Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Straight Pride

Options
245

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Wheety wrote: »
    This is something you'd only say if you didn't understand the significance of gay pride.

    Straight people have never had to hide their sexuality and in some cases, live their whole life as a lie. I have friends who are gay and they didn't admit it until they were in their late 20s.

    It's great, as a straight person, to not even have to 'come out'. It's just presumed people are straight when they're born.

    Yeah all that is true. But I'm still not going to tell someone they ought not express pride in their sexuality.


  • Options
    #33
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    then held a protest outside the 'Planned Parenthood' offices
    This tells me all I need to know about their organisation, tbh!


  • Options
    #34
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,485 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Wheety wrote: »
    Are you straight? Were you ever beaten up for being straight? Anyone ever shout 'Hetero' at you and spit at you?

    What tolerance are you missing out on?

    I think I was burned as a witch in a previous life. Does that count?


  • Options
    #35
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    But really stright pride is nothing to do with pride in heterosexuality at all. Its about hatred towards lgbt people.

    If they behave that way then I'd call then out on that and oppose it. But opposing the straight pride is missing the point.


  • Options
    #36
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,799 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    If they behave that way then I'd call then out on that and oppose it. But opposing the straight pride is missing the point.

    No its not. Straight Pride is more or less just a hatefest. It has nothing to do with pride in sexuality at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    No its not. Straight Pride is more or less just a hatefest.

    Why not just oppose the hate?

    If some gay people were asholes at a gay pride event, I wouldn't oppose gay pride. Id oppose the ashole behaviour.


  • Options
    #38
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    No its not. Straight Pride is more or less just a hatefest. It has nothing to do with pride in sexuality at all.

    Let's be honest, Straight Pride is a pure reaction to Gay Pride. It is a shield. It has nothing to do with being proud of anything, or to promote anything other than homophobia and intolerance.


  • Options
    #39
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Wheety wrote: »
    Are you straight? Were you ever beaten up for being straight? Anyone ever shout 'Hetero' at you and spit at you?

    What tolerance are you missing out on?

    Actually yes.... I was actually tortured going through school....


  • Options
    #40
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,799 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Why not just oppose the hate?

    If some gay people were asholes at a gay pride event, I wouldn't oppose gay pride. Id oppose the ashole behaviour.

    The whole event is merely a hatefest

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #41
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,799 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Actually yes.... I was actually tortured going through school....

    You were beaten and tortured vecause you were straight?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    The whole event is merely a hatefest

    I think that's going too far. If we can wave away the legitimacy of the entire event, then someone else can wave away the legitimacy of gay pride because the event is merely [insert reason].

    I'm more concerned with actual bad behaviour.


  • Options
    #43
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    I think that's going too far. If we can wave away the legitimacy of the entire event, then someone else can wave away the legitimacy of gay pride because the event is merely [insert reason].

    I'm more concerned with actual bad behaviour.

    Come on now. You can't be that naive. Gay pride is about acceptance and tolerance of gay people. Straight people have never had the same problems with being accepted for their sexuality.

    Straight Pride would be like a White Pride march. It's not about being proud of being straight, but is purely a reaction against gay pride.


  • Options
    #44
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Can someone please answer something for me? I don't want to start an argument, I have no interest in one.

    Why is it OK for someone to be "proud" to be gay yet not OK for someone to be "proud" to be straight?

    If I was to attend a straight pride parade (which I never would, I'm straight, big deal) I would be dragged over the coals for that decision yet if I was to slate a gay man attending a gay pride parade I would be called every name under the sun.


  • Options
    #45
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Can someone please answer something for me? I don't want to start an argument, I have no interest in one.

    Why is it OK for someone to be "proud" to be gay yet not OK for someone to be "proud" to be straight?

    If I was to attend a straight pride parade (which I never would, I'm straight, big deal) I would be dragged over the coals for that decision yet if I was to slate a gay man attending a gay pride parade I would be called every name under the sun.

    Are you proud to be straight?


  • Options
    #46
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 45,010 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Can someone please answer something for me? I don't want to start an argument, I have no interest in one.

    Why is it OK for someone to be "proud" to be gay yet not OK for someone to be "proud" to be straight?

    If I was to attend a straight pride parade (which I never would, I'm straight, big deal) I would be dragged over the coals for that decision yet if I was to slate a gay man attending a gay pride parade I would be called every name under the sun.

    Because being proud of being Gay is more so down to not being ashamed of it or not allowing society to tell you that you are wrong, disgusting etc - all the things society has said over time.

    Being straight has never been a target of abuse. Being White isn't a target of abuse. You've never had to hide being either. So there is no need to be vocal about being either, you aren't claiming back an identity from people who would try to murder you over it. You aren't claiming equality from people who would deny it of you. You are not fighting discrimination on the basis of who you are or who you love.

    'Straight Pride' marches aren't about celebrating a culture or similar, they are protests against others celebrating inclusion and equality. They are, at best, counter celebrations for people who feel others being recognised as people is marginalising them. Its weak, and pathetic.


  • Options
    #47
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Wheety wrote: »
    Come on now. You can't be that naive. Gay pride is about acceptance and tolerance of gay people. Straight people have never had the same problems with being accepted for their sexuality.

    Straight Pride would be like a White Pride march. It's not about being proud of being straight, but is purely a reaction against gay pride.

    Back up the truck. Who said you have to have problems being accepted to have pride in something? Are you seriously willing to tell a straight person they ought not have pride in their sexuality? That's precisely the wrong approach as far as I'm concerned.

    I wouldn't attend a straight pride event. But there's absolutely no way i would presume to stand In judgement of whether someone else ought to have pride in an important aspect of themselves or not. That's actually a very regressive attitude and i wouldn't encourage it or it would put gay pride back in the firing line because someone else thinks gay people ought not be proud of their sexuality.

    I don't make pride dependant on experiencing difficulties. Why do you do that?


  • Options
    #48
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Wheety wrote: »
    Are you proud to be straight?

    Personally it's not a major source of pride for me (not ashamed either, just neutral). Would you seriously tell a straight person they ought not have pride in their sexuality if they said it was a source of pride for them?

    Is your sexuality a source of pride for you?


  • Options
    #49
    Somedaythefire
    Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Somedaythefire


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Back up the truck. Who said you have to have problems being accepted to have pride in something? Are you seriously willing to tell a straight person they ought not have pride in their sexuality? That's precisely the wrong approach as far as I'm concerned.

    I wouldn't attend a straight pride event. But there's absolutely no way i would presume to stand In judgement of whether someone else ought to have pride in an important aspect of themselves or not. That's actually a very regressive attitude and i wouldn't encourage it or it would put gay pride back in the firing line because someone else thinks gay people ought not be proud of their sexuality.

    I don't make pride dependant on experiencing difficulties. Why do you do that?
    A lot of these "straight pride" events aren't about pride in being heterosexual. That's just a cover to make it seem better.

    According to its website, the coalition is protecting traditional gender roles, Christianity, heterosexuality, Western Civilization, babies, and the contributions of whites to Western Civilization from the malevolence of the homosexual movement...

    ...Grundmann has equated the LGBTQ+ community with promoting child molestation


    These guys have no pride in being heterosexual. They have issues with LGBT+ people and that's what the "straight pride" event was about, not pride in being straight.


  • Options
    #50
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Wheety wrote: »
    Are you proud to be straight?

    No, why would I be? It's not something I have control over. I am proud of things I have achieved in life, I am proud of my kids and how they are turning out. My sexuality though? No.

    I assume you're gay, are you proud to be gay? If so, why?


  • Options
    #51
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    Because being proud of being Gay is more so down to not being ashamed of it or not allowing society to tell you that you are wrong, disgusting etc - all the things society has said over time.

    Being straight has never been a target of abuse. Being White isn't a target of abuse. You've never had to hide being either. So there is no need to be vocal about being either, you aren't claiming back an identity from people who would try to murder you over it. You aren't claiming equality from people who would deny it of you. You are not fighting discrimination on the basis of who you are or who you love.

    Shame, wrong and disgusting are all things that were applied to straight people by the religious in Ireland. If you didn't conform to their ideals you could be punished socially.

    Im actually pretty disappointed to see people pretend that the only forms of punishment that matters is those against gay people. Having sex or a child out side marriage came with great social punishment. The term 'scarlet woman' or just slut.

    I'll continue to support gay pride whether a gay person supports me having pride in my sexuality or not. (Not suggesting gay people need my support specifically). But I'm actually pretty disappointed that someone else would dismiss the notion of pride in my sexuality because it didn't experience the exact same discrimination homosexuality experienced.

    I don't have to argue that the discrimination is the same (and I don't) and I don't even argue that pride is dependant on discrimination. If someone is proud of something and they do no harm on account of it, then go for it and enjoy yourselves, right?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    RocketRaccoon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,394 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    Because being proud of being Gay is more so down to not being ashamed of it or not allowing society to tell you that you are wrong, disgusting etc - all the things society has said over time.

    Being straight has never been a target of abuse. Being White isn't a target of abuse. You've never had to hide being either. So there is no need to be vocal about being either, you aren't claiming back an identity from people who would try to murder you over it. You aren't claiming equality from people who would deny it of you. You are not fighting discrimination on the basis of who you are or who you love.

    'Straight Pride' marches aren't about celebrating a culture or similar, they are protests against others celebrating inclusion and equality. They are, at best, counter celebrations for people who feel others being recognised as people is marginalising them. Its weak, and pathetic.

    Just one point, these people arranged a straight pride parade, they have been abused by gay people for doing so. So isn't it the exact same?

    Straight people protesting gay pride - bad
    Gay people protesting straight pride - good


  • Options
    #53
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Somedaythefire wrote: »
    A lot of these "straight pride" events aren't about pride in being heterosexual. That's just a cover to make it seem better.





    These guys have no pride in being heterosexual. They have issues with LGBT+ people and that's what the "straight pride" event was about, not pride in being straight.

    So if they aren't about straight pride then why would you bother dismissing straight pride. You're going after something you claim they don't even believe.

    If they behave like homophobes then go after them for that behaviour.

    But that still doesn't address why some people are claim pride is dependent on having experienced discrimination. I don't see discrimination as the only path to pride.


  • Options
    #54
    Somedaythefire
    Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Somedaythefire


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Just one point, these people arranged a straight pride parade, they have been abused by gay people for doing so. So isn't it the exact same?

    Straight people protesting gay pride - bad
    Gay people protesting straight pride - good
    This event wasn't about pride in their sexuality. That's just a cover so this argument happens. If you take a quick look into who organised it you'll be able to see that.


  • Options
    #55
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Straight pride attendees were outnumbered 5-1 by counter protestors.

    Counter-protesters? You mean protesters - and bordering on a mob by the sounds of it.


  • Options
    #56
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Back up the truck. Who said you have to have problems being accepted to have pride in something? Are you seriously willing to tell a straight person they ought not have pride in their sexuality? That's precisely the wrong approach as far as I'm concerned.

    I wouldn't attend a straight pride event. But there's absolutely no way i would presume to stand In judgement of whether someone else ought to have pride in an important aspect of themselves or not. That's actually a very regressive attitude and i wouldn't encourage it or it would put gay pride back in the firing line because someone else thinks gay people ought not be proud of their sexuality.

    I don't make pride dependant on experiencing difficulties. Why do you do that?
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Personally it's not a major source of pride for me (not ashamed either, just neutral). Would you seriously tell a straight person they ought not have pride in their sexuality if they said it was a source of pride for them?

    Is your sexuality a source of pride for you?

    See, what you're doing is focusing too much on the actual name of the events. Read up on the history of Gay Pride and you'll see it's significance. It's not literally about being proud of being gay. It was started because of the persecution gay people have suffered. Arrested, jailed, beaten, killed, fired, abused in the street, disowned by family and a lot more.

    Sure even in this country, it's only very recently where gay people were allowed to marry. It's 2019 and in some countries it's still illegal to be gay. With severe punishment too.

    Straight Pride is not needed. We haven't suffered from any of the above. We don't need to march to be accepted.

    If someone told me they were proud to be straight, it would just come across as they're proud not to be gay.

    I'm not going to continue this conversation with you, as you have made your opinion clear and I don't think I'll change your mind.


  • Options
    #57
    Somedaythefire
    Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Somedaythefire


    antix80 wrote: »
    Counter-protesters? You mean protesters - and bordering on a mob by the sounds of it.

    Yes they were counter protesters. The “straight pride “ protested a planned parenthood building. Read the article.


  • Options
    #58
    Somedaythefire
    Registered Users Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Somedaythefire


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    So if they aren't about straight pride then why would you bother dismissing straight pride. You're going after something you claim they don't even believe.

    If they behave like homophobes then go after them for that behaviour.

    But that still doesn't address why some people are claim pride is dependent on having experienced discrimination. I don't see discrimination as the only path to pride.
    An inclusive straight pride that isn’t born from disdain of LGBT people would be fine. A bit pointless compared to the history of gay pride but harmless nonetheless.

    This was not that.


  • Options
    #59
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,943 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Wheety wrote: »
    See, what you're doing is focusing too much on the actual name of the events. Read up on the history of Gay Pride and you'll see it's significance. It's not literally about being proud of being gay. It was started because of the persecution gay people have suffered. Arrested, jailed, beaten, killed, fired, abused in the street, disowned by family and a lot more.

    Sure even in this country, it's only very recently where gay people were allowed to marry. It's 2019 and in some countries it's still illegal to be gay. With severe punishment too.

    Straight Pride is not needed. We haven't suffered from any of the above. We don't need to march to be accepted.

    If someone told me they were proud to be straight, it would just come across as they're proud not to be gay.

    I'm not going to continue this conversation with you, as you have made your opinion clear and I don't think I'll change your mind.

    I don't deny that all that happened to gay people and it was all wrong. But i don't agree that gay pride is the only kind of pride that matters or that the only legitimate route to pride is thought the discrimination that gay people experiences.

    The suffering gay people experienced was real and significant and was wrong. But it's not the sole legitimate route to pride. That's nonsense.


  • Options
    #60
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    No, why would I be? It's not something I have control over. I am proud of things I have achieved in life, I am proud of my kids and how they are turning out. My sexuality though? No.

    I assume you're gay, are you proud to be gay? If so, why?

    I'm not gay.

    You're misrepresenting what gay pride is about. It's not a march purely to display how proud one is with being gay. It's the style of argument Gemma O'Doherty and her ilk would use. Focus on one small part and keep hammering that point.

    It's about being accepted by society. Watch the video Dublin Bus made for pride this year to see what it's really about.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    zig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,206 ✭✭✭zig


    RocketRaccoon wrote: »
    Just one point, these people arranged a straight pride parade, they have been abused by gay people for doing so. So isn't it the exact same?

    Straight people protesting gay pride - bad
    Gay people protesting straight pride - good

    The whole premise of a pride parade is that gay people were told they in various forms and extremities that they should be anything but proud of being gay.

    Straight people never had that same experience so a straight pride parade in 2019 is generally pointless unless it has a homophobic undertone and is rarely anything to do with them being genuinely proud of being straight. So yea gay pride = good, straight pride = bad


Advertisement