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Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

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    #1592
    Froshtbit
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Froshtbit


    On a imilar note, has anyody ever had any knee problems from grapevining your legs round the uke's in mount? Or hooks in backmount. I always body triangle in backmount these days because it feels so wrong.My right constantly makes popping sounds nowadays.


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    #1593
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    Froshtbit wrote: »
    On a imilar note, has anyody ever had any knee problems from grapevining your legs round the uke's in mount? Or hooks in backmount. I always body triangle in backmount these days because it feels so wrong.My right constantly makes popping sounds nowadays.

    Yes, several years ago.

    I put the hooks in to flatten the guy out from mount. My opponent was a beginner, quite strong and very spazzy.

    His response to the hooks was to explosively straighten his legs, bringing mine along with him. There was a loud 'pop' and my right knee was injured. I rolled off him, said 'Thanks', stood up and hobbled off the mats. I don't think he knew anything had gone wrong.

    Anyway, grade 2 MCL tear and my knee had dislocated. It popped back into position straight away, however, when I rolled off him.

    Took a few months to get right.


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    #1594
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    I was fighting out of an ankle lock and ended up with a sort of reverse body triangle, knee has been at me ever since. If I have my leg tucked under my chair when I'm sitting down, I'll have a limp for a few minutes and won't be able to put any weight on it.

    Probably not helped by both my knees constantly clicking when I bend them.


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    #1595
    Black Sheep
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    As with a lot of training-related problems, if the damage can't be undone (and this is sometimes the case with ligaments and disc issues, they're with you for good, particularly if you're of a certain age) then the best you can shoot for is to be functional and pain free. Completely from a layman perspective here, but if the muscles get strong around a bad knee then the knee is for all intents and purposes pretty good to go even if there was an injury previously. If there's a problem disc, same thing applies, a strong back or a strong neck is the best way to address it.


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    #1596
    Clive
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    Froshtbit wrote: »
    On a imilar note, has anyody ever had any knee problems from grapevining your legs round the uke's in mount? Or hooks in backmount. I always body triangle in backmount these days because it feels so wrong.My right constantly makes popping sounds nowadays.

    Not from the back, but I never use the "toes out" style of grapevine from mount (hooking the shins) because it feels like an injury waiting to happen.


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    #1597
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Black Sheep wrote: »
    As with a lot of training-related problems, if the damage can't be undone (and this is sometimes the case with ligaments and disc issues, they're with you for good, particularly if you're of a certain age) then the best you can shoot for is to be functional and pain free. Completely from a layman perspective here, but if the muscles get strong around a bad knee then the knee is for all intents and purposes pretty good to go even if there was an injury previously. If there's a problem disc, same thing applies, a strong back or a strong neck is the best way to address it.

    This is true, I had both my ACL done and both have never been right… they say it ages the knee by 20 years.

    I have learned to adapt my style to suit my capabilities and I am conscious of trapping my legs or putting them in bad places so I tend not to put myself in such positions. It hasn’t really affected my ability, I have managed to work around this and found my own style. I am working a lot with De La Riva and X guard as it feels comfortable for me and gives me control over what my opponent can do as it anchors my legs to their hips.

    I wouldn’t fret about it, it’s just life and your game will evolve to suit what you are capable of if you put the time in and are willing to experiment. Right now, I am dealing with a rotator cuff injury, been at me for about 8 months and I know I should take some time off, but it’s not at the point where I have to. I am going back to do some S&C in the mornings as I feel this will help but I also know that I am getting older so these things will happen.


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    #1598
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Clive wrote: »
    Not from the back, but I never use the "toes out" style of grapevine from mount (hooking the shins) because it feels like an injury waiting to happen.

    I only rarely use that from mount, usually when my opponent is bucking a lot (white belts), I don't see the point in tying your own legs up and limiting your movement when you are in a position of dominance.


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    #1599
    veganrun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭veganrun


    My rotator cuff is giving me trouble too. I injured it years ago in the gym but after some physio sessions and exercises, it was grand again until recently. I would have left it but I knew from the last time that it wasn't getting better even after 6 or 7 weeks of complete rest and no exercise and I didn't want it to get worse. Physio told me today I can resume some light weights and gentle punching/kickboxing but no overhead shoulder presses or anything that triggers the pain.

    I'm hoping to build better upper body strength and muscle as I feel like I have none. My legs have really developed from cycling over the last year. Wished I had started upper body work the same time.


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    #1600
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Anybody at the Lachlan Giles seminar in Royal Grappling academy? Excellant competitor and instructor


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    #1601
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Mellor wrote: »
    The missus is flying home later this month, im on my tod for 5 weeks. I might move into the gym.

    Increased training was going well. In the 10 days after my missus left, I trained 8 time. But last week I got my baby toe stuck in jigsaw mats rolling and had to take a few days off. I thought a broke it, as I could move it way out to the side.
    Doctor reckons it's not broke, but either dislocated which sprain or tore the ligaments. Might heal on its own, might not.


    Tapped it up and competed at the weekend anyway. Took out silver in my division with 3 submissions. Lost first match of openweight though. Ups and downs I guess.


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    #1602
    Froshtbit
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Froshtbit


    A story and a question.


    I currently live abroad. I have a very basic grasp of the language. I can understand a lot but not communicate well. I've been training over here. It's a whole new level of focus to translate and apply new techniques in a language I'm struggling to learn. Anyway, I accidently an MMA grappling class.

    It was great. It was also my second time there and I was the only guy wearing a kimono because I had misunderstood my coach's message. Long story short, my coach decided at the end of class to do a modified shark tank on me.

    Most of the attendees were not experienced in grappling but were in striking so my job was to be the uke for a rotating rounds of newbies.
    I could only sit in butterfly guard, they had to stand. I was not allowed to engage them on the feet, just sweeps from my ass. It was my job to submit them, it was their job to attain dominant position where they could TKO me. IE: I couldnt turtle, couldnt be mounted for more than 3 seconds, could be pinned in side control and I couldnt stall in closed guard without breaking posture and sweeping or subbing. THey did this one at a time while the others were drilling a takedown / sprawl.

    It was without a doubt the most fun I've ever had in a training session in my life. It was amazing, I'd love it to be a regular drill. But....
    There was a teenager there about 17 or so. He was lighter than me, which is already weird for me as I'm tiny.

    Anyway, I got him in side-control and locked an americana on him, I was cranking it slowly and he wasnt tapping, I had just decided to let it go and try something else when he exploded the WRONG WAY as in he twisted his whole body towards me, explosively. I let go as soon as I realised what he was doing.
    He tried to tough it out but I'm fairly sure he's injured. I asked him a few times if he was ok but he ignored me. I'm not sure it he really understood me.

    I mentioned it to the intructors as well, who did understand me, but he claimed he was fine. When he thought nobody was looking, I saw him wince and clutch his shoulder.
    I don't really know what to think. What if I ****ed his shoulder up? Been there / am currently there and it's not fun. What responsiblity should I feel about it and what ,if anything, can I do?


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    #1603
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Froshtbit wrote: »
    It was without a doubt the most fun I've ever had in a training session in my life. It was amazing, I'd love it to be a regular drill. But....
    Ive done a similar drill. Guy on bottom has to sweep or sub. Guy on top has to pass to side, mount, etc



    As for the guy with the shoulder, sounds like it was clearly his fault. It's normal to feel bad when that happens, but if somebody decides to injury themselves, you can't always stop them. I've had to bail on a number of heel hooks because of people doing the same kinda thing.
    It's baffling, but some people, when stuck in a spot where they don't know what to do - would rather explode randomly than concede a tap.


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    #1604
    Froshtbit
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Froshtbit


    Yeah, but he could strike and I couldnt. It really tightens you your clinch.
    Thanks.If you are who I think you are, I was wearing one of your kimonos. I got asked a lot if I trained with McGregor. :P

    Heelhooks are amazing but so misunderstood. I tap when the guy has raised my foot and I cant replant it. I think it's the fear of them that leads to injury.


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    #1605
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Froshtbit wrote: »
    Thanks.If you are who I think you are, I was wearing one of your kimonos. I got asked a lot if I trained with McGregor. :P
    Nah not me, but guessing Roborat from Wolfhound.
    I also wear the same gi, so might have seen me tagged wearing it.
    Heelhooks are amazing but so misunderstood. I tap when the guy has raised my foot and I cant replant it. I think it's the fear of them that leads to injury.
    Fear leads to panic, panic leads to spazzing, spazzing leads to injury.

    If you learn how to attack them, you'll also learn when you are safe, even if stuck and unable to plant.


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    #1606
    Froshtbit
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Froshtbit


    I trained exclusively no-gi for a long time. Leg locks were as common as guard pulls. The 2 cues I learned for defending heelhooks were cleaing your knee or planting your foot. It helped immensely and removed a lot of the fear associated with it.


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    #1607
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    Absolutely the other guys fault, you were already going to let off and by the sounds of it, tried to disengage as quickly as you could when you realised what he was at.

    Do you know if he was training long? Someone with a bit of experience should know to either just tap and learn or not to spin the wrong way into an Americana.


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    #1608
    Froshtbit
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Froshtbit


    He was newish in as much as he knew what he needed to do.


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    #1609
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Fcuk him, I have lost my patience and sympathy for fools who won't tap or do silly things. I see it as the BJJ version of Darwinism, the idiots get injured and the cull begins. It may seem harsh and this is not directed in any way towards newbies, it's people watching the UFC and thinking they have garnered enough knowledge to roll out of a kimura or leg lock rather than accepting the situation, tapping and figuring out how to escape with the assistance of their instructor/ partner.

    It's the bull in a china shop approach to BJJ that pisses me off, people looking for belts rather than knowledge, focusing on the end rather than enjoying the journey. I have no problem with people using youtube to pick up things but when it's applied in a ham fisted manner by people who don't know the basics, that's how injuries happen.

    My advice to newbies is simple, treat BJJ like a video game. If you go into expert level armed with a stick you're going to get your ass whooped and teabagged a lot. Best to start off in the novice level and develop your skills, learn how to use the controls before trying to do intricate moves and always remember, there is no cheat code in BJJ.


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    #1610
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    RoboRat wrote: »
    Fcuk him, I have lost my patience and sympathy for fools who won't tap or do silly things. I see it as the BJJ version of Darwinism, the idiots get injured and the cull begins. It may seem harsh and this is not directed in any way towards newbies, it's people watching the UFC and thinking they have garnered enough knowledge to roll out of a kimura or leg lock rather than accepting the situation, tapping and figuring out how to escape with the assistance of their instructor/ partner.

    It's the bull in a china shop approach to BJJ that pisses me off, people looking for belts rather than knowledge, focusing on the end rather than enjoying the journey. I have no problem with people using youtube to pick up things but when it's applied in a ham fisted manner by people who don't know the basics, that's how injuries happen.

    My advice to newbies is simple, treat BJJ like a video game. If you go into expert level armed with a stick you're going to get your ass whooped and teabagged a lot. Best to start off in the novice level and develop your skills, learn how to use the controls before trying to do intricate moves and always remember, there is no cheat code in BJJ.
    Suppose you could class north south Kimuras as teabagging, sort of ha


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    #1611
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    So, last night rolling with a team mate, I had a deep Americana sunk in and he wasn't tapping, I warned him that he was going to break his arm and he said he was OK despite making all kinds of faces - it was a couple of millimeters from breaking and I didn't want to crank it anymore as I wouldn't be able to control it.

    Anyhow, I let up the pressure as I really didn't want to be the guy who obliterated his elbow and he stepped over and armbarred me. This is the second time I have eased up tight submissions and he has subbed me as a result. I don't care about being subbed by a lower belt but I am refusing to roll with this guy anymore.


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    #1612
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,727 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    RoboRat wrote: »
    So, last night rolling with a team mate, I had a deep Americana sunk in and he wasn't tapping, I warned him that he was going to break his arm and he said he was OK despite making all kinds of faces - it was a couple of millimeters from breaking and I didn't want to crank it anymore as I wouldn't be able to control it.

    Anyhow, I let up the pressure as I really didn't want to be the guy who obliterated his elbow and he stepped over and armbarred me. This is the second time I have eased up tight submissions and he has subbed me as a result. I don't care about being subbed by a lower belt but I am refusing to roll with this guy anymore.

    It’s his responsibility. You gave him fair warning. If he’s stupid enough to put his elbow at risk then he deserves it.


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    #1613
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    RoboRat wrote: »
    So, last night rolling with a team mate, I had a deep Americana sunk in and he wasn't tapping, I warned him that he was going to break his arm and he said he was OK despite making all kinds of faces - it was a couple of millimeters from breaking and I didn't want to crank it anymore as I wouldn't be able to control it.

    Anyhow, I let up the pressure as I really didn't want to be the guy who obliterated his elbow and he stepped over and armbarred me. This is the second time I have eased up tight submissions and he has subbed me as a result. I don't care about being subbed by a lower belt but I am refusing to roll with this guy anymore.
    Ah, that guy.

    We were doing guard passing shark tank one evening ,chap passes mine and gets to side control, so I stop as he has passed, and go to sit up for the next person.
    Instead he takes my back and tries a RNC.
    I fight this and he stops after a few seconds, I think he's copped on so relax a bit, only to end up getting a fairly flung on armbar, the kind that can damage elbows from being yanked back so quickly..

    Certain people can be proper gob****es when you're rolling/drilling


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    #1614
    Froshtbit
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Froshtbit


    RoboRat wrote: »
    So, last night rolling with a team mate, I had a deep Americana sunk in and he wasn't tapping, I warned him that he was going to break his arm and he said he was OK despite making all kinds of faces - it was a couple of millimeters from breaking and I didn't want to crank it anymore as I wouldn't be able to control it.

    Anyhow, I let up the pressure as I really didn't want to be the guy who obliterated his elbow and he stepped over and armbarred me. This is the second time I have eased up tight submissions and he has subbed me as a result. I don't care about being subbed by a lower belt but I am refusing to roll with this guy anymore.
    Infuriating


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    #1615
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Tazzimus wrote: »
    Ah, that guy.

    We were doing guard passing shark tank one evening ,chap passes mine and gets to side control, so I stop as he has passed, and go to sit up for the next person.
    Instead he takes my back and tries a RNC.
    I fight this and he stops after a few seconds, I think he's copped on so relax a bit, only to end up getting a fairly flung on armbar, the kind that can damage elbows from being yanked back so quickly..

    Certain people can be proper gob****es when you're rolling/drilling

    That guy is completely to blame for not following the drill. But by fighting his backtake/RNC you are just validating his bull****.
    Best to just tap, or better yet, say loudly "stop, what are you doing, guard passing only". Just shut it down.


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    #1616
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1617
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Bragging about catching somebody who is letting you work. lol. What a dumbass.
    I'd go straight jacket and put the RNC on fast. See if he can remember how to tap without his arms


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    #1618
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Palhares can't make 185lbs. So they asked to make it 200lbs, day before weigh-in. Fight is in 3 days.
    Craig Jones agreed. :eek:


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    #1619
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    Mellor wrote: »
    That guy is completely to blame for not following the drill. But by fighting his backtake/RNC you are just validating his bull****.
    Best to just tap, or better yet, say loudly "stop, what are you doing, guard passing only". Just shut it down.
    He caught me by surprise so I just reacted on instinct :)

    The armbar I just tapped to straight away so he'd **** off


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    #1620
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    It’s his responsibility. You gave him fair warning. If he’s stupid enough to put his elbow at risk then he deserves it.
    As long as he is not a white belt you should have finished the sub. As long as you put the pressure on in a controlled manner he can have no complaints if it breaks. Americanas are a funny one, Ill be honest and say I probably would never tap to one either as they are so hard to lock in right and finish.

    I already blew a lads ACL when taking him down, he tried to walk through it and got turned badly. It was his fault but if I do another lads elbow I will become that guy nobody wants to roll with. Whilst I wanted to just crank it, I also have to remember this is rolling and I don't want to fcuk a guys arm up for life to prove a point.

    I'm training tonight and I am undecided as to whether I am going to maul him or just politely refuse.


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    #1621
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    By the sounds of it you don't have too much trouble controlling him, nice heavy pressure game maybe? Won't hurt him as such, but you won't be easing up on him either to get caught again, and not really much danger of breaking something that way if he's being stubborn.


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