Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

Gimme A Pound · 03-07-2019 10:15am

Can someone answer me this: why do some people get so upset and angry over someone being vegan? Literally just because they don't eat meat/animal products.

Someone called them guttersnipes

- could anyone explain what the unadulterated rage is about?

I'm not talking about people who don't stop talking about being vegan (although that's a myth - you're far more likely to hear that tedious cliche about vegans always talking about being vegan... than to actually hear vegans always talking about being vegan) - just the hatred towards people who are vegan full stop. It's a bizarre reason to hate. I eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy - and strangers not doing so has precisely zero effect on me. It leaves more of those foods for me.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou - I just genuinely don't understand it. I get people saying they couldn't follow a vegan diet (I know I couldn't) but any negativity beyond that just for the lifestyle alone seems like misplaced anger/a bandwagon.

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 10:20am

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Someone called them guttersnipes - could anyone explain what the unadulterated rage is about?

That was just weird, I doubt he encounters many vegans in Darndale where I think he lives

topper75 · 03-07-2019 10:57am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm pretty sure 30% or so of India is vegetarian. The planet would be a better place if we all ate less meat. The seas are almost out of fish too.

I put fish down to a harvesting methods issue, rather than an excessive consumption issue. Consumption of fish is relatively low here in Ireland. Many don't touch it at all. The sea would feed us all no problem indefinitely if we harvested sustainably.

03-07-2019 10:59am

What other people eat is none of my business (as long as it's legal!), and vice versa.

Live and let live, folks. Life is too short to get into a bubbly fury over what someone you don't know has on their dinner plate.

Also India is a huge and diverse place and calling it a kip is like calling Ireland or all Europe a kip because there is serious poverty in Romania and murders in Greece. Except that India is bigger and more populous so it's even more of a generalization.

03-07-2019 11:01am

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Can someone answer me this: why do some people get so upset and angry over someone being vegan? Literally just because they don't eat meat/animal products.

Someone called them guttersnipes - could anyone explain what the unadulterated rage is about?

I'm not talking about people who don't stop talking about being vegan (although that's a myth - you're far more likely to hear that tedious cliche about vegans always talking about being vegan... than to actually hear vegans always talking about being vegan) - just the hatred towards people who are vegan full stop. It's a bizarre reason to hate. I eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy - and strangers not doing so has precisely zero effect on me. It leaves more of those foods for me.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou - I just genuinely don't understand it. I get people saying they couldn't follow a vegan diet (I know I couldn't) but any negativity beyond that just for the lifestyle alone seems like misplaced anger/a bandwagon.

Money.

Seems to be mostly people that will be hit in their pocket that are concerned and that concern manifests into hatred.

The rest are just comically challenged and love the ‘how do you know if someone is vegan’ gag.

gozunda · 03-07-2019 11:04am

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

....you're far more likely to hear that tedious cliche about vegans always talking about being vegan... than to actually hear vegans always talking about being vegan) - ...

I'm not trying to be holier than thou - I just genuinely don't understand it. I get people saying they couldn't follow a vegan diet (I know I couldn't) but any negativity beyond that just for the lifestyle alone seems like misplaced anger/a bandwagon.

You see that's the urban myth right there. As the OP said they are being bombarded with this stuff all over social media.

The last time that this idea that it's 'meat eaters" being in your face, was shown to be rubbish - that was declared an "attack' on vegans. You couldn't make it up. And thats the problem. Disagree with any of claim even as inocuous as this and likly get steamrolled.

When those eating a normal diet are being called 'murderers' and family run shops are being targeted by extremists then for sure it's going to get a reaction and not always a good one.

Plenty of nice vegans I'm sure . Unfortunately its the small number of screamers which foster the negativity

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 11:37am

topper75 wrote: »

I put fish down to a harvesting methods issue, rather than an excessive consumption issue. Consumption of fish is relatively low here in Ireland. Many don't touch it at all. The sea would feed us all no problem indefinitely if we harvested sustainably.

Yeah Irish people aren't too keen on seafood and fish compared to the rest of Europe, which is odd given we're an island. We export nearly everything we catch to Spain etc.
When I was a kid we could fish in Dalkey and pull in 80 mackerel no problem in September with feathers. I went a couple of years ago and didn't get a bite.

Here's a good letter to the Irish Times about the issue of the state of our seas

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/destruction-of-marine-biodiversity-on-beara-peninsula-1.3940704

Mad_maxx · 03-07-2019 11:41am

topper75 wrote: »

I put fish down to a harvesting methods issue, rather than an excessive consumption issue. Consumption of fish is relatively low here in Ireland. Many don't touch it at all. The sea would feed us all no problem indefinitely if we harvested sustainably.

I'd eat fish quicker than meat, love it

Plumbthedepths · 03-07-2019 11:41am

I have no issue with a person being a vegan, but when they impose their morals on a dog or a cat they can f**k right off.

Boggles · 03-07-2019 11:54am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

When you read literature from the past with animals in it. It's clear people thought they had feelings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKTPCOOyiZk

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 03-07-2019 12:03pm

Don't want to be messing with evolution, I'm off to sh1t outside, hunt and gather my food and die from a broken leg if childbirth doesn't get me first!

Gimme A Pound · 03-07-2019 12:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Money.

Seems to be mostly people that will be hit in their pocket that are concerned and that concern manifests into hatred.

The rest are just comically challenged and love the ‘how do you know if someone is vegan’ gag.

They think they are the funniest, wittiest ****ers ever - even though the joke is about 15 years old!

Anyway, of course preachy aggressive vegans can be odious - like any preachy aggressive people can be - but I'm talking about the hatred of people who simply follow a vegan diet, nothing more.

wexandproud · 03-07-2019 12:32pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The seas are almost out of fish too.

And some vegans are the one's trying to convince others that's true . only a couple of months ago ices have admitted their model for calculating mackeral stocks was flawed and have revised upwards by about 2 million tonnes the stock of north east atlantic mackeral . only after sustained pressure from fisherman on the ground were seeing huge shoals of fish . Same with lots of other fish species huge stocks on the ground and being caught and thrown back dead in the name of conservation .

gormdubhgorm · 03-07-2019 12:37pm

dartboardio wrote: »

I am bombarded with facebook posts from vegan peers, convincing me to 'wake up' to what we are putting 'innocent' animals through etc etc.

Can someone please enlighten me?

I have my fair share of vegan and non vegan tips i agree and don't agree with,

However just fail to understand why there is a minority trying to change the world as we know it,

As far as I'm concerned, killing animals has gone back hundreds of thousands of years and will continue to do so, thats, in my opinion, what animals are here for.

I'm really not one of those 'anti vegan' I respect and value the information I gather from these people while I make my decision as to whether or whether not killing animals is a positive thing in terms of morals

But surely morals don't come into it? We are animals and animals are here for us to kill and eat, surely suggesting anything else is being in denial of what or who we truly are?

When down the line of humanity did all of a sudden people begin to think animals had feelings? Why are people only saying this in the last few years?

As far as I am concerned I will continue to eat, and agree with animals being eaten, for the rest of my life as will my children (if I have that influence)

At the risk of derailing the thread - it amuses me that most vegan's seem to be the 'ultra feminist pro-choice' types on the net in particular.
I would love to see statistics on how many of them are pro-choice.
They worry about the 'lovely cute defenseless innocent animals' yet at the same time they are pro-choice.
This dichotomy always amuses me - in your head you have to decide it is not human 'yet' / or for it's own good.
But on the other hand eating meat is immoral?
I don't really get it.

Good debate on it here by a vegan:

I suppose you could call me 'pro-meat choice'.
The meat is going to a 'better place' as far as I am concerned.

Personally, I view animals just as a natural food source, plus it has the natural protein iron vitamins that the vegans, will have to take artificially.
Plus humans are top of the food chain, that is the way the world works.

Also I find many of the environmental arguments of the vegans disingenuous.
As many of thier cohort are into travelling worldwide and travel by plane!
They are into nature and all that craic, yet they have to take artificial sources to supplement thier diet - made in a lab. Nothing 'natural' about that to me.

The whole thing is just gas to me, when I think about it.

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 12:41pm

The absolute ridiculous assumptions about vegans made on these threads are just getting more and more ridiculous. Cyclists, pro-choice, feminists, climate change activists, anything like this are just grouped together as vegans by certain people.
I've met all walks of life throughout the years but I'm not sure if I've ever met a vegan, apparently they would have told me if they were one. Anyway, I'm having some turkey for lunch in the park now, have a nice day everyone.

_Brian · 03-07-2019 12:41pm

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Can someone answer me this: why do some people get so upset and angry over someone being vegan? Literally just because they don't eat meat/animal products.

Someone called them guttersnipes - could anyone explain what the unadulterated rage is about?

I'm not talking about people who don't stop talking about being vegan (although that's a myth - you're far more likely to hear that tedious cliche about vegans always talking about being vegan... than to actually hear vegans always talking about being vegan) - just the hatred towards people who are vegan full stop. It's a bizarre reason to hate. I eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy - and strangers not doing so has precisely zero effect on me. It leaves more of those foods for me.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou - I just genuinely don't understand it. I get people saying they couldn't follow a vegan diet (I know I couldn't) but any negativity beyond that just for the lifestyle alone seems like misplaced anger/a bandwagon.

I’ve a problem with extremist vegan groups, your average vegan is of no interest to me, they’re just doing their own thing which is what we all have a right to do without abuse or ridicule or anybody trying to take our choices away from us.

auspicious · 03-07-2019 12:42pm

dartboardio wrote: »

But surely morals don't come into it? We are animals...

When... did people begin to think animals had feelings?...

From the get go. We have always known. It is just inconvenient for many to realise it.

Empathy is an integral cornerstone of human society. Apathy halts societal progress.

Say my name · 03-07-2019 1:06pm

Whatever about animals. I have them myself and they're contributing hugely to saving carbon in my soils. Does anyone think about the human consequences of food production?
Farms in southern Italy are being effectively worked with "slave labour" with migrants from Africa with papers held by mafia rings and sleeping in substandard labour camps to bring tomatoes worth 30cents in Tesco.
Legitimate farmers are going out of business because of people's spending habits.

gormdubhgorm · 03-07-2019 1:50pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The absolute ridiculous assumptions about vegans made on these threads are just getting more and more ridiculous. Cyclists, pro-choice, feminists, climate change activists, anything like this are just grouped together as vegans by certain people.
I've met all walks of life throughout the years but I'm not sure if I've ever met a vegan, apparently they would have told me if they were one. Anyway, I'm having some turkey for lunch in the park now, have a nice day everyone.

Ah come on there is some truth to the stereotypes - socio-economic backgrounds, worldview etc.
Most would tick certain boxes.
Any vegan I know or met ticks the majority of the sterotypes, they are all just not as vocal as the extreme groups.

Most vegans are likely most of the following - female/gay/environmentally conscious/feminist/upper middle class (they have money)/urban/animal lovers/more likely to be pro-choice imo (need stats for the last one).

Paul McCartney does not tick the first two for example, but that is the general cohort.
There are other exceptions due to dietary requirements/religion etc

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 2:07pm

Say my name wrote: »

Farms in southern Italy are being effectively worked with "slave labour" with migrants from Africa with papers held by mafia rings and sleeping in substandard labour camps to bring tomatoes worth 30cents in Tesco.
Legitimate farmers are going out of business because of people's spending habits.

I honestly think people care more about animals than African slave migrants. When you have people in the media calling them "cockroaches" it just shows how they're viewed by the rich.

03-07-2019 2:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I honestly think people care more about animals than African slave migrants. When you have people in the media calling them "cockroaches" it just shows how they're viewed by the rich.

Not just the rich. Most people on benefits are as decent and honest as anyone can be, but there's a demographic within the whole that sees welfare as a hammock instead of a safety net, and deeply resent 'their' money benefiting migrants when they feel it should be spent on themselves. The 'they took our jobs' stereotype often applies more to the long term unemployed by choice than the working poor.

Calling human beings cockroaches says more about the person using that terminology than anything else.

ShlugEireann · 03-07-2019 2:26pm

What do vegans think of nature where larger animals eat smaller ones?

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 2:27pm

ShlugEireann wrote: »

What do vegans think of nature where larger animals eat smaller ones?

Zzzzzzzz

Say my name · 03-07-2019 2:29pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I honestly think people care more about animals than African slave migrants. When you have people in the media calling them "cockroaches" it just shows how they're viewed by the rich.

That's an inadequacy in people.

There's an interesting article about it here.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/20/tomatoes-italy-mafia-migrant-labour-modern-slavery

The legitimate farmers can't post on social media for fear of having tractors and machinery stolen by the mafia's.

Boggles · 03-07-2019 2:41pm

Say my name wrote: »

Whatever about animals. I have them myself and they're contributing hugely to saving carbon in my soils. Does anyone think about the human consequences of food production?
Farms in southern Italy are being effectively worked with "slave labour" with migrants from Africa with papers held by mafia rings and sleeping in substandard labour camps to bring tomatoes worth 30cents in Tesco.
Legitimate farmers are going out of business because of people's spending habits.

Insert whatever product name you want and go back along the line and someone is getting shafted.

Doesn't have to be a 30 cent tomato either can be your €1000 phone.

Look at the clothes you are wearing and device you tapped that message out on and I guarantee some human rights abuse took place at some stage of their manufacture.

Deebles McBeebles · 03-07-2019 2:43pm

ShlugEireann wrote: »

What do vegans think of nature where larger animals eat smaller ones?

Someone never got the vegan memo about it being ok to eat little people and children.

GreeBo · 03-07-2019 2:46pm

Some things are herbivores and some are carnivores.
Woop de doo.

Try explaining veganism to a polar bear as it eats your leg.

The natural world is far more barbaric with regards to eating meat, go give them your leaflets.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 03-07-2019 2:54pm

Let's all go rape each other, kill each other's kids, stick our tongues up each other's arses to say hello.

Anyone has a problem with it just tell them shut up animals do it in the wild and that's a perfectly fine not idiotic argument.

GreeBo · 03-07-2019 3:02pm

Janessa Uptight Asteroid wrote: »

Let's all go rape each other, kill each other's kids, stick our tongues up each other's arses to say hello.

Anyone has a problem with it just tell them shut up animals do it in the wild and that's a perfectly fine not idiotic argument.

Lets all only eat vegetables and tell anyone eating meat that they are a murderer.

Anyone has a problem with it just tell them to shut up and that its cruel to eat meat (even though none of us would be here if our ancestors didnt eat meat.)

Deebles McBeebles · 03-07-2019 3:03pm

GreeBo wrote: »

The natural world is far more barbaric with regards to eating meat, go give them your leaflets.

They can't read.

Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

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