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Can I block up vents with expaning foam?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 31,001 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Heighway61 wrote: »
    Is the danger carbon monoxide build up? I blocked off mine, a sitting room with a wood burning stove. At the same time I put in a carbon monoxide alarm which hasn't triggerd since I blocked off the vent.
    You're risking lung cancer from smoke inhalation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,385 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I know a few people that have blocked them up for various reasons (Cold air, letting outside noise in, etc.). No one has died yet, or developed breathing issues.

    There probably is a legitimate need for them, but my attitude to them has always been 'block them up' as I find they're a nuisance and a needlessly exaggerated step towards ventilation. No one needs a 4" hole in their sitting room wall. It's overkill.

    That said, use an old T-shirt or something, using expanding foam makes it tricky to remove, should you reconsider.

    Like Twitter should this site start tagging posts with warning messages when they have no basis in factual evidence.

    Things like 'i know a few people' and 'no one needs'

    Its like sitting beside the lad in the pub going on about Fiats and Renaults.

    Depressing stuff all the same.

    Dam the experts. Sure why do they bother their arse putting these things on plans in the first place when KKV on boards says they arent needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    listermint wrote: »
    Like Twitter should this site start tagging posts with warning messages when they have no basis in factual evidence.

    Things like 'i know a few people' and 'no one needs'

    Its like sitting beside the lad in the pub going on about Fiats and Renaults.

    Depressing stuff all the same.

    Dam the experts. Sure why do they bother their arse putting these things on plans in the first place when KKV on boards says they arent needed.

    Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
    I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,385 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
    I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?

    because people arent willing to pay more for MHRV to be installed. A home owner can do that OR control via passive ventilation. Again its all down to cost.

    But you NEED ventilation , simple as that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
    I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?

    Majority are cheaply & lazily done - a hollow PVC pipe and two plastic vent coverings drilled in on either side. It literally is just a hole in the wall - and the noise, awful.

    You can do stuff to reduce the noise, and to stop wind from blowing straight in, but be wary of anything that significantly reduces airflow through the vent.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    listermint wrote: »
    Like Twitter should this site start tagging posts with warning messages when they have no basis in factual evidence.

    Things like 'i know a few people' and 'no one needs'

    Its like sitting beside the lad in the pub going on about Fiats and Renaults.

    Depressing stuff all the same.

    Dam the experts. Sure why do they bother their arse putting these things on plans in the first place when KKV on boards says they arent needed.

    Well, myself and my family are still alive that's factual enough for me:)
    I've owned both Renaults and Fiats, anything in particular you'd like to know?
    P.s. Damn (the word is damn) the word you used keeps back water, lots of water not lots of experts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    listermint wrote: »
    because people arent willing to pay more for MHRV to be installed. A home owner can do that OR control via passive ventilation. Again its all down to cost.

    But you NEED ventilation , simple as that.

    I understand respiration and combustion if applicable! My question is the idea of putting in a hole in the wall that results in air from outside blowing in at outside would seem to defeat the point of insulation.
    I did see on this forum I think a link to a small vent based heat exchanger.
    timmyntc wrote: »
    Majority are cheaply & lazily done - a hollow PVC pipe and two plastic vent coverings drilled in on either side. It literally is just a hole in the wall - and the noise, awful.

    You can do stuff to reduce the noise, and to stop wind from blowing straight in, but be wary of anything that significantly reduces airflow through the vent.

    I know that I am a adult renter in Ireland! On that note having lived and stayed abroad other countries don't seem to generally have vents like they do in Ireland.

    Basically what's the recommended rate of air flow that's safe, in in other places is it lower, is Ireland an outlier?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Serious question though, why go to serious amount of effort to insulate a house and then have a big vent in it blowing in a breeze?
    I know heat exchangers are more of a thing now but not in all the houses that get done?

    You go to serious amounts of effort to reduce the heat loss from a house (insulation and air tightness) but you then need to have either a ventilation system or strategy to get rid of the moisture (avg family of 2 adults & 3 kids put out between 12 & 18 litres of water per 24 hours from normal activities inside the home). This moisture needs to be gotten rid of or you will end up with issues such as mould and higher heating bills.
    Unfortunately, "hole in wall" vents as a system has been proven to be a poor choice by the building industry.

    If you block up your vents and don't get a problem of excess moisture and associated issues, then your house is already so leaky that they are not needed and blocking them gives a placebo effect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    You go to serious amounts of effort to reduce the heat loss from a house (insulation and air tightness) but you then need to have either a ventilation system or strategy to get rid of the moisture (avg family of 2 adults & 3 kids put out between 12 & 18 litres of water per 24 hours from normal activities inside the home). This moisture needs to be gotten rid of or you will end up with issues such as mould and higher heating bills.
    Unfortunately, "hole in wall" vents as a system has been proven to be a poor choice by the building industry.

    If you block up your vents and don't get a problem of excess moisture and associated issues, then your house is already so leaky that they are not needed and blocking them gives a placebo effect.

    The only part of your post I agree with, the rest is alarmist rubbish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭MicktheMan



    Basically what's the recommended rate of air flow that's safe, in in other places is it lower, is Ireland an outlier?

    Interesting question that.
    Were the other places you lived colder in winter?
    We have a relatively moderate climate here (i.e. it doesn't really get cold in winter like it would in central or eastern Europe) so the "efficiency" of our ventilation systems is significantly lower than colder regions. This then means that it is more difficult here to rid the moisture from houses.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    The only part of your post I agree with, the rest is alarmist rubbish.

    Each to their own:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,001 ✭✭✭✭Lumen




  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    New build in an estate, we'd no say in spec or would have gone MHRV


    To clarify we've no stove/gas all electric in the house.

    If the only concern outside of that would be airflow we do open windows daily to air the place?

    If its a new build then probably/hopefully the rest of the house is quite airtight.
    If you remove the last source for fresh air in your house then you are asking for trouble (for both you and the house)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Interesting question that.
    Were the other places you lived colder in winter?
    We have a relatively moderate climate here (i.e. it doesn't really get cold in winter like it would in central or eastern Europe) so the "efficiency" of out ventilation systems is significantly lower that colder regions. This then means that it is more difficult here to rid the moisture from houses.

    Just open the window:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭PCros


    So I have a 35 year old home with the aul hole in the cavity block vent system. Metal grill on the external wall and plastic sliders on the internal wall.

    1) We have one front facing room that takes a lot of traffic noise so this is currently semi blocked, the rest of the rooms are open. Is there a company in Ireland that provides upgrades to vent systems in older houses or even units that slot into the cavity block that decrease sound whilst maintaining airflow?

    2) In the interim would a decent dehumidifier in said room counteract any humidity?

    TIA


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Alkers


    PCros wrote: »
    So I have a 35 year old home with the aul hole in the cavity block vent system. Metal grill on the external wall and plastic sliders on the internal wall.

    1) We have one front facing room that takes a lot of traffic noise so this is currently semi blocked, the rest of the rooms are open. Is there a company in Ireland that provides upgrades to vent systems in older houses or even units that slot into the cavity block that decrease sound whilst maintaining airflow?

    2) In the interim would a decent dehumidifier in said room counteract any humidity?

    TIA
    Take the cover off the existing vent and measure the diameter of the hole, then you'll easily fine a replacement vent for it, you can get accoustic versions and even humidity controlled ones which vary air flow with demand


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭PCros


    Alkers wrote: »
    Take the cover off the existing vent and measure the diameter of the hole, then you'll easily fine a replacement vent for it, you can get accoustic versions and even humidity controlled ones which vary air flow with demand

    Thanks for the reply.

    Are these of any use?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klimapartner-ESD-100-line-Absorbing/dp/B0133DPDSO/ref=asc_df_B0133DPDSO/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=231920353356&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1927715072931611861&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007850&hvtargid=pla-422799557223&th=1


  • Subscribers Posts: 683 ✭✭✭FlipperThePriest


    There's a fair amount of bad advice on this thread. A few of the resident experts seem to be refusing to engage, probably in the same way a scientist wouldn't engage with an antivaxxer... because there's just no point, and I wouldn't blame them. Doesn't bode well for anyone in the future coming across the thread though.

    I would highly recommend that people with blocked vents buy a handful of hygrometers online and drop them around the house to learn how their house responds to inhabitants. If the relative humidity is consistently over 60% day or night then you need more ventilation.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thlevel-Temperature-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Greenhouse/dp/B07JW7K2M5/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=hygrometer+pack&qid=1605889581&sr=8-6

    I would guess that 9 out of 10 times the type of person blocking vents in a modern house is also the type of person that will skimp on opening windows adequately and decide it's too cold outside. Bedroom windows open for a bit before work in the morning for example isn't going to cut it.

    I would find out how to block the wind, not the air.

    Few years ago I bought a 1970s bungalow and have recently upgraded insulation, airtightness (to a fair degree) and upgraded the heating system and controls. I now find that the windows need to be left on the ventilation lock (cracked open) day and night to keep the place 50-60%. I will eventually install a heat recovery system. I don't have vents at the moment, so windows it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    zippy84 wrote: »
    There's a fair amount of bad advice on this thread. A few of the resident experts seem to be refusing to engage, probably in the same way a scientist wouldn't engage with an antivaxxer... because there's just no point, and I wouldn't blame them. Doesn't bode well for anyone in the future coming across the thread though.

    I would highly recommend that people with blocked vents buy a handful of hygrometers online and drop them around the house to learn how their house responds to inhabitants. If the relative humidity is consistently over 60% day or night then you need more ventilation.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thlevel-Temperature-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Greenhouse/dp/B07JW7K2M5/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=hygrometer+pack&qid=1605889581&sr=8-6

    I would guess that 9 out of 10 times the type of person blocking vents in a modern house is also the type of person that will skimp on opening windows adequately and decide it's too cold outside. Bedroom windows open for a bit before work in the morning for example isn't going to cut it.

    I would find out how to block the wind, not the air.

    Few years ago I bought a 1970s bungalow and have recently upgraded insulation, airtightness (to a fair degree) and upgraded the heating system and controls. I now find that the windows need to be left on the ventilation lock (cracked open) day and night to keep the place 50-60%. I will eventually install a heat recovery system. I don't have vents at the moment, so windows it is.

    More untrue assumptions, at least you didn't call me/us Trump supporters. 55% all day every day as reported by 3 hygrometers. The heating (oil) (outside burner) runs for 2.5 hours a day, no stoves or open fires. Yes, all my children are Vaccinated, I'll just nip that one in the bud. I have been in an Aeroplane so I know the earth is round.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,385 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    More untrue assumptions, at least you didn't call me/us Trump supporters. 55% all day every day as reported by 3 hygrometers. The heating (oil) (outside burner) runs for 2.5 hours a day, no stoves or open fires. Yes, all my children are Vaccinated, I'll just nip that one in the bud. I have been in an Aeroplane so I know the earth is round.

    You've brought me around with this one,

    It's totally amazing. The engineers and architects in Ireland have been doing it wrong all these years.

    Would you mind putting together a letter to the construction industry federation Ireland to tell them how vents are a con. They'd make a saving on the effort of leaving these slots open or core drilling. Win win all round


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  • Subscribers Posts: 683 ✭✭✭FlipperThePriest


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    More untrue assumptions, at least you didn't call me/us Trump supporters. 55% all day every day as reported by 3 hygrometers. The heating (oil) (outside burner) runs for 2.5 hours a day, no stoves or open fires. Yes, all my children are Vaccinated, I'll just nip that one in the bud. I have been in an Aeroplane so I know the earth is round.

    You must be the 1 out of 10 so. It still shouldn't be advised, because the other 9 won't be as wise to it. There's a reason why it's in the regulations. Not everyone bothers to keep an eye on these things or check humidity, and a lot of people were brought up in leaky houses and don't really see a difference.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    listermint wrote: »
    You've brought me around with this one,

    It's totally amazing. The engineers and architects in Ireland have been doing it wrong all these years.

    Would you mind putting together a letter to the construction industry federation Ireland to tell them how vents are a con. They'd make a saving on the effort of leaving these slots open or core drilling. Win win all round

    They aren't a con, they need to be controllable, not a piece of cheap plastic stuck over a badly plastered wavin pipe, no core drilling in my house. When you shut a vent, it should be shut simple as that. I have closed mine permanently and used common sense to ventilate my home. People here need to realise the chasm that exists between the drawing board and the building site.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,385 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    CoBo55 wrote: »
    They aren't a con, they need to be controllable, not a piece of cheap plastic stuck over a badly plastered wavin pipe, no core drilling in my house. When you shut a vent, it should be shut simple as that. I have closed mine permanently and used common sense to ventilate my home. People here need to realise the chasm that exists between the drawing board and the building site.

    There's also a massive chasm between saying il do something and doing it. That's closing or opening windows. Humans are incredibly infallible which is why these are designed around them.

    Note you can buy vent covers that do all of what your saying and more hence the point of this thread and the legitimate options given to the OP.

    No one has yet to dispute that vents in many new builds are poorly implemented due to cost.

    But the simple fact is , they are needed.


    The home owner can improve on them . Of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Interesting question that.
    Were the other places you lived colder in winter?
    We have a relatively moderate climate here (i.e. it doesn't really get cold in winter like it would in central or eastern Europe) so the "efficiency" of our ventilation systems is significantly lower than colder regions. This then means that it is more difficult here to rid the moisture from houses.

    Well one of them was canada so pretty cold alright, but anyway stayed in lots of airbnbs and stuff in various countries and none of them that I recall seem to go in for the Irish "lets punch a hole in the wall" approach.
    I see one poster has put up about testing your humidity to keep it below 60% which is interesting to see a figure given.

    I am curious about the air flow requirements and so on in terms of actual figures, because we see people claiming that it will be a disaster of black mold if vents are blocked but not giving the figures and thats counter to my lived experience (which is that heating and using a small dehumidifier in certain areas is more important, having got black mold in very draughty places and none in less vented ones, I do genuinely leave windows open for hours a day though as not particularly cold sensitive)


  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭Iodine1


    listermint wrote: »

    Note you can buy vent covers that do all of what your saying and more hence the point of this thread and the legitimate options given to the OP.

    .

    Where can these alternatives be got? All I see in hardware stores are flimsy plastic which make no reduction in the gale blowing in on a windy night.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Iodine1 wrote: »
    Where can these alternatives be got? All I see in hardware stores are flimsy plastic which make no reduction in the gale blowing in on a windy night.

    Exactly. It'll probably be assumed we're too poor/stupid to buy them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Iodine1 wrote: »
    Where can these alternatives be got? All I see in hardware stores are flimsy plastic which make no reduction in the gale blowing in on a windy night.

    I fitted 3 of these, they do reduce the cross section of the vent, but do work quite well:-

    https://www.goodwins.ie/products/anti-draught-black-hole-ventilator-bm725-brown-outer-cowl.html?name=vent&type=simple

    They are quite easy to fit, you can just pack around them with insulation to seal around the outside.

    I'd rather fit something like this than block a vent altogether.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭PCros


    I fitted 3 of these, they do reduce the cross section of the vent, but do work quite well:-

    https://www.goodwins.ie/products/anti-draught-black-hole-ventilator-bm725-brown-outer-cowl.html?name=vent&type=simple

    They are quite easy to fit, you can just pack around them with insulation to seal around the outside.

    I'd rather fit something like this than block a vent altogether.

    If applicable to yourself did you notice any reduction in street noise?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭cletus


    I was looking at something like the link above, but the outside vent for my sitting room is one of those steel ones, and it's set into the stone work around the front of the house. Is there some sort of internal baffle system that works? I'd like to reduce both sound and breeze


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,352 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    PCros wrote: »
    If applicable to yourself did you notice any reduction in street noise?

    Yep it does cut it down a good bit, i'd notice the difference between the rooms that have them fitted and the ones that don't, in terms of noise.


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