Any news on eSIMs in Ireland?

Xertz · 31-01-2020 11:13pm #1

I was just wondering if any of the Irish carriers are beginning to offer eSIMs. They seem to be offered by a lot of carriers in Spain, the UK and quite a large number of other countries.

Any idea why the Irish networks are so slow about this? Some kind of technical issues?

shanec1928 · 03-02-2020 7:32pm

Not bothered. Guarantee if one provider brought them in they would all start.

Xertz · 03-02-2020 8:58pm

I’m noticing a lot of tourists asking for them. They’re fairly widespread in some markets like Spain and you can dual sim the newer iPhones with them.

Xertz · 06-02-2020 3:06pm

If Eir and Gomo are serious about trying trying to pull in SIM only customers, it's a big option for iOS and will be for more handsets this year.

14-02-2020 5:03pm

Xertz wrote: »

I was just wondering if any of the Irish carriers are beginning to offer eSIMs. They seem to be offered by a lot of carriers in Spain, the UK and quite a large number of other countries.

Any idea why the Irish networks are so slow about this? Some kind of technical issues?

there are electricity smart meters being rolled out by ESB Networks and they for sure will be using esims (hardware part in the device) and eUICC (software part) for the IoT meters.

some parts of the consumer side have still to be fully worked out e.g. number porting etc. and probably has not been done for Ireland.

even in markets where is it is available sometimes it's only for limited devices - e.g. apple watches.

I think that one big reason is that they (the operators) don't want the competitive aspects (e.g. could technically change carrier in 5 minutes without having to get a new sim card).

I don't really know what the real reason for the delay in Ireland is. you would think that Comreg should be pushing the agenda on this and saying that they have to be available.

Xertz · 14-02-2020 9:14pm

The likes of Eir is absolutely keen on switching as many people as possible. They're pushing SIM only plans like there's no tomorrow and so is 3. Plenty of people bring their own device these days.

I'd assume it's just an IT issue with the carriers themselves.

They're an open standard, but they can be setup either by entering information manually, scanning a QR code or using a downloaded app that provides the handset with the confirmation settings.

It would mean you could visit Eir.ie and within 10 mins be on their network having signed up and it would cut down on needing to programme and courier out SIM cards.

None of these things are driven by the mobile operators, they buy the solutions off-the-shelf from vendors like Ericsson. In fact, all 3 networks are now using or moving to Ericsson core technologies. But I would assume there are quite a few ways of configuring network side equipment to set this stuff up.

I'm assuming when a few more handset manufacturers start offering it more mobile networks will jump on board. At the moment it's really been seen as something Apple's been pushing, but it is actually a fully open standard. Apple, Samsung, and Google all support it on recent devices (may be disabled on carrier issued ones in the case of Samsung)

billbond4 · 15-02-2020 1:24pm

When the operators start rolling out more 5g as iot will be based on esim
Id say it will be this year, as vodafone support their own esim devices

15-02-2020 4:09pm

Xertz wrote: »

The likes of Eir is absolutely keen on switching as many people as possible. They're pushing SIM only plans like there's no tomorrow and so is 3. Plenty of people bring their own device these days.

I'd assume it's just an IT issue with the carriers themselves.

They're an open standard, but they can be setup either by entering information manually, scanning a QR code or using a downloaded app that provides the handset with the confirmation settings.

It would mean you could visit Eir.ie and within 10 mins be on their network having signed up and it would cut down on needing to programme and courier out SIM cards.

None of these things are driven by the mobile operators, they buy the solutions off-the-shelf from vendors like Ericsson. In fact, all 3 networks are now using or moving to Ericsson core technologies. But I would assume there are quite a few ways of configuring network side equipment to set this stuff up.

I'm assuming when a few more handset manufacturers start offering it more mobile networks will jump on board. At the moment it's really been seen as something Apple's been pushing, but it is actually a fully open standard. Apple, Samsung, and Google all support it on recent devices (may be disabled on carrier issued ones in the case of Samsung)

The technology has been there a long time (3 years plus)for this. It's purely lack of adoption by the MNO's

And actually it's companies like Gemalto that were pioneers here. Not Ericsson.

Xertz · 15-02-2020 7:15pm

I just find the Irish networks very slow to roll out many new techs though. They’re fairly price competitive compared to some of the smaller countries on the continent but they’re rarely innovative with tech and seem ultra conservative about trying new stuff.

15-02-2020 7:52pm

Xertz wrote: »

I just find the Irish networks very slow to roll out many new techs though. They’re fairly price competitive compared to some of the smaller countries on the continent but they’re rarely innovative with tech and seem ultra conservative about trying new stuff.

MNO's see esims more as a threat on the consumer level than an advantage for new opportunities as it would be too easy to switch leading to even more price competition. Apple had a plan to take a cut of selling mobile access from the app store using esims years ago.

As I said esims are already in existence in Ireland for iot / m2m

Xertz · 15-02-2020 10:10pm

It’s hardly a challenge to switch as it is! I’ve done so within a day (where I’ve ordered a sim online) and porting can take as little as 5 mins.

I don’t honestly see how a physical sim can be that big a deal. On prepay you can literally just pick up a sim pack in all sorts of retail outlets and most networks can get you a new sim out by post within 24 hours.

It seems more like they’re just not bothering to rollout the retail technology to do it as it would require website and app developments to process setup.

Most implementations have it automated to the level that you simply require you to scan a QR code with the phone camera and go through a verification step or download an app. You can also enter the details manually.

eSIM for IoT is a somewhat different product in terms of how it’s sold and setup.

16-02-2020 12:07am

Xertz wrote: »

It’s hardly a challenge to switch as it is! I’ve done so within a day (where I’ve ordered a sim online) and porting can take as little as 5 mins.

I don’t honestly see how a physical sim can be that big a deal. On prepay you can literally just pick up a sim pack in all sorts of retail outlets and most networks can get you a new sim out by post within 24 hours.

It seems more like they’re just not bothering to rollout the retail technology to do it as it would require website and app developments to process setup.

Most implementations have it automated to the level that you simply require you to scan a QR code with the phone camera and go through a verification step or download an app. You can also enter the details manually.

eSIM for IoT is a somewhat different product in terms of how it’s sold and setup.

re Iot - the setup is not really that different and the ability to switch providers is the very reason that IoT needs to have it.

e.g. retender comms supplier without sending people out to change 2 million sim cards.

yes it's easy to switch providers now but you still have to go and get or order a physical sim card and swap it. that is a lot more involved compared to just clicking a button on a web page or an app.

another factor at the moment really is that only a small number of phones and popular consumer devices (apple and a few android phones) support esims.

for a market the size of Ireland may not be worth it.

Xertz · 16-02-2020 12:04pm

On the Ericsson point - they launched an eSIM solution back in January of this year. It’s aimed at making rollout of the tech and activation etc easier and fully automated.

https://www.ericsson.com/en/news/2020/1/esim-launch

As for the size of the Irish market - it may be small but it’s very lucrative. All of these things are highly scalable.

A dominant player may not want easy switching, but Eir and the MVNOs are hungry for business. Any new channel, if cost effective, is worth considering and eSIMs offer potential cost reduction and easier switching.

Ireland’s also never been a market with big barriers to switching. The porting system here has been extremely rapid from day one. In a lot of markets there was much more foot dragging and complicated, slow, manual processes that made switching networks into an ordeal. We don’t have that history. Porting has been rapid or even close to instant (glitches aside).

It just seems like an ideal product for those aggressively marketed SIM only plans from Eir and others who are seeking market share and it also would make them attractive to newer iPhones and high end android devices.

Anyway, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the marketing opportunities vs the threat.

16-02-2020 1:52pm

it's only the latest generation iphones and on android recent google pixels and the latest Samsung S20 (just coming out and very very expensive) that support this from phone point of view. that leaves the vast majority of phones being used in Ireland having no use for this. at least 90% and probably more.

Talking about devices you have the apple watch and samsung watch plus a small number of other devices that only a small number of people have and smaller number yet again willing to pay another subscription plan just for watch cell connectivity.

just not worth it yet really I think, particularly in the Irish market which is small really - will see adoption when this is present in more phones and in the lower and mid-range phone segments.

listermint · 16-02-2020 1:56pm

There's no market for this yet . The devices are not ubiquitous

Tiger Roll · 16-02-2020 2:18pm

If the device has e sim capability , does this stop networks from locking the device to their sim cards only?

16-02-2020 2:23pm

Tiger Roll wrote: »

If the device has e sim capability , does this stop networks from locking the device to their sim cards only?

no. phones can and are (if bought on contract) network locked. the apple phones certainly are. devices could be also.

in any case, there are no phones with only esim capability out there - the ones with the capability also can take a sim card.

there are devices with only esim capability - e.g. apple and samsung watches.

Xertz · 16-02-2020 3:23pm

Apple : All their more recent iOS devices and Watch.
Samsung: S20 and Galaxy Z Flip
Google: recent pixel phones.
Motorola new Razr
Software support built into Windows 10.

So you can use it for a dual SIM 2nd line / business line on most of those devices along side a traditional SIM or you can use and swap multiple eSIMs

Also if you've say an iPhone 11 you can just download e.g. T-Mobile USA's prepay app on the App store and fire up a US number while there.

16-02-2020 3:33pm

Xertz wrote: »

Apple : All their more recent iOS devices and Watch.
Samsung: S20 and Galaxy Z Flip
Google: recent pixel phones.
Motorola new Razr
Software support built into Windows 10.

So you can use it for a dual SIM 2nd line / business line on most of those devices along side a traditional SIM or you can use and swap multiple eSIMs

Also if you've say an iPhone 11 you can just download e.g. T-Mobile USA's prepay app on the App store and fire up a US number while there.

yes most of these phones(aside from the pixels) range from 1000 to 1500 euro in price to buy and are very new.

if you take 4 million smart phones in Irleland I would say that it's 5% to 10% max with esim capability (closer to 5% I would say) but taking 7.5% to include other devices that's less than 300,000 total devices max.

there is also a tourist market but it's very short-term so not significant.

then you have how many people out of those devices would actually use e-sim.

1/3 maybe.

that's 100,000 devices.

across all the network providers. 33,000 each for each network as a rough number.

not worth doing and won't be done until the number grows.

meanwhile there are many many more phones out there now with dual-sim capability and from 100 euro in price that offer the flexibility of having more than one line active. dual-sim capability is currently a lot more useful than e-sim capability to be honest as it's usable everywhere.

Xertz · 16-02-2020 4:02pm

Spain seems to have adopted it in a big way although porting numbers over there is worse than trying to get an appointment with the HSE.

Ireland's porting system's somewhat under appreciated in how simple it is.

dermiestv · 08-07-2020 5:00pm

Sorry to dig up an old thread but having read the replies, I was wondering if anyone has experience of any of the international eSim providers that work in Ireland? Data is my main interest.

Companies such as eSim.net, MobalityPass.com or any of these? https://esimdb.com/region/europe

Or could we use a UK eSIM provider such as EE? Buy one in the North and then use it here?

Cork981 · 08-07-2020 11:20pm

dermiestv wrote: »

Sorry to dig up an old thread but having read the replies, I was wondering if anyone has experience of any of the international eSim providers that work in Ireland? Data is my main interest.

Companies such as eSim.net, MobalityPass.com or any of these? https://esimdb.com/region/europe

Or could we use a UK eSIM provider such as EE? Buy one in the North and then use it here?

I’m using an esim from Truphone which gives 4G access to the Vodafone network and an Eir SIM card as my primary provider.

The €3/month deal with Truphone has a 3GB allowance but I only use it as a backup in areas Eir are weak which admittedly is decreasing rapidly.

dermiestv · 09-07-2020 2:46pm

Thanks very much.

Interesting to see the 2 networks on one phone and that price is reasonable

peejay1986 · 16-09-2020 4:45pm

Sorry to dig up this thread, but I'm looking for an eSIM solution to purely receive calls from UK, at no additional cost to those calling me. Option to send a (very!) rare SMS would also be useful, but not essential.

Similar to above, I've looked at eSIM.net but just not sure how it works. Anyone any first hand experience or recommendations?

dermiestv · 16-09-2020 5:25pm

I've used the €3/month deal with Truphone for data on iPhone XRs. It works great and is very simple - just download the app and it installs the eSIM. €5 for 5GB.

Haven't used it for calls but it provides a UK number for the secondary (eSIM) line so should be no problem. There is a trial allowance so you can try it out first.

peejay1986 · 16-09-2020 9:59pm

dermiestv wrote: »

I've used the €3/month deal with Truphone for data on iPhone XRs. It works great and is very simple - just download the app and it installs the eSIM. €5 for 5GB.

Haven't used it for calls but it provides a UK number for the secondary (eSIM) line so should be no problem. There is a trial allowance so you can try it out first.

Annoyingly I'm not able to download the app as it says it's not compatible with my device - probably because my current phone hasn't an eSIM function?

Trying to suss all this out before buying a dual SIM phone with one physical slot and one eSIM.

Is it a case of topping up monthly to keep the SIM active? As I said, I'm only really looking to be able to receive calls.

dermiestv · 17-09-2020 8:15am

peejay1986 wrote: »

Is it a case of topping up monthly to keep the SIM active? .

Yes, you can set up automatic monthly renewals but it is also possible to top up within a month if you've used all the allowance.
Or you can use if for just one month if you want. Thats a low cost way to try it out to see if it meets your needs

rossf961 · 19-09-2020 8:43am

dermiestv wrote: »

I've used the €3/month deal with Truphone for data on iPhone XRs. It works great and is very simple - just download the app and it installs the eSIM. €5 for 5GB.

Haven't used it for calls but it provides a UK number for the secondary (eSIM) line so should be no problem. There is a trial allowance so you can try it out first.

Can I download the app on an Apple Watch and achieve the same result without having a supporting iPhone?

dermiestv · 19-09-2020 12:13pm

rossf961 wrote: »

Can I download the app on an Apple Watch and achieve the same result without having a supporting iPhone?

According to this, they've launched an Apple Watch service for some European countries which includes a 7 day free trial but not sure if it'll work in RoI.
https://www.truphone.com/consumer/esim-for-watch/

or .https://www.truphone.com/about/newsroom/truphone-launches-family-setup-support-for-apple-watch/

One way to find out....

DopeTech · 09-01-2021 3:11pm

Any sign of 3 launching esim support in ireland? I know they have it in the uk.

Craigels · 19-02-2021 4:26pm

Eir are launching esim soon

Any news on eSIMs in Ireland?

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