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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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Comments

  • #32
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »
    39 hours.

    You'd think they work 168 hours with the way some of them go on.


  • #33
    wat24
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭wat24


    Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »
    39 hours.

    And one of the main problems is being short staffed means the shift should be 07.30-20.30 but it’s very hard to get out on time because you have to finish patient care and the mountains of documentation there is. If some gets sick at 20.30 you have to stay and help get them sorted because there isn’t enough night staff


  • #34
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    When are nurses not looking for a pay rise.


  • #35
    ethical
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭ethical


    The frontline staff,nurses on the wards ,are dwindling by the month.
    The money is wasted on so called "managers" who do sweet FA,and you know what, there are more and more of these wasters appearing in hospitals everyday and are eating up the HSE budget.Its time to sit down and take a long hard luck at the work load the frontline staff do and those that twiddle their thumbs in offices in the health service every day........AND GET PAID FOR IT!
    FCUK THE LOT OF THEM OUT,pay the frontline staff and see how quickly we get back to a system that actually cares and caters for the patients.So called "managers" couldnt manage a piss up in a brewery.:mad:


  • #36
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,037 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

    As I said in another post here the ignorance and lack of understanding by people on the outside who have never experienced working life inside a hospital.


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  • #37
    lilblackdress
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭lilblackdress


    The reason that complaints of conditions are being tied into a pay rise is we cannot keep nursing staff in Ireland due to crap pay. Nurses go off elsewhere to earn more and cannot be blamed for that... that means less nurses which in turn means worse conditions and poorer care which leads to even less nurses.

    In my opinion, people who think nurses don't deserve more either don't know how much they actually come out with a month for the work they put in or they have never had to sit and watch what a nurse actually has to do.... many people walk up to a nurses station and assume nurses are sitting doing nothing and unfortunately that is generally so far from the truth. The amount of documentation alone and lack of time to adequately fill it in is extremely difficult.

    Nurses are the only healthcare professional that is present 24/7. (13 hour shifts, 7 night shifts in a row, 1 free day worked a month etc). Yes doctors are on call in acute hospitals and care assistants who are amazing are being pulled away from patient care to do other tasks... nurses are the ones that tie the rest of the healthcare teams plans together to make their own plans. A typical day for a nurse 15 years ago was filled moreso with patient care than what it is now..... now it's scrimping for staff, trying to manage everyone in an effective and safe way and watching your nursing pin as best you can knowing that any day you walk in you could lose it due to lack of patient safety because of staff shortages and an increase in documentation.

    Morale is low, No matter what they do they can never do enough. Compassion fatigue is rife and nurses need a break and support from those they always strive to do their best for.... the public


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    A friend of mine earned more working in the canteen in one of the hospitals in Cork when she was training to be a Nurse, than in her first year as a qualified Nurse in the same hospital.

    That pushed her to move to Australia..


  • #39
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

    They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

    This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

    Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.


  • #40
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

    They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

    This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

    Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.

    As students, they subsidise the system by working their placements without pay.


  • #41
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Move the training from the classroom back on to the wards, changing nursing to a 4 year degree was a mistake. In 2004 70% of nurses were emigrating.



    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/nursing-a-revolution-from-tlc-to-a-degree-1.278006?mode=amp

    Since the mid-1990s, student nurses have followed a three-year diploma programme, linked to a college or university. They took social and biological science classes in college, but the rest of their time was spent on the wards. After they qualified, they could do a one-year, part-time course to get a degree. From next year, however, nursing will be a four-year degree programme. Admission will be through the Central Applications Office (CAO), as is the case with most other third-level courses....


    "Nurse training is being turned on its head," says Seamus Cowman, professor of nursing in the Faculty of Nursing and Midwifery at the RCSI. "For the first time, nurses will be graduates and will have graduate status," he says. "We'll be the envy of Europe. This is a huge investment in nursing."


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  • #42
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    I think if you compare nurses to other PS workers they are underpaid. They are paid less than primary teachers, physios, dietitians, OTs and I would guess their job is more demanding. There's also a massive shortage of nurses.

    It's a very difficult job. It's physically demanding and there is risk of mistakes which can have massive consequences. People don't respect nurses qualifications and intelligence at all.


  • #43
    Richmond Ultra
    Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭Richmond Ultra


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    They cannot work any harder as the are stretched to the limits everyday.Unfortunately there is a lot of ignorance and lack of understanding by people of how difficult it can be for nurses and other medical professionals working in our hospitals at present.A great example of that was shown by our Taoiseach recently when he made his stupid statement about Christmas being the peak time in Hospitals and therefore no staff should be allowed annual leave at that time.Its peak time at all times of year in our hospitals.

    I know of two nurses in CUH who did all the Twitter posting of #imworkingleo etc and long Facebook rants. Only for the man to arrive in on Christmas Day and they queued to get a selfie and didn't say a word. Surely if it upset them so much they would have mentioned it.

    Nurses will get a rise but if they do it will only open the floodgates.


  • #44
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Unions have ruined this country. They used to serve a very necessary purpose, but these days its just constant calling of strikes in order to get paid more and more.

    ??????????
    You should have been around in the 70s' and 80s'. Then you'd know about strikes!!
    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

    They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

    This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

    Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.

    What about all our students that go to England and Scotland to study nursing and then return here? ( A fairly large proportion of them..)



    The waste in the HSE is phenomenal. Quite apart from having too many non-medical staff or medical staff redeployed as Managers the waste on buildings, suppliers, agencies etc is phenomenal. A local one to me that recently popped up was the HSE Community Health Stores moving from Wilton, where they own the building, to Model Farm Road, where they're leasing a building. The original building is lying empty since. I'm sure everyone working within the HSE could point to a mulitude of examples. Cut all these and the Nurses could be comfortably paid more.

    Have a read of this report on an HSE Audit from the Irish Examiner last year. Eye opening. Highlights would be paying an agency €14,000 for an on call consultant - for one week , external storage costs for Galway rising from €7k to €800k from 2008 to 2016 and a recruitment company paid €20k+ in Kerry for the appointment of a consultant - who was already an employee !! Plenty more there to to explain where the money is going but this is still only the tip of the iceberg.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/special-report-hse-audit-the-14k-a-week-consultant-and-the-missing-financial-records-472877.html


  • #45
    mad muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    How much do you put on your life? Your family’s? Loved ones? You want the best healthcare and you want it now, but you don’t think you should pay too much for it?

    How much is too much? €30K? €60K? €100K? How much did the politicians pay rise pay themselves recently because they think they are doing such a good job?

    Was the pay restoration not promised to the nurses? Did they get it? Did the politicians get theirs?

    How much of the current crisis in the health care is the governments fault? How much of it is down to the austerity measures implemented 10 years ago? The pay freeze. The levies and charged? The recruitment ban? All the money spent on agency nurses?

    Do you want nurses to work 50? 60? Hours per week? Do you want to be treated by someone who’s worked that many hours in a high pressure situation when your life depends on it?

    Do you even know what’s it like being in nurse in a hospital in Ireland?

    If they do get their pay rise, they deserve every single cent of it.

    It’s a pity they have to go on strike for it. What was promised to them. And frankly what they deserve.


  • #46
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 12,009 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    Of course they will get it. The irony is that after getting it, if Leo calls an election in the Autumn they will be out again.

    The budget plus income for the health service is €22bn, that’s €5k for every man, woman and child in the country. If nurses, by far the largest cohort in the health service are undermanned and under paid as claimed by their mouthpiece, where the fcuk is the money being spent?

    Consultants. And admin staff.


  • #47
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    But surely they know the pay conditions before taking up nursing?

    They should be forced to work a set number of years in Ireland if they do courses subsidized by the tax payer.

    This idea of getting the degree here then moving to another country is bonkers.

    Is they pay for it themselves then they can do what they want.

    Nobody becomes a nurse for the money. They become nurses to help people.
    But when you're working 13 hour days in overcrowded wards, with screaming children, injured and dying adults and deraganged and demented elderly, forced to work by yourself because the ward is only half staffed, forced to lift people you can't physically lift and working back to back day and night shifts, when people are screaming at you because they are forced to queue, abusing you because a family member is forced onto a trolloy, physically and sexually assaulting you because they're off their face on drink and drugs, maybe the thoughts that the canteen workers are earning more than you and the conditions are only getting worse would make you consider emigrating for a better life.


    Near every single person will be in a hospital getting life saving care at some point in their life. When that time comes, you'll want your nurses to be rested and attentive and to be capable of giving the best of care.


  • #48
    trick
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭trick


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

    I’m laughing at this €55k per annum.
    I’m a pre 2010 graduate and my salary won’t go higher than €47k. Also, just to add I’m very happy with my salary. However, I know it’s not the same for nurses who have qualified since 2010.
    Please link your source re the €55k average!!

    With regard to working hours.
    The reality is that nurses are contracted to do specific hours but we end up doing more. I’m not complaining about that. It’s just the reality that the ordinary jo soap doesn’t understand.
    For example you are contracted for a shift 07:30-20:30. You need to be on the ward for report from night staff at 7am. Also, like another poster said, you can’t just walk off the ward at 20:30. I have often left work at 21:00-21:30. That’s just the way it is. You’ll never get those hours back though..


  • #49
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Nursing pay is an absolute disgrace.

    I am not a nurse, have a distant friend who is a nurse but that's about it.

    They get free 3rd level college granted, so does every other 3rd level student.

    They work placement throughout their course for no wage in their first 3 years and they have no say on where they get placed.

    They start off at 24k a year after 4 years of college.

    Nui hospital in Galway recently had a position advertised for the laundry room starting off at 26k a year. No education or experience required.

    Joke of system we have


  • #50
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Ipso wrote: »
    How much extra tax are you willing to pay for their rise?

    Bet he or she doesn't pay any tax.


  • #51
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    professore wrote: »
    Bet he or she doesn't pay any tax.

    I pay lots of tax, and this countries tax money is wasted in the billions every year.

    I'd be far happier to see if pay nurses wages that any of the "consultants" and working groups and
    think tanks the government employ.


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  • #52
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Guffy wrote: »
    Nursing pay is an absolute disgrace.

    I am not a nurse, have a distant friend who is a nurse but that's about it.

    They get free 3rd level college granted, so does every other 3rd level student.

    Why am I paying 3.5k in fees for my daughter then?
    They work placement throughout their course for no wage in their first 3 years and they have no say on where they get placed.

    That's part of their education.
    They start off at 24k a year after 4 years of college.

    That's not bad at all for a starting salary. Cue the comparisons with top end 1% Google programmers.
    Nui hospital in Galway recently had a position advertised for the laundry room starting off at 26k a year. No education or experience required.

    Joke of system we have

    The laundry room position will still be stuck down at that level several years hence.


  • #53
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    I pay lots of tax, and this countries tax money is wasted in the billions every year.

    I'd be far happier to see if pay nurses wages that any of the "consultants" and working groups and
    think tanks the government employ.

    I can't argue with you there. Where I can argue is that there are lots of nurses. And it won't stop there. The whole public sector will want parity. We already vastly overpay our public sector workers. We are still up to our eyeballs in debt. Brexit is around the corner. And the private sector workers will foot the bill as usual.


  • #54
    thomasdylan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 514 ✭✭✭thomasdylan


    professore wrote: »
    I can't argue with you there. Where I can argue is that there are lots of nurses. And it won't stop there. The whole public sector will want parity. We already vastly overpay our public sector workers. We are still up to our eyeballs in debt. Brexit is around the corner. And the private sector workers will foot the bill as usual.

    If nurses are overpaid why is there a shortage of them? Same for NCHDs and consultants? Why can't the jobs be filled if they are paid so well?


  • #55
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    professore wrote: »
    Why am I paying 3.5k in fees for my daughter then?

    That's part of their education.

    That's not bad at all for a starting salary. Cue the comparisons with top end 1% Google programmers.

    The laundry room position will still be stuck down at that level several years hence.
    They pay fees same as everyone.

    Most peoples placements are paid through a stipend. Student nurses are just used as free labour to plug the gaps in understaffed wards.

    Most starting salaries jump up by quite a bit after a year or two, nurses don't. Euro per hour, theyre usually below minimum wage for the first few years, given all the free hours they put in weekly.

    The laundry room employee didn't need to fork out 50k putting themselves through college and will have a better work environment than a newly qualified nurse.
    professore wrote: »
    I can't argue with you there. Where I can argue is that there are lots of nurses. And it won't stop there. The whole public sector will want parity. We already vastly overpay our public sector workers. We are still up to our eyeballs in debt. Brexit is around the corner. And the private sector workers will foot the bill as usual.

    I understand that position, but we're only in this situation because we have a weak government.

    It's ridiculous that when one sector strikes, so does the next. Bus driver, Luas and train drivers do it almost yearly.

    But when one sector is so underpaid to the point where they're losing staff, paying agency staff and standards are at rock bottom, something has to give. I find it ridiculous that anyone would go into nursing given the conditions, and I have no problem with anyone emigrating to better employment opportunities.


  • #56
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 12,009 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

    No . Wrong.

    Nursing Working week is 39.5 hours excluding the meal breaks( most nurses don't get time to take a meal break anyway). You must be thinking of your office job. And 1.5 of that is unpaid since the crash, was 38 hours.
    Also nurses while public servants, mostly do not work Monday to Friday or 9 to 5 , so only get to pay the rent by working nights and weekends.
    Average salary for a registered nurse is 31 k going up to 45 k after 13 years! Guards and teachers earn on average 8 to 10 k more. Nurses and teachers are both degree courses, guards are not.
    Most nurses have Higher Diplomas in specialist areas as well and even more have Masters in their speciality and teach others while doing their jobs.

    I don't know any parent who would encourage their children to go to uni when there are so many jobs out there not requiring half the effort, expertise or education paying so much more these days. But still people want to do it because they just love it and get a buzz out of the job itself and the great people they work . Hopefully someday maybe they might get the recognition and pay to encourage them to stay working in the health service . And therein lies the problem.


  • #57
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    mad muffin wrote: »
    How much do you put on your life? Your family’s? Loved ones? You want the best healthcare and you want it now, but you don’t think you should pay too much for it?

    The reality is we pay one of the highest costs per capita for quite frankly a poor health service. Seeing my mother in excruciating pain for 3 years waiting for a hip replacement was ample evidence of that. Now I'm not blaming nurses for that but a root and branch reform of the health service is needed. It's not a bottomless pit.


  • #58
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    They pay fees same as everyone.

    Most peoples placements are paid through a stipend. Student nurses are just used as free labour to plug the gaps in understaffed wards.

    Most starting salaries jump up by quite a bit after a year or two, nurses don't. Euro per hour, theyre usually below minimum wage for the first few years, given all the free hours they put in weekly.

    The laundry room employee didn't need to fork out 50k putting themselves through college and will have a better work environment than a newly qualified nurse.

    Not attacking nurses specifically but then they should become laundry room employees instead if it's so much better.


  • #59
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    professore wrote: »
    Not attacking nurses specifically but then they should become laundry room employees instead if it's so much better.

    That's why there's such a problem recruiting. People are choosing other professions for an easier and better life.
    Ireland is hiring more and more foreign staff to make up the shortfall.

    And remember that many other countries like the UK are in the same boat, and they pay better than us. So you wonder what the level is of foreign nurses working in Ireland when there are so many better opportunities out there.


  • #60
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    trick wrote: »
    ............

    Also, like another poster said, you can’t just walk off the ward at 20:30. I have often left work at 21:00-21:30...

    That's ok if it happens once in a blue moon

    If it's happening all the time and yer putting up with it , it's just martydom

    trick wrote: »
    ..........That’s just the way it is. You’ll never get those hours back though..

    Total up the hours and get them off a future days shift ( get a half-day or something )

    DON'T accept cash for the excess hours - they love fixing cr@p by just firing money at it



    Just stop work in plenty time and do your notes so you are out the door at 20:30



    Unless there is a bus crash or something, you stop in good time and do yer notes and gtf out the door


    It's abuse at the moment. Plain and simple.

    F*ck that, change it


    You will just kill someone by going on strike and it will fix absolutely nothing


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  • #61
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    gctest50 wrote: »
    That's ok if it happens once in a blue moon

    If it's happening all the time and yer putting up with it , it's just martydom
    Total up the hours and get them off a future days shift ( get a half-day or something )

    DON'T accept cash for the excess hours - they love fixing cr@p by just firing money at it

    Just stop work in plenty time and do your notes so you are out the door at 20:30

    Unless there is a bus crash or something, you stop in good time and do yer notes and gtf out the door

    It's abuse. Plain and simple.

    Working extra hours happens very regularly.
    You literally cannot just walk off the ward if you're needed. You can't get time in lieu or extra money for hours worked and good luck getting more cash for those hours.

    Your whole life revolves around the hospital. You can be called at a moment's notice to come in and usually you will, because if you don't your colleagues will have it much much worse.


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