Tubeless road - it actually works

cython · 18-10-2018 12:34pm

harringtonp wrote: »

I know nothing about tire boots and this may be a silly question but do you generally stick them to the inside or outside of the tire ?

For tubeless you really want something that you can stick on the outside.

Boots generally go on the inside from what I've seen, for a few reasons:

They're not particularly grippy rubber to ride on (adhesive on them is a different story)
Sticking material to the outside means that the same friction as holds you on the road/propels you is also pulling at said material and trying to remove it
It's more difficult to force the entire boot through the hole in the tyre, than to just blow it off the outside - the same pressure as might push it out also produces (in a tubed setup) friction retaining the boot against the tyre wall.

If you find yourself using a boot with a tubless tyre, you're probably sticking a tube in too, to be honest.

harringtonp wrote: »

Any views on this guys ?

While I'd never run a tubeless setup, I'd imagine you need sealant every time to avoid what you describe. If you've ever seen a car tyre installed, there's a sealant put all around the bead and wheel joint to fill any gaps, and those tyres are only inflated to approx 1/3 the pressure of a road bike tyre. 90 PSI will always find a way to escape through the smallest of holes/gaps, and while the tyre can expand to mount into the notch on the wheel, the bead is not to pliant as to be able to fight tight to every little notch/scratch inside the wheel rim, nor is the rubber on the bead ever 100% even in my experience.

Perciville · 18-10-2018 1:14pm

Did you hear a clack/pop when inflating the tyre? If not then maybe it's not seated fully. I've had this issue previously and used a c02 cannister and a few blasts from a track pump to get it seated. Someone here also recommended an additional layer of rim tape if the tyre is not seating properly.

brownian · 18-10-2018 2:13pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Any views on this guys ?

My 'understanding' is that sealant is part and parcel of the tubeless package, and that you should expect air loss without it...that it seals the rim, as well as any little holes that you might pick up.

Why would you ride without sealant...what's going to fix your punctures for you, if you have no sealant in?

Unless I have the wrong end of the stick entirely, of course 8-)

harringtonp · 18-10-2018 2:43pm

Thanks guys,

I always ride a tubeless setup with sealant. Even though I replaced the tire recently the reason I haven't put sealant in is that I don't intend on using the wheel again until next March so no point leaving it idle in there. This hasn't happened before so I notice the daily pressure loss.

I did hear pops when I first seated the tire and believe there is as good contact as you can get between rim and bead

bingobars · 19-10-2018 1:09am

Ok. I love this thread ðŸ˜˜ I have to admit it. 1 month on tubeless and the ride is incredible. Fast and smooth. Have had a couple of sealant spews which I’ve decided after inspection have been piercings of the tire. I’ve never been caught on the side of the road but I do notice that a sealed tire will not hold 90psi again. More like 70psi max. Exceed that and you pop a sealed hole. So I’m motoring about on around 60-50 psi on 25x700. So in hindsight. Run tubeless on 28-30x700 and you have a dream ride? Would need to test it now I’ll say but we’re onto something special with tubeless. I figure I’ll need to top up on sealant soon as I’m 4 piercings in I lose a little on each jab

fat bloke · 19-10-2018 7:54am

I need to bite the bullet and set up and start using my new wheels for the winter. Still have Wicklow gap anxiety - being stranded a long way from home!

Gerry · 19-10-2018 10:19am

I'm now considering this after a recent puncture. I'm familiar with tubeless from mountain bikes and have had good results with both tubeless ready and non tubeless wheels. Wondering has everyone on this thread used tubeless specific wheels? I have read that my wheels ( giant PR2 2015 ) work fine when set up tubeless but it may not be worth the hassle.

Perciville · 19-10-2018 10:57am

In general I'm happy with tubeless. Am running schwalbe pro one 28s on giant slr1 rims. Haven't had a puncture since moving to tubeless around Sept 2017. Have changed tyres a couple of times and have the hang of fitting them now, although it does take a bit of getting used to.

The one caveat I have is that sometimes they can be an absolute nightmare to unseat. As in major. I changed the two tyres recently. Back tyre was reasonably straightforward and came off without too much force, but for some reason, one side of the front tyre wouldn't come away from the rim. It literally took hours of effort with pliers and in the end I had to resort to cutting the bead with a stanley knife. Admittedly, tapping a keyboard and pushing a mouse has lead to pretty weak hands, but there was no budging this.

I don't know if it's just an unlucky combination of the tyre and rim (being from different manufacturers). But this can't be normal surely.

If anyone else has had similar experiences, with a workable solution, I'd love to hear.

brownian · 19-10-2018 3:37pm

fat bloke wrote: »

I need to bite the bullet and set up and start using my new wheels for the winter. Still have Wicklow gap anxiety - being stranded a long way from home!

You can put a tube in, and ride home in the usual way. Try it at home, the first time.

who_ru · 20-10-2018 8:14pm

I haven’t ridden my tubeless set up in about 6 weeks, bike hasn’t moved. Would a spin of the wheels before going. Out suffice or should I top up? I’m pretty new to tubeless and current tires fitted by the shop I bought the bike in. Got a puncture in the rear tyre on 2nd spin, tube in there now but have 2 new tires sourced. Both gavia 28mm. I have sealent and a valve core remover.

What pump would you recommend for inflating the tyre, I don’t have one.

kind of dreading 1st tyre replacement :—|

brownian · 22-10-2018 5:08pm

As HarringtonP said a few pages back, the Lifeline Airblast. I got one, on his recommendation, and it does what you'd hope. Took a couple of tries, but then worked as planned.

Alternatively, get a car-valve to bike-valve (schraeder to presta, IIRC) adaptor for a couple of quid, and take a trip to your local garage. Even easier than the Airblast. Pop pop and you're done.

Once the rims are seated, you can let the air out, put in the sealant and re-inflate - the tyres don't (for me, at least, so far) come off the rims when the air comes out.

harringtonp · 22-10-2018 6:52pm

brownian wrote: »

Once the rims are seated, you can let the air out, put in the sealant and re-inflate - the tyres don't (for me, at least, so far) come off the rims when the air comes out.

Same here, once seated they stay on without air

who_ru · 23-10-2018 7:47pm

brownian wrote: »

As HarringtonP said a few pages back, the Lifeline Airblast. I got one, on his recommendation, and it does what you'd hope. Took a couple of tries, but then worked as planned.

Alternatively, get a car-valve to bike-valve (schraeder to presta, IIRC) adaptor for a couple of quid, and take a trip to your local garage. Even easier than the Airblast. Pop pop and you're done.

Once the rims are seated, you can let the air out, put in the sealant and re-inflate - the tyres don't (for me, at least, so far) come off the rims when the air comes out.

Thanks.

Have you ever found yourself need to take a tire off while out on the road, after a flat for example and needed to pop a tube in. Must be extremely difficult to get the tire off I’d imagine. I saw a Giant video on YouTube on how to put a tubeless tire on and add sealant. The guy in the video recommend always taking a tube out on a cycle. Thought that was odd.

Leroy42 · 24-10-2018 11:31am

So based on peoples experiences, what would be the suggestion for the perfect tubeless set up in terms of tyres, tools etc.

Do people use the syringe injection to put sealant through the value?
Should I get the large bottle (500ml etc) or just the smaller bottles? Larger are more cost effective but how often will I need it?
What level of sealant is required in each wheel?
How often is sealant required to be reapplied?
What sort of pressures are people using on tubeless on the road?
Is it necessary to get better tyre irons based on the harder to put on tyres?
Is a track pump sufficient most of the time to mount the tyres?
Can normal (ie non tubeless with tubes) be used on tubeless rims?

Underpinner · 24-10-2018 11:58am

I bought Schwalbe Doc Blue 500ml. It comes with a smaller 60ml bottle.
On my road bike I put 30 ml in each tyre.
I refill every three months or so. Although if I have a puncture that's sealed - I had one which sprayed sealant before it sealed - I top up.
I run at 75/80psi. I did 60km on the Waterford Greenway at about 60psi, using a handpump after the puncture described above sealed. I had no problems at 60psi. Rolled fine.
I changed tyres using my normal tyre levers though there are tubeless specific ones for sale.
I used a Giant Control Tank along with my track pump to seat a tyre. I found the pump wasn't sufficient.
Yes to your last question.

Leroy42 · 24-10-2018 12:07pm

Cheers, thank you for those responses. There are such a wide variety of options it is easy to get lost on what to go with.

Macy0161 · 24-10-2018 12:36pm

Ordered a Schrader to Presta valve converter for the father in laws compressor this morning to have a go at a ghetto conversion on the MTB. I have PR2's on the commuter/ winter bike - might order enough sealant to have a go at that wheel set too.

harringtonp · 24-10-2018 1:24pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

So based on peoples experiences, what would be the suggestion for the perfect tubeless set up in terms of tyres, tools etc.

Do people use the syringe injection to put sealant through the value?

Bottle with small nozzle

Should I get the large bottle (500ml etc) or just the smaller bottles? Larger are more cost effective but how often will I need it?

Get large and be done with it, small is too small

What level of sealant is required in each wheel?

30mm

How often is sealant required to be reapplied?

Told by wheelbuilder 3 months summer, 6 months winter due to it being colder

What sort of pressures are people using on tubeless on the road?

75 front, 80 rear for about 80kg weight

Is it necessary to get better tyre irons based on the harder to put on tyres?

If your tyre goes on easily I'd say no, if its a bitch to get on then buy the irons for when
you have to take it off

Is a track pump sufficient most of the time to mount the tyres?

Based on the 2 rim types I've tried I'd say no

Can normal (ie non tubeless with tubes) be used on tubeless rims?

Yes

Answers inline

harringtonp · 24-10-2018 1:26pm

who_ru wrote: »

Thanks.
Must be extremely difficult to get the tire off I’d imagine.

guess it all comes down to the tyre/rim combo. So far been no problem for me but reading above a nightmare for others

kayaksurfbum · 05-12-2018 11:06am

Do you ever need to clean out the old sealant from the tyre? Or does it just go to dust?

Gerry · 06-12-2018 9:48am

Macy0161 wrote: »

Ordered a Schrader to Presta valve converter for the father in laws compressor this morning to have a go at a ghetto conversion on the MTB. I have PR2's on the commuter/ winter bike - might order enough sealant to have a go at that wheel set too.

Great , let us know how you get on. The MTB should be fine, I'm wondering about the PR2. I read bits and pieces on the internet to suggest that they work tubeless.

fat bloke · 28-12-2018 8:43pm

I was out today talking tubeless tires with my fellow roadies. I was explaining how a tube can be fitted to tubeless tires to get you home in a bind, but my confidence and expertise quickly folded under questioning!

Specifically - how do you remove the existing tubeless valve stem. Am I supposed to carry a wrench or vice grips or something to do that at the side of the road or is there a trick to it? - I'm running mavic ksyrium Elite UST's..

who_ru · 28-12-2018 10:48pm

Hi

Can i ask if anyone is running giant tubeless Gavia tyres? How do you find them?

I think grip is poor in wet conditions, i don't have much confidence in them. These are 25mm tyres.

A while back i ordered 28mm tyres hoping grip will improve in the wet. 28mm may slow down performance though

Be nice to hear how others are getting on with gavia

H.E. Pennypacker · 28-12-2018 10:52pm

fat bloke wrote: »

I was out today talking tubeless tires with my fellow roadies. I was explaining how a tube can be fitted to tubeless tires to get you home in a bind, but my confidence and expertise quickly folded under questioning!

Specifically - how do you remove the existing tubeless valve stem. Am I supposed to carry a wrench or vice grips or something to do that at the side of the road or is there a trick to it? - I'm running mavic ksyrium Elite UST's..

My knowledge is all theoretical (although I'm in the process of switching to tubeless). One school of thought is that you should never need an inner tube (https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/pages/tech-page)

The other is that the locknut for the tubeless valve doesn't need to be overly tight - the first link above suggests otherwise...

https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/lock-nut-removal-tubeless-valve-1018020.html

H.E. Pennypacker · 28-12-2018 11:04pm

who_ru wrote: »

Hi

Can i ask if anyone is running giant tubeless Gavia tyres? How do you find them?

I think grip is poor in wet conditions, i don't have much confidence in them. These are 25mm tyres.

A while back i ordered 28mm tyres hoping grip will improve in the wet. 28mm may slow down performance though

Be nice to hear how others are getting on with gavia

I've got a bike with them. They've been better than I expected but I'd imagine that other manufacturers make a better tyre. I'm planning to swap mine out when I get more time but for the moment they're fine. I found that I had to reduce my tyre pressures by 10 psi front & back for them to feel in any way decent. I'd suggest that you have a think about your tyre pressures and if that doesn't work then look at a better brand like the new Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance (https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/reviews/components/cycle-tyres/hutchinson-fusion-5-performance-tyre-review.html)

harringtonp · 29-12-2018 3:50pm

fat bloke wrote: »

I was out today talking tubeless tires with my fellow roadies. I was explaining how a tube can be fitted to tubeless tires to get you home in a bind, but my confidence and expertise quickly folded under questioning!

Specifically - how do you remove the existing tubeless valve stem. Am I supposed to carry a wrench or vice grips or something to do that at the side of the road or is there a trick to it? - I'm running mavic ksyrium Elite UST's..

Much the same as an ordinary tube. There is a nut which you unscrew on the outside and then you just push it out

fat bloke · 29-12-2018 4:20pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Much the same as an ordinary tube. There is a nut which you unscrew on the outside and then you just push it out

That's the thing though innit. After 12 months of elemental exposure, how easy will it be to loosen that nut in fading light up the Sally gap

harringtonp · 29-12-2018 8:07pm

fat bloke wrote: »

That's the thing though innit. After 12 months of elemental exposure, how easy will it be to loosen that nut in fading light up the Sally gap

In that regard its no different to any other screw head or adjuster on the bike, you need to check every now and then that they still move. I don't do it myself but a quick check every time you pump up the tyre wouldn't go astray

harringtonp · 19-03-2019 6:11pm

Question guys. Recently replaced rear tubeless tyre and filled it with sealant. Topped up front tyre as well while at it.

While the front maintains the same pressure for days the rear acts like a latex tube... it lost pressure over a couple of days. I added more sealant and it helps but it still loses pressure over a few days.

Could be just a case of adding even more sealant but any ideas ?

H.E. Pennypacker · 19-03-2019 8:36pm

harringtonp wrote: »

Question guys. Recently replaced rear tubeless tyre and filled it with sealant. Topped up front tyre as well while at it.

While the front maintains the same pressure for days the rear acts like a latex tube... it lost pressure over a couple of days. I added more sealant and it helps but it still loses pressure over a few days.

Could be just a case of adding even more sealant but any ideas ?

Try leaving it with the valve nearest the ground and see if that helps - might be leaky around the valve or maybe the valve is a bit bunged up with sealant and not fully closed. Otherwise, I’d check the rim tape. It’s worth inflating the tyre with no sealant first time just to see if it leaks. It should hold decent pressure for a week or two without sealant and it’s a lot easier to sort things out if there’s no sealant to clean up.

Tubeless road - it actually works

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