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The WHO wants to prevent all women of "child-bearing age" from drinking alcohol

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Comments

  • #2
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,975 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    They don't "want", they are advising.


  • #3
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Any chance you could quote where that is said? That document is 37 pages long.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    There's no "controlling women" it's just highly advisable.


  • #5
    pappyodaniel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭pappyodaniel


    I never listen to anything Roger Daltrey has to say.


  • #6
    ghostfacekilla
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭ghostfacekilla


    Nobody will ever get laid again.


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  • #7
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,579 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Jesus lets hope Tony Holohan doesnt see this document - hes completely anti-alcohol as it is.

    Pregnancy test before you order your outdoor pints??

    But it will have to be a blood test as those urine tests cant be trusted and can be faked.


  • #8
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    birthing units should not be drinking


  • #9
    Porklife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Porklife


    Lurleen wrote: »
    There's no "controlling women" it's just highly advisable.

    It absolutely is about controlling women. As a recently pregnant woman I can strongly say I've never felt under more scrutiny or judgement from ordering a coffee in starbucks and being asked should I have decaf instead, to getting funny looks in the park drinking a non alcoholic beer on a sunny day. It's my body, my baby and my choice.
    There are millions of women of child bearing age conceiving and delivering perfectly healthy babies who drink alcohol. Why shouldn't a 25 year old girl enjoy a glass of wine? It's absolutely ridiculous.
    Drinking sensibly is highly advisable and should be advocated but that applies to everyone and not just women of a certain age.


  • #10
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Very dramatic and fake thread title there.


  • #11
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Porklife wrote: »
    It absolutely is about controlling women. As a recently pregnant woman I can strongly say I've never felt under more scrutiny or judgement from ordering a coffee in starbucks and being asked should I have decaf instead, to getting funny looks in the park drinking a non alcoholic beer on a sunny day. It's my body, my baby and my choice.
    There are millions of women of child bearing age conceiving and delivering perfectly healthy babies who drink alcohol. Why shouldn't a 25 year old girl enjoy a glass of wine? It's absolutely ridiculous.
    Drinking sensibly is highly advisable and should be advocated but that applies to everyone and not just women of a certain age.

    Was probably your hormones, be grand after you have some wine!


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  • #12
    Jeremy Happy Stagehand
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jeremy Happy Stagehand


    A total non-story.

    "Alcohol is bad for you."


  • #13
    Porklife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Porklife


    frag420 wrote: »
    Was probably your hormones, be grand after you have some wine!

    My thoughts exactly:p


  • #14
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Ideal time for biological women of child bearing age to self ID as transmen. Free to do whatever they want then. As men can. But wait.... women only have a window of about 30 + years within which they can conceive. Men on the other hand can impregnate until they are boxed (as my granny used to say). Can't be having men without a pint all their lives now can we?


  • #15
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,667 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Porklife wrote: »
    It's my body, my baby and my choice.
    .... Why shouldn't a 25 year old girl enjoy a glass of wine? It's absolutely ridiculous.
    Drinking sensibly is highly advisable and should be advocated but that applies to everyone and not just women of a certain age.

    Drinking sensibly is less harmful than drinking insensiblly. But it's not as good as not drinking.

    There is no safe level of alcohol in pregnancy.

    And it is society's issue, because society picks up up enormous costs when a kid is born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Even low birthweight pushes up the health system costs. And the kid feels the effects for its entire life.

    So your body, your choices, but big effects for others.


  • #16
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Very dramatic and fake thread title there.
    Not fake, below is a quote from page 17 of the WHO document
    WHO wrote:
    Appropriate attention should be given to
    prevention of the initiation of drinking among children and adolescents, prevention of drinking among pregnant women and women of childbearing age, and protection of people from pressures to drink


  • #17
    honeyjo
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭honeyjo


    Welcome to Gilead. Blessed be the fruit


  • #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Women have it the worst. Imagine being told information that may assist you with fertility? Bastards.


  • #19
    Hadron Collider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭Hadron Collider


    Porklife wrote: »
    There are millions of women of child bearing age conceiving and delivering perfectly healthy babies who drink alcohol.

    There are also millions of women whose drinking during pregnancy led to miscarriage, stillbirth, or a range of lifelong physical, behavioral, and intellectual disabilities inflicted on their children.
    Why shouldn't a 25 year old girl enjoy a glass of wine?

    Why can't a 25-year-old pregnant woman act responsibly and lay off the bottle for 9 months for the sake of her child?


  • #20
    Tommybojangles
    Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭Tommybojangles


    Health organisation:
    "Alcohol is maybe not great"

    Crazies:
    "You'll never take my FREEEEEEDDDOOOMM"


  • #21
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Hadron Collider wrote: »
    .........


    Why can't a 25-year-old pregnant woman act responsibly and lay off the bottle for 9 months for the sake of her child?


    A couple of drinks per week might help your child not to turn out a slow pain in the ass :


    Boys born to mothers who had up to 1–2 drinks per week or per occasion were less likely to have conduct problems (OR 0.59, 95% CI 0.45–0.77) and hyperactivity (OR 0.71, 95% CI 0.54–0.94). These effects remained in fully adjusted models. Girls were less likely to have emotional symptoms (OR 0.72, 95% CI 0.51–1.01) and peer problems (OR 0.68, 95% CI 0.52–0.92) compared with those born to abstainers. These effects were attenuated in fully adjusted models. Boys born to light drinkers had higher cognitive ability test scores [standard deviations, (95% CI)] BAS 0.15 (0.08–0.23) BSRA 0.24 (0.16–0.32) compared with boys born to abstainers



    but tell some people "a few" and they take it as a few shelves /crates leading to

    Hadron Collider wrote: »
    There are also millions of women whose drinking during pregnancy led to miscarriage, stillbirth, or a range of lifelong physical, behavioral, and intellectual disabilities inflicted on their children


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  • #22
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    BrianD3 wrote: »
    Not fake, below is a quote from page 17 of the WHO document

    You literally quote something that agrees with my post mate. The post thread title is classic fake news.
    Tommybojangles wrote: »
    Health organisation:
    "Alcohol is maybe not great"

    Crazies:
    "You'll never take my FREEEEEEDDDOOOMM"

    You'd worry about our education system and the amount of crazies coming out of it.


  • #23
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,274 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Hadron Collider wrote: »
    Why can't a 25-year-old pregnant woman act responsibly and lay off the bottle for 9 months for the sake of her child?

    Many do, but that's not what's at issue here. As quoted above:
    WHO wrote:
    Appropriate attention should be given to
    prevention of the initiation of drinking among children and adolescents, prevention of drinking among pregnant women and women of childbearing age, and protection of people from pressures to drink

    So what they're suggesting is that whether a woman is pregnant or not she should lay off the sauce until she can no longer have kids. That seems unnecessarily draconian.


  • #24
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    What would Keith Moon have thought of this latest nonsense from The Who?


  • #25
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Trust the science ladies :pac:


  • #26
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,352 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    I wouldn't have thought anyone involved in putting that message out believes for a second that women will not drink as a result of it. More so it's simply a reminder of how alcohol can be damaging, and in a perfect world you wouldn't poison your body with it.

    I remember seeing women smoking outside Holles Street when my missus was having our kids. Pregnant women in dressing gowns smoking on the street outside the hospital about to give birth, or having just done so. Most women wouldn't dream of doing that sort of thing but the WHO has to target the demographic that does and try to make them understand the damage substances like alcohol and tobacco have.

    Glazers Out!



  • #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    There is no safe level of alcohol in pregnancy.

    I believe that sentence is a direct quote from WHO from some years back right?

    Unfortunately it is an oft misconstrued sentence. It is often read as meaning that any alcohol during pregnancy is unsafe or harmful. But that is not what the phrase means at all.

    What the phrase means is that there is no level that has been studied and declared safe. You could say the same thing about eating peanuts.

    Basically the phrase means that while there is no reason at all to think that low levels of drinking during pregnancy is at all likely to be harmful - the fact there are "individual sensitivities" - as WHO puts it - means they are neither in a position to declare any level at all "safe" either.

    To use an analogy - it would be like me walking up to you in the Departures Terminal and declaring that no amount of airtravel can be declared "safe" because there is always a chance - however small - it is going to kill you. No amount of being stung by wasps is declared "safe" either. There is no "safe level" of wasp stings.

    You should still feel just fine getting on the plane. Just like a pregnant women sitting in a restaurant should feel fine having a glass of wine.

    A lot of people look into it but usually in the end they just play it safe and admit that while they can not find any issues with drinking moderately - you might as well just not do it anyway. For example there was a study in 2012 which tested this in over 1600 women and concluded no "significant effects of low to moderate alcohol consumption during pregnancy on executive functioning at the age of 5 years. Furthermore, only weak and no consistent associations between maternal binge drinking and executive functions were observed."

    While a Time Magazine article noted:

    "This wasn’t just an absence of any evidence at all. There are many studies—largely from Europe—which compare women who do not drink at all to those who drink lightly in pregnancy. Some of these are better than others—some of the best are a series of studies from Denmark—but their results consistently fail to show negative impacts of pregnancy drinking at low levels."

    So yea I think looking at all the advice and all the studies the safe thing is to say you should avoid heavy or binge drinking at the best of times but especially during pregnancy and double especially during early pregnancy. But suggesting women should not drink _at all_ during pregnancy - and especially simply just during child bearing age - is either complete fantasy or is based on some new research results I have not gotten around to reading yet.


  • #28
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,655 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Zaph wrote: »
    So what they're suggesting is that whether a woman is pregnant or not she should lay off the sauce until she can no longer have kids. That seems unnecessarily draconian.


    Well yes, it does... until it's read in it's proper context -


    Action area 2: Advocacy, awareness and commitment

    Strategic and well-developed international communication and advocacy are needed to raise awareness about alcohol-related harm and the effectiveness of policy measures among decisionmakers and the general public in order to increase their support for faster implementation of the Global strategy. Special efforts and activities are needed to mobilize different stakeholders for coordinated actions to protect public health and foster broad political commitment to reduce the harmful use of alcohol.

    It is necessary to raise awareness among decision-makers and the general public about the risks and harms associated with alcohol consumption. Appropriate attention should be given to prevention of the initiation of drinking among children and adolescents, prevention of drinking among pregnant women and women of childbearing age, and protection of people from pressures to drink, especially in societies with high levels of alcohol consumption where heavy drinkers are encouraged to drink even more. An international day or week of awareness on the harmful use of alcohol or a “World no alcohol day/week” could help to focus and reinforce public attention on the problem. Public health advocacy is more likely to succeed if it is well supported by evidence and based on emerging opportunities, and if the arguments are free from moralizing. The international discourse on alcohol policy development and implementation should address health inequalities associated with the harmful use of alcohol and its broad socioeconomic impact, including its impact on attainment of the health and other targets of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development. The impact of harmful use of alcohol on health and well-being should not be limited to the impact on NCDs, but should be expanded to include other areas of health and development such as mental health, injuries, violence, infectious diseases, productivity at workplaces, family functioning and a “harm to others” perspective. Modern communication technologies and multimedia materials are needed for successful advocacy and behavioural change campaigns, including social media engagement.

    Such awareness, along with the development and enforcement of alcohol policies, needs to be protected from interference by commercial interests. Appropriate mechanisms that involve academia and civil society must be set up to systematically monitor such interference.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    Women have it the worst. Imagine being told information that may assist you with fertility? Bastards.


    It's a fair point. The document doesn't make any mention of the impact of alcohol upon male fertility. Contrary to the OP's assertion though that this seems like an attempt to control women, it's made clear in the introduction of the document that -


    The information in this document does not necessarily represent the stated views or policies of the World Health Organization. The responsibility for the interpretation and use of the material lies with the reader.


    We can all relax now :D


  • #29
    appledrop
    Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭appledrop


    One of the absolutely most disgraceful recommendations every published.

    So basicially all women shouldn't drink alcohol for 32 years between the age of 18-50 in case they get pregnant?

    Are they actually for real?

    Yes we know alcohol not recommended when pregnant, that's grand but we can't for 32 years worry about whether or not we will get pregnant this month!


  • #30
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    Hadron Collider wrote: »
    There are also millions of women whose drinking during pregnancy led to miscarriage, stillbirth, or a range of lifelong physical, behavioral, and intellectual disabilities inflicted on their children.



    Why can't a 25-year-old pregnant woman act responsibly and lay off the bottle for 9 months for the sake of her child?

    Poster didn’t say anything about a 25 year old pregnant woman drinking. They said a 25 year old women. The WHO reports says pregnant women and women of childbearing age.
    So the question remains why shouldn’t a 25 year old woman drink alcohol when she is not pregnant?

    I am currently pregnant and hadn’t drank in couple months before conceiving. I knew we were trying for a baby and that I wouldn’t know straight away if I was pregnant or not so didn’t bother drinking. The report specifically mentioned prevention. If it said education about alcohol risks then that is fair enough.


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  • #31
    appledrop
    Registered Users Posts: 5,789 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Drinking sensibly is less harmful than drinking insensiblly. But it's not as good as not drinking.

    There is no safe level of alcohol in pregnancy.

    And it is society's issue, because society picks up up enormous costs when a kid is born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Even low birthweight pushes up the health system costs. And the kid feels the effects for its entire life.

    So your body, your choices, but big effects for others.

    Eh I think your missing the point. We all know drinking in pregnancy itself is harmful, but WHO are saying all women of childbearing age shouldn't be drinking even if your not pregnant!!!!!!!


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