Exit poll: The post referendum thread. No electioneering.

spookwoman wrote: »

Do you think this is acceptable instead?
"In 2014 it was revealed in a report compiled by Michael Dwyer of Cork University’s School of History 2,051 children from state-run homes were used as medical guinea pigs for the pharma giant Burroughs Wellcome during the 1930s. "
or this
"Before Dwyer’s 2012 report, a damning report by the Irish government’s Health Service Executive (HSE) found that the Irish Catholic mother and child homes had an infant mortality rate of 68% in 1943. The report shows that, according to the Register of Deaths, Bessborough Mother and Baby home during certain months in the 1940s the death rate among children living in the home amounted to a child dying roughly every second day."
or this
"More than 80 of the 472 infant deaths have malnutrition listed as the cause of death."

neither those or abortion on demand are acceptable to me. i don't see what the wrongs caried out by the catholic church, horific as they are, have to do with this specific debate at all. repealing the 8th and abortion on demand don't right those wrongs.

Phoebas wrote: »

During the campaign the No side chose Iona institute people to represent them in various of the debates, so it's not so easy to disown them now.

If you don't want to be associated with the KKK, don't put the KKK forward to represent you on Prime Time.

agreed, however it wasn't the ordinary no voters who nominateed them. so we aren't associated with them in any way.

end of the road wrote: »

agreed, however it wasn't the ordinary no voters who nominateed them. so we aren't associated with them in any way.

I don't understand why some No voters are trying to disassociate themselves with the Iona institute (even to the extent of introducing KKK comparisons).

Some of the Iona Institute representatives were the No campaign's most effective advocates.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

No side does not equal Iona Institute. Its the equivalent of saying white america equals KKK or something like that. Its really not that difficult.

I think the majority of people who read my post wouldn't have found it that difficult to understand that my point had nothing to do per se with IONA. She was on the NO side whether she is a member of IONA or not.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

No sorry. Nice try.
The No side were a wide array of groups and people that included people with religious affiliation and none as well as including trade unionists, doctors and lawyers. Iona were a small part which broadcasters chose for some debates. But others such as Toibin, Ganley, Lowe as well as doctors and lawyers played a part.
To reduce the No side to being Iona in the main does not help your argument. Most people see through it right away.
As end of the road rightly said, ordinary No voters had no input into who represented them.

Do you have any links to large groups of No Voters being disgruntled about who was being selected for the debates at the time?
If there were ~5K of ye on a facebook group somewhere saying 'why are Mullen/Steyn/Sherlock being selected again when there's lots of able trade-unionists, doctors and lawyers who could debate instead?' then I'd have sympathy for your point. If not then it looks like post result bolloxology. From what I can see RTE/TV3 consistently picked your most dedicated committed and articulate people.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

IONA are a miniscule "institute" who are given disproportionate airtime. I think everyone on all sides can agree on that.
You will have to ask RTE and TV3 why they are given that airtime as they call the shots. My guess is they make for a soft and easy target, pantomine villains if you will.

OK, I'll repeat the question.

Do you have anything to show that at the time of the debates there were a large grouping of followers on the No side who believed it should be someone other than Mullen/Steyn/Sherlock/Ascough involved in the RTE/TV3 debates.
Because as an avid reader of loveboth and savethe8th pages I don't recall any complaints about who was being selected. So its a bit bizarre to be blaming TV3/RTE for who they selected unless you can show there was a groundswell for a different angle at the time.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Fair enough if you think that way. The danger inevitably is abortion becomes cheap and easy and many will use it as a form of birth control. Get pregnant and then have an abortion.
Already an abortion culture seems to be becoming the norm in Ireland.
The cheering post referendum was truly sickening. People were celebrating as if abortion was the best thing ever to happen this country. And going on what some yes siders have posted on here I am beginning to believe that is the general attitude on the yes side.
If anything demanded sensitivity this was it. But no it was treated as if Ireland won the soccer world cup.

Yes because people were cheering for abortions no other reason to cheer at all.
Or if abortion is cheap it means that it is available to all women regardless of their level of income.
Need to start looking at the bigger picture, not just whatever negatives you can imagine regardless of the probabilities of such negatives happening.

spookwoman wrote: »

Do you think this is acceptable instead?
"In 2014 it was revealed in a report compiled by Michael Dwyer of Cork University’s School of History 2,051 children from state-run homes were used as medical guinea pigs for the pharma giant Burroughs Wellcome during the 1930s. "
or this
"Before Dwyer’s 2012 report, a damning report by the Irish government’s Health Service Executive (HSE) found that the Irish Catholic mother and child homes had an infant mortality rate of 68% in 1943. The report shows that, according to the Register of Deaths, Bessborough Mother and Baby home during certain months in the 1940s the death rate among children living in the home amounted to a child dying roughly every second day."
or this
"More than 80 of the 472 infant deaths have malnutrition listed as the cause of death."

On this post my mother who is 82 years of age had an older sister raped at 15 and sent to a home in Tipperary to have her child who supposedly died and she herself died of broken heart and how the family found out the truth was by a cousin in Australia researching into it got clear facts compared to his brother in Ireland trying to get the facts and it was a cover up job in Ireland. My mother went to-visit her sisters grave in roscrea last year and was heart broken over the only memory she has of her sister is being taken away with her suit case and she could do nothing about it as a 12year old and was never told anything more about her sister and is marked on the family headstone that she is buried their and the fact is she is not. My mother voted yes as she stated for her grand daughters and her Great grand daughters could have their own say as to what happens to them, as she says freedom of choice not like her 14 year old sister who had no say and my mother is a devot Catholic to this day and not for a Bishop to come out and say she has to go to confession.
The constant posters on the no side on here who do not agree with democrats of this country who have voted in numbers to vote repeal, I say please think of all the lives that has being ruined over the years and the sad souls who have had the rights taken away by church and the 8th and the no side who think abortion is going to wholesale with repeal please given women respect and compassion as no women enters into abortion lightly and have had to carry the guilt so hard in life, and one thing that has annoyed me so much is the talk about miscarriage by the no side and how they do not understand how it effects daily life so much and in our case 14 years later it is still so raw and never goes away.
At this stage I would say to the couple of posters fighting for the no side on here please think of all the people on here who you are upsetting with your constant argument of how wrong the yes side is and think of moving on and Ireland has voted and anybody that didn’t vote that is also their right but Ireland voted yes and get over it.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The cheering post referendum was truly sickening. People were celebrating as if abortion was the best thing ever to happen this country. And going on what some yes siders have posted on here I am beginning to believe that is the general attitude on the yes side.
If anything demanded sensitivity this was it. But no it was treated as if Ireland won the soccer world cup.

I have never seen a referendum or election result that wasn't met with some kind of visible celebration. Of course the celebration was because they won, who likes loosing?

Having said that, I don't quite understand why that event in central Dublin took place at all when the politicians were saying that they didn't want a celebratory feel to the occasion. Who's idea was this anyway? If it were down to me there would have been no such event at all not least because it has given ppl like you free rein to make OTT comments like this:

But no it was treated as if Ireland won the soccer world cup.

:rolleyes:

Bolding only to answer the statements not shouting

end of the road wrote: »

.......

are you and the others complaining about what all no voters don't do marching about the babies, about paedophile priests and attacks on children or the laundries and forced adoptions? or the 9 women who are going to the uk each day? or is it only the no side who should march about those issues? sadly, most people don't all have the time to be marching about things. we have work, lives and so on that don't leave us with much free time to march in relation to issues we care about, as much as we would like to be able to protest.

But you aren't protesting though. Show me where IONA and the rest of that ilk are out complaining about paedophile priests, nuns and illegal adoptions, forced unpaid labour in Magdalene laundaries. Screaming "baby murderers" and spitting in the face of people handing out leaflets for the Yes side is about all you lot are able for. We are all busy, have busy lives, but show me where any No sider supported Amnesty Ireland in their fight for society freedoms which State/Religious collusion tries to inhibit.

you and a few others throughout this thread complain about how everyone who doesn't share your view on abortion doesn't care about this and that but in reality, you know nothing about what others do and don't care about. you don't have the monopoly on caring.

I never mentioned abortion in my post. I spoke about the No side choosing to hone in on the 8th and babies in vitro but not being so bothered about the other children the religious have abused and abandoned. But you clearly don't care because a compassionate caring person doesn't say "not in my back yard" - and lets vulnerable women travel to the UK for medical care that should have been available here.

you yourself also complain about your reproductive organs being controled, in my opinion it's just not true. or if it is, it was not at the hands of the 8th or government.
Thats a nonsense and there are plenty of better educated people than me to confirm that if you want to look - but you don't. Bury your head in the sand but the medical treatment for Savita and Miss P was totally compromised by the 8th - that's why Miss P's family had to go to the High Court so they could bury her. Where's the compassion for her or her family.

i don't know about other no voters, but i am not looking for compassion. i voted the way i believe is right and i stand by it 100% . that's all that matters to me, if others have a problem with it it's on them, not me. i will never ever apologize for doing what i believe is right.

Voters weren't looking for compassion, we were showing it to others. I've never had to go to the UK for an abortion and hopefully none of my family will but I have compassion for the women that do and I care for their medical welfare. You have no empathy for the women that have to travel.