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What causes (some) humans' natural tendency to violently reject differing worldviews?

  • 07-08-2017 12:09am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭


    I was thinking about the history of religious conflict in the world. Obviously as we all know, "religious war" has often tended to simply be a cover for something else - war over land, resources, wealth etc which those pulling the strings simply use "religion" as a means of whipping up support among ordinary people who either don't understand or are not aware of the more complex reasons for conflict. However, this doesn't change the fact that it has been an effective tool of war mongering over the millennia.

    Obviously, on some level, there's a natural progression from simple disagreement to violent disagreement, even when, as with religion, the difference of opinion doesn't actually have any tangible effects on either party. To differentiate, an example of a conflict which does have a tangible effect would be a property dispute:

    Person A: My pint!
    Person B: No, my pint!
    --There's only one pint, so this has to be resolved one way or another, therefore:
    *scrap ensues to claim ownership of the pint*

    In the above example, pint can be replaced with pretty much anything, and either "person" can be replaced if necessary with "group of people" - land, oil, water, sex, anything can be fought over for the simple reason that two humans claim it and most mammals will physically engage when territory or ownership of something is called into question between them. And is must get resolved - agreeing to disagree doesn't just mean agreeing to disagree, it also means that one of the parties must give up something they feel entitled to. In my example, one party has to walk away with the pint. If neither of them currently has it, then agreeing to disagree makes no sense because the first one who reaches for it has deprived the second person of something they are "agreeing to disagree" actually belongs to that person, so a confrontation is still inevitable.

    What I don't understand is that religion has no such tangible requirement for a definitive outcome, except apparently some sort of psychological one that has no real-world effects. If I say "The universe was created, and is currently controlled, by the Flying Spaghetti Monster" and some other human says "No, the universe was created, and is currently controlled, by the Swimming Garlic Demon", because we're not fighting over a tangible item such as land, property etc that only one of us can possess... What's the advantage or sense in fighting over it?

    In this scenario:

    Person A: The universe is ruled by the Flying Spaghetti Monster
    Person B: The universe is ruled by the Swimming Garlic Demon
    [Unknown third step]
    *Fight ensues*

    The unknown third step is what I don't understand. In example number one, the third step is that it becomes established there is only one pint, and therefore in order for one of us to have it, we must resolve that. It cannot remain unresolved - there has to be a winner, one way or another. But in the latter example, when we're dealing entirely with abstract ideas and not with anything directly tangible, there's no actual reason why we can't just call eachother tosspots for obviously having a totally incorrect perception of the world - and then carry on doing our own thing.

    What makes it worthwhile / desirable to basically try to force somebody else into proclaiming that you're version is correct, by essentially using physical coercion and violence to beat them into submission? What are you losing, on a primal or instinctive level, by simple walking away and saying "well, that idiot is wrong, but I know I'm right and that's all that really matter anyway" - my own existence, quality of life, or tangible experience of life is in no way affected by the mere existence of people who believe something different to me, so from that point of view I don't understand the desire, which repeatedly appears throughout human history and is thus not merely an unusual outlier, to physically eradicate the existence or presence of individuals with a different world view.

    Tl;dr, why, psychologically speaking, is the natural human instinct in many cases to confront and destroy sources of intangible and abstract dissent rather than simply ignoring them? What psychologically justifies the potentially massive stakes - one's own death, for instance, if the conflict doesn't go their way - in starting a fight about something which in no way directly impacts one's own experience of life?

    It's something I've really always struggled to understand. Humans are generally programmed to avoid conflict unless there's some genuine benefit to victory in one, but what evolutionary or instinctive benefit is there in being able to say "I'm right and he's dead"? You don't actually gain anything from it at all, and you've expended considerable energy fighting an unnecessary fight.

    Is this something that is known / understood at all?


Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,659 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    I’ve read a number of history books as they pertain to war and the causes of such (the writer Van Crevald is a recommend read). So narrative that Religion causes most wars is a well worn cliche at this stage, and the OP correctly states that it there are only some conflicts have such as originate factor. Saying that, the question as it is posed and embracing the current norms of political ideology as a secular equivalent to religious ideology, has a good deal of merit. So I would say it should be looked at in two ways, the origins and the conceptual lens.

    In the former, AFAIR, early experts in early human kind (such as Nicolas Wade in his book African Dawn(?)) point out the paradoxes involved in survival. The need to bind together a small group of people to gather resources and the willingness to fight together against others to defend that. The purpose of a common bound that embraces the “us” against the “:other” can be found by emphasising the common history, blood and religion/beliefs that are part of the social fabric of the group. This is thus inherent in our DNA to reduce the inhibations to violence but still maintain some checks so it is not Hobbesian in nature..

    In the latter, one would need to look through the lens of the main theorist of War and Violence, von Clausewitz. His theories from his main book “On War” have had various phases of acceptance over the past two centuries, but currently stand as the prevailing theoretical framework. To capture its essence, war is a political act to force an opponent to do one’s will. In Europe during Clausewitz’s own life time, this had been shown not only to relate to resources but the very nature of what constituted the correct ideology for ruling. e.g. the ideas of the French revolution vs that of the conservative Monarchies.

    Thus the politiical nature of war, which differs from battles over resources, has the early hominid mindset imposed on what the author Jonathan Haidt has interpreted as differing views of the world - which can vary amongst culture - but seem have an effect of enforcing in-group cohesion against the perceived other - be in the next village or the next contingent due to their other way of perceiving the world. So to answer the OP, the gain of War is the creation of a community bound in common against the “other”.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Joe1919



    Tl;dr, why, psychologically speaking, is the natural human instinct in many cases to confront and destroy sources of intangible and abstract dissent rather than simply ignoring them? What psychologically justifies the potentially massive stakes - one's own death, for instance, if the conflict doesn't go their way - in starting a fight about something which in no way directly impacts one's own experience of life?

    It's something I've really always struggled to understand. Humans are generally programmed to avoid conflict unless there's some genuine benefit to victory in one, but what evolutionary or instinctive benefit is there in being able to say "I'm right and he's dead"? You don't actually gain anything from it at all, and you've expended considerable energy fighting an unnecessary fight.

    Is this something that is known / understood at all?

    Attempts have been made to explain the above in terms of our 'pride' system and our 'self-righteousness', or our 'fight to the death for recognition', which can take place at both individual and at a collective level.

    You could also possibly (crudely) say that there is a 'survival of the fittest' or competition in terms of 'ideas' (or memes?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Serengeti


    I wonder how many conflicts throughout history have their roots in religion alone. As the OP points out it is well known that religion is often used as a cover for many violent conflicts. I am trying to think of one example where it is clear that combatants in a regional or international context came to blows only because they differed in religious views, but must admit I am struggling to come up with one. There are of course countless examples where religion may have been a contributing factor, but I am looking for an example where it was the sole or even major factor.

    The early missionaries to the Americas often engaged in the most brutal and violent methods in their efforts to convert the natives to Christianity. Some might point to this as an example of conflict and violence based solely on religious differences. However, in this case those missionaries were convinced, how ever misguided, that what they were doing was for the eternal good of the native peoples. Consequently, I do not think this is an example of the type of conflict the original poster had in mind.

    Violent conflict arising from religious differences of opinion is often more likely where just two individuals are involved. On many such occasions, an explanation can be found in over indulgence in alcohol or the abuse of drugs But this explanation by no means accounts for all cases. Perhaps at the individual level there is a sort of feeling that ''if I can't convince this person that I am right on this subject, maybe I am not strong enough to convince others that I have a right more tangible things like my home or my family''
    Is it a reinforcement of an individuals belief in their own ability to get the material things they need to survive, to improve their circumstances or to be happy ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Low emotional intelligence


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