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Rio marathon champ tests postive for EPO

24

Comments

  • #32
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    I agree, and I don't! Lance Armstrong wouldn't have been exposed if it wasn't for David Walshe and Paul Kimmage. It had nothing to do with drug testing. He never failed a test...nor did Carl Lewis :rolleyes: It wasn't a Spanish club that was at the centre of the scandal it was an Italian Old Lady. I suppose the reason that cycling, athletics and swimming have bigger problems is that so much of ones ability is based on physical prowess. You need other skills for tennis, rugby, football etc but runners and cyclists need speed and endurance which can be improved by drugs.

    There’s no skill in descending down a mountain in the alps around hairpin bends? There’s no skill in driving out of starting blocks? There’s no skill regarding technique for hurdles, jumps, throws?

    Cycling and athletics have more problems because they test more. It’s as simple as that. Don’t be fooled into thinking otherwise.


  • #33
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    I watch a lot of tennis. Doping is never discussed.

    That's the hypocrisy. I watch cycling all year long on Eurosport. Carlton Kirby keeps referring to cyclists drugs bans as "unfortunate absences" or "troubles". Steve Cram is the same with athletics and I presume tennis commentators skirt the issue too.


  • #34
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,550 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    I watch a lot of tennis. Doping is never discussed.

    Sharapova was given prime time when she came back for US Open. Tennis doesn't want to lose its stars.

    Doping?  No hablo español.


  • #35
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    We’ll leave it there...answers questions with questions goes nowhere.

    I just wonder why you picked Murray and not both my examples.

    Reason I mentioned Murray is because I was watching him on eurosport and his winnings popped up.


  • #36
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Back to the athlete in question. What was her background and record coming into the games, any association with suspect coaches or camps? Were eyebrows raised when she won London and her other marathons?


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  • #37
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Sharapova was given prime time when she came back for US Open. Tennis doesn't want to lose its stars.

    Doping?  No hablo español.

    She got that in the US but not in UK or French slams. Tennis is fading quickly in the USA


  • #38
    S.L.F.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭S.L.F.


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    I watch a lot of tennis. Doping is never discussed.

    Oh I didnt know it was limited to t.v. coverage.

    Its discussed a lot on the fan forums and FB pages especially when the fan favourite doesnt win.


  • #39
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    That's the hypocrisy. I watch cycling all year long on Eurosport. Carlton Kirby keeps referring to cyclists drugs bans as "unfortunate absences" or "troubles". Steve Cram is the same with athletics and I presume tennis commentators skirt the issue too.

    Cram talks about doping a lot. Sure he was the one who created the good v evil nonsense during Beijing World Championships.


  • #40
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    walshb wrote: »
    Thanks for clearing that up...

    Well Dr Fuentes was a certain injury prone tennis players doctor but i'm sure there's a perfectly innocent explanation.


  • #41
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    There’s no skill in descending down a mountain in the alps around hairpin bends? There’s no skill in driving out of starting blocks? There’s no skill regarding technique for hurdles, jumps, throws?

    Cycling and athletics have more problems because they test more. It’s as simple as that. Don’t be fooled into thinking otherwise.

    Skills relative to other sports. All sports require skills but for some there is more to be gained by physical improvement than skill improvement. Usain Bolt could never get out of the blocks but it never hindered him. The English sports system transferred rowers to cycling and vice versa based on physiological profiles. This could not be done with skill dominated based sports. Some might call these other sports games!


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  • #42
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,550 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    average_runner wrote: »
    She got that in the US but not in UK or French slams. Tennis is fading quickly in the USA

    The US Open was her first back after the ban...

    Point being that they'll protect the marquee players but it's not like they have a strict testing programme anyway


  • #43
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    RuMan wrote: »
    Well Dr Fuentes was a certain injury prone tennis players doctor but i'm sure there's a perfectly innocent explanation.

    What does that say about the players that beat that certain player?


  • #44
    S.L.F.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭S.L.F.


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    Sharapova was given prime time when she came back for US Open. Tennis doesn't want to lose its stars.

    Doping? No hablo español.

    Tennis can't afford to lose it stars, its one of the reasons for the silent bans. They dont want to tarnish the gentlemans game.


  • #45
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Back to the athlete in question. What was her background and record coming into the games, any association with suspect coaches or camps? Were eyebrows raised when she won London and her other marathons?

    https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/kenya/jemima-jelagat-sumgong-224362

    Jumped from 2:28 to 2:20 in 2013.


  • #46
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    The US Open was her first back after the ban...

    Eh no it wasn't.

    http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/05/maria-sharapova-not-given-wild-card-entry-for-french-open/66074/


  • #47
    clickerquicklic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭clickerquicklic


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    There’s no skill in descending down a mountain in the alps around hairpin bends? There’s no skill in driving out of starting blocks? There’s no skill regarding technique for hurdles, jumps, throws?

    Cycling and athletics have more problems because they test more. It’s as simple as that. Don’t be fooled into thinking otherwise.

    I don't think there is any more drugs in athletics than any other top sports , I agree with you there. With athletics and cycling though they are mostly timed events so its easier to see the improvements that are been made either versus the world record or versus their own previous performances.

    If you had a whole football team working with a doctor (which I'm sure happens) its harder to measure the improvements in numerical terms.

    I think this is why athletics gets such a bad rap compared to other sports when it comes to doping and speculation about doping. Maybe people are too quick to jump to conclusions when they see someone who ran X time 6 months ago and now runs X-n . Whereas if Messi scores 5 goals in a game hes just a genius.


  • #48
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Cram talks about doping a lot. Sure he was the one who created the good v evil nonsense during Beijing World Championships.

    Oh he does alright...except when the athlete in question is British


  • #49
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    clickerquicklic wrote: »

    If you had a whole football team working with a doctor (which I'm sure happens) its harder to measure the improvements in numerical terms.

    Their superior stamina and recovery as a match progresses would be apparent.


  • #50
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Skills relative to other sports. All sports require skills but for some there is more to be gained by physical improvement than skill improvement. Usain Bolt could never get out of the blocks but it never hindered him. The English sports system transferred rowers to cycling and vice versa based on physiological profiles. This could not be done with skill dominated based sports. Some might call these other sports games!

    It’s a myth that Bolt was a poor starter. He was actually a very good starter. He wouldn’t be first out, but he’d have a habit of perfecting his start in time for the final and would get out well.

    Doesn’t matter how skillful a footballer is if he is bolloxed with 15 minutes to go. Enter EPO.


  • #51
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    It’s a myth that Bolt was a poor starter. He was actually a very good starter. He wouldn’t be first out, but he’d have a habit of perfecting his start in time for the final and would get out well.

    Doesn’t matter how skillful a footballer is if he is bolloxed with 15 minutes to go. Enter EPO.

    Ok I'm confused. Are we agreeing drugs are in every real sport?


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  • #52
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,550 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    average_runner wrote: »
    Eh no it wasn't.

    http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2017/05/maria-sharapova-not-given-wild-card-entry-for-french-open/66074/

    That link said she didn't play...

    But I take your point.

    That being said, some within the game will take a stance against doping, some won't.

    But I don't think the testing in tennis is particularly strict or thorough. Nor other sports either.

    I think cycling and athletics take all the flak because people get caught but I think that's largely because other sports don't test as stringently.


  • #53
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Oh he does alright...except when the athlete in question is British

    I could be wrong but I thought he was very critical of Chambers.

    He can’t accuse people who haven’t been caught on air. He’ll be sued for that. I’m sure he has his own private suspicions.


  • #54
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Their superior stamina and recovery as a match progresses would be apparent.

    Cough cough 2012 European cup final. International


  • #55
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Ok I'm confused. Are we agreeing drugs are in every real sport?

    I’m basically disproving the nonsense that doping helps somebody in one sport more than another. Physical fitness is huge in every sport, and so doping plays a big role across the board in terms of various sports.


  • #56
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Their superior stamina and recovery as a match progresses would be apparent.

    Also recovery between matches if u were going for La Liga , CL and domestic cup.


  • #57
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    That link said she didn't play...

    But I take your point.

    That being said, some within the game will take a stance against doping, some won't.

    But I don't think the testing in tennis is particularly strict or thorough. Nor other sports either.

    I think cycling and athletics take all the flak because people get caught but I think that's largely because other sports don't test as stringently.


    She was denied entry before injury and no wildcard for Wimbledon but she got injured in Birmingham I think.

    Who test the tennis players in the Olympics?


  • #58
    clickerquicklic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭clickerquicklic


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Ok I'm confused. Are we agreeing drugs are in every real sport?

    :D I was thinking the same myself everyone seems to be in violent agreement yet there seems to be tension :confused:


  • #59
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,844 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    We should really stop bringing other sports into it when an athlete gets caught.


  • #60
    skyblue46
    Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    I’m basically disproving the nonsense that doping helps somebody in one sport more than another. Physical fitness is huge in every sport, and so doping plays a big role across the board in terms of various sports.

    Well here I'll say goodbye so. You are basically saying that all sports have an equal balance between skill, endurance and fitness? That no sports can derive more benefit from drugs than another? And you have proven this?


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  • #61
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    average_runner wrote: »
    Cough cough 2012 European cup final. International

    The year after which Arsenal Wenger publicly stated that the game was full of drug cheats.


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