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Pairc Ui Chaoimh re-development

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    Isn't that always the Achilles heal of the GAA, their unrelenting quest for money, money and yet more money.

    I'm guessing you have a massive problem with the GAA.

    Would you have the same problem if the FAI or IRFU were to plan to redevelop one of their grounds in Cork to 60,000?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    There is no need for a 60k capacity stadium in Cork, be it GAA, IRFU or FAI. It's way over capacity for 2 or 3 events a year


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭MunsterCycling


    I'm guessing you have a massive problem with the GAA.

    Would you have the same problem if the FAI or IRFU were to plan to redevelop one of their grounds in Cork to 60,000?

    No I have a problem with an organisation that has for years shown it is bigoted and discriminatory and has as their name suggests been out to grab what it can for themselves and only themselves.

    Allowing planning for a single discipline stadium is contrary to good planning and good sense, that goes for all sporting organisations but only the grab alls have this chip on their shoulder. :rolleyes:


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    In fairness to the GAA they do have a huge presence in almost every town, city and village in Ireland. The GAA without a doubt is of tremendous benefit to each and every local community in the country and kids from all over the World who live in Ireland are welcomed with open arms by their local GAA club to play Hurling & Football. 'tis hard to knock them really.

    (just to add I have never played with a club as I'm tremendously poor at sport but there was local clubs that my buddies played with who had no probs having really useless lads on the panels, they always got a bit of a game too, can they same be said about soccer ann rugby clubs ?)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    I would like to see a collaborative effort between GAA, IRFU, FAI & Cork City council to come up with a suitable facility that meets the needs of all organisations in a common municipal stadium.
    We have 3 poor facilities in Musgrave Park, Pairc Ui Chaoimh & Rurner's Cross. One decent facility could be developed for a common good without the need for any vested interest to go too deep into financial debt.

    I would not like to see the GAA lose out in any way if it was decided that the Pairc Ui Chaoimh venue was deemed the most suitable. In fact it could become a nice financial windfall fior them through some financial arrangement that the financially astute Frank & Peirce Murphy would no doubt
    be well capable of brokering the right deal for Cork GAA.
    To re-iterate I do not want to see any party lose out, I only want to see the best deal & outcome for the people of Cork. It is not best served by a GAA only 50k seater stadium. The good of Cork GAA is not best served by a 50 seater stadium. Talk to any inter-county player or club player & they will tell you that a stadium like that is not required.

    A more realistic joint use facility of 30-35k capacity is more than adequate. Better to spend the spare cash (left over from avoiding the 50k stadium) on even better ancillary facilities & support services for the new stadium.

    I am a GAA fan (H+F) & a rugby fan, not so much soccer, I still believe a joint effort s the way forward.

    Again to state I do not want to see the GAA lose out in any way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    No I have a problem with an organisation that has for years shown it is bigoted and discriminatory and has as their name suggests been out to grab what it can for themselves and only themselves.

    Ok the GAA have their flaws along with their positives.

    Name me one sporting organisation that is perfect?


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    The FAI :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,853 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    There is no need for a 60k capacity stadium in Cork, be it GAA, IRFU or FAI. It's way over capacity for 2 or 3 events a year

    A 60,000 seater stadium would allow it to host events that normally take place in Croke Park though wouldn't it? I always thought it was ridiculous having people driving all the way up to Dublin to see Cork vs Kerry or Cork vs Limerick play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭SomeFool


    Stark wrote: »
    A 60,000 seater stadium would allow it to host events that normally take place in Croke Park though wouldn't it? I always thought it was ridiculous having people driving all the way up to Dublin to see Cork vs Kerry or Cork vs Limerick play.

    Hard to see the All Ireland being moved from Croker though. I think a municipal stadium of 35k of so would be a fantastic asset to the people of Cork. Anything bigger would be a waste, imagine the GAA trying to fill 60,000 seats if the hurlers of footballers go through a couple of lean years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    This isn't a pro or anti GAA issue.

    It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.

    In this case the GAA spending £50m on a 60,000 all seater stadium and a centre of excellence on prime real estate in the city centre and in an area earmarked for development is a waste fora number of reasons that have been highlighted already.

    If anything the GAA should be pushing for the City Council to develop a stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and then keeping their money to put back into their organization at club level, underage etc.


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  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    This isn't a pro or anti GAA issue.

    It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.

    In this case the GAA spending £50m on a 60,000 all seater stadium and a centre of excellence on prime real estate in the city centre and in an area earmarked for development is a waste fora number of reasons that have been highlighted already.

    If anything the GAA should be pushing for the City Council to develop a stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and then keeping their money to put back into their organization at club level, underage etc.

    Its the GAA's land (or soon will be), its the GAA's money so really it should be whats in the GAA's best interests. I dont see any other organisation running around doing whats best for everyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Stark wrote: »
    A 60,000 seater stadium would allow it to host events that normally take place in Croke Park though wouldn't it? I always thought it was ridiculous having people driving all the way up to Dublin to see Cork vs Kerry or Cork vs Limerick play.

    The GAA won't move big all-ireland games out of croker to cork. They sell premium level tickets and corporate boxes in Dublin on the basis the big games will be in croker. 60k is way over capacity and big games won't be moved out of croker. It'll be a white elephant. €50m is only going to build a basic stadium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭Cape Clear


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    This isn't a pro or anti GAA issue.

    It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.

    In this case the GAA spending £50m on a 60,000 all seater stadium and a centre of excellence on prime real estate in the city centre and in an area earmarked for development is a waste fora number of reasons that have been highlighted already.

    If anything the GAA should be pushing for the City Council to develop a stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and then keeping their money to put back into their organization at club level, underage etc.

    Semi & all ireland finals will continue to be held in coke park as this is contracted under the corporate box scheme. The days of the GAA looking after the small man are long since gone and they should probably change their name to the SAA ie. screw all assocation. Of course this pairc Ui Caoimh development is the Ivory Tower pet project of Frank Murphy the same way the Bertie Bowl was for the langer from Drumcondra an ego trip of the heighest order.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    castie wrote: »
    Its the GAA's land (or soon will be), its the GAA's money so really it should be whats in the GAA's best interests. I dont see any other organisation running around doing whats best for everyone.

    i have no idea what you mean here??


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    It's about what's best for the city, county and people of Cork in terms of infrastructure and the most efficient use of resources.
    castie wrote: »
    Its the GAA's land (or soon will be), its the GAA's money so really it should be whats in the GAA's best interests. I dont see any other organisation running around doing whats best for everyone.
    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    i have no idea what you mean here??

    It's not rocket science :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    RoverJames wrote: »
    It's not rocket science :D

    Well rocket science is often much more straightforward than local politics... :rolleyes:

    I don't understand why this shouldn't be a discussion about what's best for everyone in Cork (including the GAA). Does the OP think that a 60k all seater stadium is in the best interests of GAA?? Or are they against telling the GAA what to do with their stadium??


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭murphym7


    50mil on a 60,000 capacity GAA stadium in Cork is a complete joke. A total waste of money. As has been previoulsy stated in this thread the atten at this years big games were very poor - and correct me if I'm wrong was it sunny for two of the days?

    We will never fill it for GAA - considering it would be allowed to be used for Soccer of Rugby is a bit of a crazy thought - that was a one time deal for a national stadium. The aggreement was never meant to cover regional or local grounds. In fact, can anyone give me an example of a rugby or soccer match played outside Croke park in the last 3 years?

    The redevelopment of Musgrave park is another mistake waiting to happen. I have been a munster fan all my life and go to the kip that is Musgarave park every time Munster play there. I also go up to Limerick 3/4 times a year when I can. It is a total pain in the ass to get there and back but we need to realise that redevloping another Munster rugby stadium - when the other is not payed for yet - will remove resources from building up and developing our young players. It also removes money from the clubs.

    I would support Modernising Musgrave park and the Pairc - but only to bring them into the 21st cen. Brush up on the old safety bits at the Pairc, maybe update the toilets - build a couple of bars. Just a bit of a revamp, clean the place up a bit. We have to realise that we are a small country - we would all love to have massive stadiums nearby where we can watch big matches but the reality is our national stadiums are located in Dublin (its where most people live by the way!) Its the same reason Pairc Ui Chaoimh is in the city and not in Baltimore.

    Just my 2 cents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    murphym7 wrote: »
    In fact, can anyone give me an example of a rugby or soccer match played outside Croke park in the last 3 years?

    Ireland have played rugby matches in Thomond Park, the RDS and i think Italy in Ravenhill in the last 3 years...although that game in Ravenhill could be a bit longer than 3 years ago.

    The soccer team has also played games in the RDS and Thomond Park in the last 3 years.

    That being said, the IRFU and the FAI won't be as eager to play games away from the new Lansdowne Road considering all that has been invested in the redevelopment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭murphym7


    Ireland have played rugby matches in Thomond Park, the RDS and i think Italy in Ravenhill in the last 3 years...although that game in Ravenhill could be a bit longer than 3 years ago.

    The soccer team has also played games in the RDS and Thomond Park in the last 3 years.

    That being said, the IRFU and the FAI won't be as eager to play games away from the new Lansdowne Road considering all that has been invested in the redevelopment.

    Maybe I should have been clearer - I meant GAA stadiums other than Croke park.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    I would like to see a collaborative effort between GAA, IRFU, FAI & Cork City council to come up with a suitable facility that meets the needs of all organisations in a common municipal stadium.
    We have 3 poor facilities in Musgrave Park, Pairc Ui Chaoimh & Rurner's Cross. One decent facility could be developed for a common good without the need for any vested interest to go too deep into financial debt.

    I would not like to see the GAA lose out in any way if it was decided that the Pairc Ui Chaoimh venue was deemed the most suitable. In fact it could become a nice financial windfall fior them through some financial arrangement that the financially astute Frank & Peirce Murphy would no doubt
    be well capable of brokering the right deal for Cork GAA.
    To re-iterate I do not want to see any party lose out, I only want to see the best deal & outcome for the people of Cork. It is not best served by a GAA only 50k seater stadium. The good of Cork GAA is not best served by a 50 seater stadium. Talk to any inter-county player or club player & they will tell you that a stadium like that is not required.

    A more realistic joint use facility of 30-35k capacity is more than adequate. Better to spend the spare cash (left over from avoiding the 50k stadium) on even better ancillary facilities & support services for the new stadium.

    I am a GAA fan (H+F) & a rugby fan, not so much soccer, I still believe a joint effort s the way forward.

    Again to state I do not want to see the GAA lose out in any way.

    A ray of common sense. Of course the GAA will get their way as they tend to always do in rural Ireland.
    Just weeks ago city councillors in Cork City ignored the advice of the city manager and city planners and voted to support GAA plans for an €40 million refurbishment of Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

    One councillor described the lobbying he experienced before that vote as "the most intense ever".
    http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/editorial/gormley-investigation--planning-inquiries-are-long-overdue-123090.html

    To hell with what might be good for the city of Cork, it's people and it's economy. And to hell with such trivial things as the City development plan, the GAA gets what it wants. Perhaps it's time we start evaluating the role of the GAA in public discourse the same way we look at FF or the Catholic church.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982



    http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/editorial/gormley-investigation--planning-inquiries-are-long-overdue-123090.html

    To hell with what might be good for the city of Cork, it's people and it's economy. And to hell with such trivial things as the City development plan, the GAA gets what it wants. Perhaps it's time we start evaluating the role of the GAA in public discourse the same way we look at FF or the Catholic church.

    What's the point in a well qualified and experienced City Manager and Planners offering advice?? They should be able to make a legally binding ruling on this!

    Does anyone know what councillors supported it and their reasons?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭Cape Clear


    BUNK1982 wrote: »
    What's the point in a well qualified and experienced City Manager and Planners offering advice?? They should be able to make a legally binding ruling on this!

    Does anyone know what councillors supported it and their reasons?

    Did any councillors abstane from this vote? On the grounds that there was a conflict of interest on the issue I can think of 6 councillors off hand that have strong links with the GAA either directly with the county board or with clubs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭BUNK1982


    Just read a piece about this in today's (Friday) Examiner.

    17 City Councillors ignored the recommendation of the City Manager and Planners. Councillor Chris O' Leary is due to raise it in a meeting on Monday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Recent update on the Pairc redevelopment. Click

    Planning application will be submitted in early 2012. About time too. I was down there for the county hurling final a few weeks ago and the place is on the verge of falling down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    If the Cork County Board was controlled by future/forward thinking people with a bit of vision,instead of a heap of dinosaurs,they would be building a municipal stadium like the recently finished Juventus Stadium.A beautiful stadium,built very cheap for €120 million.(Aviva Stadium was €410 million)
    Capacity of 41,000 which would be perfect.

    If they have €50 million now to do a half hearted job,for €70 million more I believe you could not get better.

    To generate funds to pay it off,they would hold a few big concerts there every year.In the stadium they would include a museum,shopping mall corporate boxes,bars and restaurants for extra funding like they have in the Juventus Stadium.

    They would also try and coax the IRFU and FAI to hold at least one match at the Stadium every year.It should not be that hard to fill considering the population of County Cork is now 520,000

    With €70 million extra needed,say over a ten year period,im sure it would not be that hard to raise €7 million per year.

    With the County board,will the end product look like faulty towers?

    P.S Having the training pitch next to the stadium is a complete joke.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_Stadium

    280px-Juventus_Stadium_%28ingresso_C%29.jpg

    Cattura24.jpg
    juventus-new-stadium2.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    If the Cork County Board was controlled by future/forward thinking people with a bit of vision,instead of a heap of dinosaurs,they would be building a municipal stadium like the recently finished Juventus Stadium.A beautiful stadium,built very cheap for €120 million.(Aviva Stadium was €410 million)
    Capacity of 41,000 which would be perfect.

    If they have €50 million now to do a half hearted job,for €70 million more I believe you could not get better.

    To generate funds to pay it off,they would hold a few big concerts there every year.In the stadium they would include a museum,shopping mall corporate boxes,bars and restaurants for extra funding like they have in the Juventus Stadium.

    They would also try and coax the IRFU and FAI to hold at least one match at the Stadium every year.It should not be that hard to fill considering the population of County Cork is now 520,000

    With €70 million extra needed,say over a ten year period,im sure it would not be that hard to raise €7 million per year.

    With the County board,will the end product look like faulty towers?

    P.S Having the training pitch next to the stadium is a complete joke.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_Stadium

    280px-Juventus_Stadium_%28ingresso_C%29.jpg

    Cattura24.jpg
    juventus-new-stadium2.jpg

    The GAA own the stadium so unless the FAI / IRFU are going to stump up alot of cash to build it, then you can forget about it being multi-use. The FAI and IRFU also have the Aviva Stadium to pay for and they have sold 10 year premium seats in the Aviva on the promise that all internationals would be played there. Added to that you have one of the most conservative County Boards in the Country in Cork. They would rather level the place than let soccer or rugby in there. It's a non-starter to be honest.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    Considering that only 7,027 attended the County Final yesterday it's handy for them that the taxpayer will be subsidising Frank's Dreams of Grandeur.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭CHealy


    Im no GAA man, but been curious I asked my Dad who was playing. The first team I cant remember cause I had never heard of it, Cross - sumthing or other, and then UCC. If this had been Nemo vs some big team from the West Cork region, a much much bigger attendance would have been there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    CHealy wrote: »
    Im no GAA man, but been curious I asked my Dad who was playing. The first team I cant remember cause I had never heard of it, Cross - sumthing or other, and then UCC. If this had been Nemo vs some big team from the West Cork region, a much much bigger attendance would have been there.

    You mean like Castlehaven? Because that's who was playing. Anyone with even a very passing interest in Cork GAA would know who Castlehaven are.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    CHealy wrote: »
    Im no GAA man, but been curious I asked my Dad who was playing. The first team I cant remember cause I had never heard of it, Cross - sumthing or other, and then UCC. If this had been Nemo vs some big team from the West Cork region, a much much bigger attendance would have been there.
    You dont really know much about football. Castlehaven had 95% of the support for the senior final. There was as many UCC on the panel and selectors as UCC supporters. And to inform you of Nemo, they have a great team but don't have a great following (small numbers).
    When Castlehaven played O'Donovan Rossa in the '94 county final, 25,000 turned up..... a multiple of both parishes combimed. So you cant say Castlehaven aren't a big team (or O'Donovan Rossa either)
    And not to forget Newmarket and Clyda, they had substantial numbers of supporters too.


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