the map you can take it as being an early or possibly original version. The later maps are often much changed as holdings are merged and the original sequence is lost. The coloured maps on the askaboutireland site usually correspond to those held by the valuation office which are marked as first used in 1905.


  • #6
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Cragaun wrote: »
    Map 5 of 5 is the one you need to look at for Ashroe. I .

    Hi there - how do I see map 5? When I go to the relevant area (http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/single_layer/i8.php?lat=&longt=&dum=0&sheet=6,7&mysession=2653786277058&info=&place=&county=LIMERICK&placename=ASHROE&parish=ABINGTON&country=Ireland&union=&barony=OWNEYBEG) I only see 1 to 4 available.

    So - gosh this is confusing - but the numbers shown (ie, in the case, the 9 on the West side of the road) on maps 1 to 4 have nothing to do with the numbers shown in the available valuation? Does those number correspond to a later unpublished valuation.

    P.


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  • #7
    Cragaun
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Cragaun


    The underlying sheet maps join in that area. You will see 5 maps available if you pull the screen across from right to left. Play around with dragging the visible map and you will see 1 to 4 change to 1 to 5. You can then work with it.

    Ignore the numbers on maps 1 to 4, they are later maps of the landholdings on which the original Mallowney holding at 9A & 9B on Griffiths has been merged into other holdings.


  • #8
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Cragaun wrote: »
    The underlying sheet maps join in that area. You will see 5 maps available if you pull the screen across from right to left. Play around with dragging the visible map and you will see 1 to 4 change to 1 to 5. You can then work with it.

    Ignore the numbers on maps 1 to 4, they are later maps of the landholdings on which the original Mallowney holding at 9A & 9B on Griffiths has been merged into other holdings.

    Thanks. So in every case, I should look at map 5? Or only in some cases. I'm still trying to understand, when I look at a GV listing, which map is the correct one. I had previously thought that maps were generally the same. As in, how did you know that map 5 rather than maps 1 to 4 was the correct one?

    P.


  • #9
    Cragaun
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Cragaun


    In any case where multiple maps are available on askaboutireland for Griffiths you need to understand which one you should work with.

    The underlying area map used each time, before annotation, is the same, being the 6inch series of maps produced 1829-1842 (https://www.osi.ie/products/professional-mapping/historical-mapping/)

    Map annotations were maintained and updated as the holdings changed. The corresponding updated lists of the holders of each property (land and/or house etc) are at the Valuation office on Abbey st, Dublin. These are commonly referred to as the Cancelled Books.

    If you are working with the published version of Griffiths, you will need the oldest map. I have seen cases where an older map is not available for a townsland to tie in with Griffiths.

    Here are a few pointers for the oldest map;
    - the coloured maps are for a later update, I have seen the dates for 1905-1913 on the coloured copies I have looked at in the Valuation office
    - the age of the maps does not follow the sequence of numbers on askaboutireland. Number 1 is not necessarily the oldest or the most recent
    - the highest reference number on the Griffiths list should be visible on the map, later maps typically have less holdings as holdings were merged and wont match to the end of the list
    - the reference numbers on the map should start top left (north west) corner and move east then return to the next available top left and continue the sequence moving down (south) on the map
    - the older reference number may appear and be crossed out as the map was being updated, this takes patience to view the map and gain an understanding of the sequence (eg. 9A & 9B in this case)


  • #10
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Thanks Cregaun for the above. Did you ever get anywhere with that App idea for Griffiths you posted about some time ago?


  • #11
    Cragaun
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Cragaun


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Thanks Cregaun for the above. Did you ever get anywhere with that App idea for Griffiths you posted about some time ago?

    I am impressed that you recalled and linked me with that request.

    I made no progress for a long time and left the idea to one side. However I have recently discussed information published for some parishes under the national museum program iCAN which is promising.


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  • #12
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Cragaun wrote: »
    I am impressed that you recalled and linked me with that request.

    I made no progress for a long time and left the idea to one side. However I have recently discussed information published for some parishes under the national museum program iCAN which is promising.


    I remembered it because I've always held the opinion that there is a market for a more user-friendly approach to Griffiths. Including a means of writing coordinates to satnav/GPS to locate plots/houses on Maps. A big issue for most (including me) is that we are infrequent users of Griffiths maps and forget what we have learned in the past and have to start over. The changes to OSI threw me back considerably. A big issue for any app is the number of townlands - more than 2,000 alone in your Co. Limerick


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