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Sweden avoiding lockdown

  • 11-04-2020 12:36pm
    #1
    frillyleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭


    Does Sweden have the right approach to this and how is their healthcare system being able to manage Covid19 cases?

    What are the differences between Sweden and Ireland and why can’t we continue similar to how Sweden is managing Covid19?

    I’m not suggesting either is right or wrong. I would just like to know how Sweden can continue as normal and other countries can’t. Thanks 😊


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Comments

  • #2
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,433 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Is Sweden's healthcare system handling it ok? I'm not sure it is given the number of deaths so far.

    Which is officially 870 off just 9,000 + cases.


  • #3
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    Any country can continue as normal if they are willing to accept that many people will die.

    Sweden seem to be ok with a higher death than other countries.


  • #4
    completedit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Look at the end of day we are all going to go the way of Sweden? It made sense at the start when this was new to adopt a back to the wall approach and be like "Human lives matter more than the economy" and they do, but the problem is our whole system is rigged to be in such a way that human lives are so interdependent on this economy for our livelihoods and wellbeing


  • #5
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    They have twice our population but almost four times as many deaths as us so far.

    Better health system to start with too.

    I know some on here think the economy is more important than keeping the death rate down but to me it’s not one or the other.

    If we get to the stage of hundreds of deaths a day, overrun ICUs and younger people dying in greater numbers due to lack of beds/ treatment, who’s going to want to be out and about anyway?


  • #6
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    its a choice


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  • #7
    otnomart
    Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭otnomart


    I had already posted this in the main tread:


    Sweden are prioritising patients, those over 80 years of age don't go to ICU
    source: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/s...n-intensivvard


  • #8
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    otnomart wrote: »
    I had already posted this in the main tread:


    Sweden are prioritising patients, those over 80 years of age don't go to ICU
    source: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/s...n-intensivvard

    Is that really so different to here?

    The vast majority of deaths are outside the icu environment.


  • #9
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Is that really so different to here?

    The vast majority of deaths are outside the icu environment.

    Age is not the sole criteria in Ireland for getting into ICU. Ireland has not taken this approach, yet.


  • #10
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    otnomart wrote: »
    Sweden are prioritising patients, those over 80 years of age don't go to ICU

    Same as here then.

    We’re just letting them die quietly in nursing homes where the death can be kept out of the official figures.


  • #11
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    The Bishop Basher wrote: »
    Same as here then.

    We’re just letting them die quietly in nursing homes where the death can be kept out of the official figures.

    Aren’t we one of the few countries including deaths outside hospital in the figures?


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  • #12
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    We are just delaying the inevitable here, we will all end up going this way. People really need to get their heads out of the sand.


  • #13
    JJJJNR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭JJJJNR


    Difference is Sweden hasn't been paying a bailout to bondholders for the past 12 years so has a robust health service. Also nordic countries have been stockpiling everything needed since ww2.


  • #14
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Certainly an interesting topic.
    Is Sweden's stance coming from the same people in power who allowed massive non-EU immigration into their country in the last few years?
    Do they believe that their older population is dispensable, I wonder.
    Is there a new philosophical approach in Sweden that dictates these policies and decisions?

    It is certainly surreal watching reports from Sweden where life appears to be going on as normal in the foreground. In the background, what is the reality?
    As I said, an interesting topic.
    And a good use-case for the rest of the world to use for Covid baselines etc.


  • #15
    sterz
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭sterz


    niallo27 wrote: »
    We are just delaying the inevitable here, we will all end up going this way. People really need to get their heads out of the sand.

    You first.


  • #16
    MizMix
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭MizMix


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Aren’t we one of the few countries including deaths outside hospital in the figures?

    Yes our deaths in nursing homes have been included in our figures from the beginning unlike a lot of countries


  • #17
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Aren’t we one of the few countries including deaths outside hospital in the figures?

    We’re including some but many are dying while waiting on tests or waiting on results of tests. Many others aren’t being tested at all so there’s no way of knowing.


  • #18
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭whippet


    I have family living in rural Sweden and they are disgusted with the Swedish approach ... the Swedish mentality is that they are smart enough to be able to function as normal and not spread the infection !

    It stems from the swede’s culture of generally being very antisocial at the best of times and a condescending view of other cultures.

    While my relatives can self isolate and minimise the number of times they have to shop for essentials they still have to send the kids to school.

    There is a growing number of People in Sweden who don’t agree with the government’s approach.


  • #19
    ldy4mxonucwsq6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    metricspaces wrote: »
    Age is not the sole criteria in Ireland for getting into ICU. Ireland has not taken this approach, yet.

    Actually this is the exact approach being taken here, you do realise if you catch coronavirus as a resident in a nursing home that you're not going to be taken to hospital?

    Most of our deaths have been in nursing homes and not in ICU because nursing home residents are not being admitted to hospital. They are receiving care on site in the nursing home.

    Terribly sad state of affairs but that's what's been happening for the last few weeks.


  • #20
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    niallo27 wrote: »
    We are just delaying the inevitable here, we will all end up going this way. People really need to get their heads out of the sand.

    The whole point of these restrictions is to delay the inevitable. You say that like it’s a flaw in the plan as opposed to the whole point of it.


  • #21
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,120 ✭✭✭plodder


    Sweden could be doing the rest of us a favour because vaccines will have to be tested in a place where the virus is circulating widely

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0411/1129975-vaccine-coronavirus/


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  • #22
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    I was speaking to an undertaker who’s been in and out of nursing homes and in his words it’s an “absolute ****show”.

    When we go back and review how we’ve handled this crisis, nursing homes will be a large stain on our collective conscience.

    The fact that Simon Harris couldn’t be arsed responding to Tadhg Daly‘s calls for over 3 weeks, yet he still found the time to tweet about the Easter Bunny kinda spells out where his priorities lie.


  • #23
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Without knowing in detail exactly what is going on in Sweden it is still clear that they are severely under testing.

    Their total tests have barely moved from yesterday which were just above 54,000. Ireland is testing at twice the rate. Neither are they counting the deaths in the community.

    There is no way to know how many people are dying as a result because they are not testing in the community. If they had extensively tested and their mortality rate was still low then I think an argument could be made about whether their model is worth considering.

    But a model based on hiding the true mortality rate is not one that anyone should be looking to aspire to.


  • #24
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 15,995 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    KiKi III wrote: »
    The whole point of these restrictions is to delay the inevitable. You say that like it’s a flaw in the plan as opposed to the whole point of it.

    Sweden could possibly end up better by just taking the hit now though.


  • #25
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    niallo27 wrote: »


    Sweden could possibly end up better by just taking the hit now though.

    Or they could possibly end up a whole lot worse.


  • #26
    JoChervil
    Registered Users Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    Sweden has a lot of restrictions and they are also lying.

    This is from a week old article (google lame translation):

    "The number of infected and dead is much higher than reported by the Swedish authorities," says "Verdens Gang." "For example, on March 25, the Swedish Ministry of Health reported that it had 42 deaths due to coronavirus that day, and later it appeared that the actual number of deaths was 97. The next day it was reported that 66 coronavirus-infected people died in Sweden, while in reality is was 124. Swedish Chief Epidemiologist Anders Tegnell makes no secret that the numbers presented are too low, "we read.
    ...

    "The number of deaths from coronavirus in Sweden may not be 373, according to the Swedes, but even 750" - wrote "Verdens Gang" on Sunday. According to official figures from Tuesday's noon in Sweden with 10 million inhabitants, 7 206 infections and 477 deaths were recorded. In addition, twice as few tests were done there than in Norway (54,700), and yet Sweden has twice as many citizens."


  • #27
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    For authorities in places like Sweden and the United Kingdom their failure to act has been nothing short of criminal and the only recourse open to them is to now cover-up the extent of the damage by not testing, by leaving people to die in the community and by not counting them in the official statistics.

    It is heartbreaking to see this happening in so-called modern Western democracies.


  • #28
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users Posts: 5,151 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Any country can continue as normal if they are willing to accept that many people will die.

    Sweden seem to be ok with a higher death than other countries.

    probably end up with similar amount of deaths just over a shorter time frame


  • #29
    Pinkpotato
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Pinkpotato


    I personally don't care what other countries are doing, I'm just doing what my country tells me.
    I mean we wouldn't say Oh Look, America is sending the army into (any middle east country) and Britain is helping. We should send ours with them!
    If another country brought in gassing its own people as standard practice, we wouldn't just copy.
    Sweden want to kill off their population, leave them to it.


  • #30
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,164 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    MizMix wrote: »
    Yes our deaths in nursing homes have been included in our figures from the beginning unlike a lot of countries

    I suspect that in many other countries those in nursing homes testing positive would have been moved to hospital

    We are only including those who have tested positive. Holohan made that very clear yesterday

    The UK now has a separate total including those who have not tested positive but where it's included as a factor on a death certificate. It takes longer for these figures to come through though


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  • #31
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Beasty wrote: »
    I suspect that in many other countries those in nursing homes testing positive would have been moved to hospital

    We are only including those who have tested positive. Holohan made that very clear yesterday

    The UK now has a separate total including those who have not tested positive but where it's included as a factor on a death certificate. It takes longer for these figures to come through though

    That total is not realiable either. ONS listed only 20 extra deaths. At the same time a care home executive is quoted as estimating around 1000 in their private network.

    The Conservative government were caught off guard by the ONS at the outset but have likely corralled it since so it doesn't make a mockery of their numbers.


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