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BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭jd


    Asked the Nta about the e spines, reply was that they are now scheduled for Spring 24, also that they are now in discussions with Northwood Management re provision of bus stands within the estate ( presumably for e1 terminus)



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    The Road Traffic & Roads Bill 2021 should be signed into law next week. This will enable the last three Core Bus Corridors to be submitted to ABP. One planning application per week starting next week.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Why did these corridors have to wait until this came into effect? I'm sure that I know the answer, but can't remember at all, it's been so long.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The bridge to Ringsend probably makes a specific provision for camera enforcement of the bus only rule. The new act allows for camera enforcement. Not sure why the other 2 corridors had to be delayed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    Capacity on the Cspine is totally inadequate on a Saturday. Every 30 minutes per route just doesn't cut it! There's a reason the 25a was increased to every 20 minutes on Saturdays before Bus Connects. Inbound C1 jammed with people standing up the stairs this evening, not taking anyone else from Penny Hill onwards. Over 20 people standing at Woodies. It's the same every week. Outbound C4 not stopping in Lucan this evening either, full to the brim.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    New C route could help on this to Adamstown Station via Lucan Village, Dodsborough and then straight ahead. This would allow taking either C3 or C4 off Lucan Village.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    End to end time, the c4 would benefit most from skipping Lucan village



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    I tried to get from Lucan to Celbridge this evening. I l got to Woodies on a jammed C1 and no luck getting on a C4 to Celbridge. L54 cancelled so got the so couldn't go via Riverforest. Squeezed on a C3 to try pick up the L59 in Leixlip. L59 cancelled, so ended up going all the way to Maynooth to come back to Celbridge. Just under 3 hours it took. Totally unaccceptable. Inbound stops with 20-30 people waiting at Woodies and Lucan village.

    A new C route from Dodsboro is needed and yes, it would be great if C3 and C4 skipped Lucan village, but there is a serious capacity issue on the C spine generally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    I have big doubt about any changes. The NTA are too arrogant and ignorant. Dodsborough residents already said the bus to town is needed throughout the consultations. If Dodsborough is a no to the NTA, then a bus from somewhere else, example, Leixlip. Oh, wait, the NTA objected to that too... Then another solution is not to create any new C route, but to increase a frequency for existing ones. But the NTA are too slow to address the problems timely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    Then again, I doubt the NTA would have the resources right now to, for example, increase the C Spine’s combined frequency to every 5 mins on weekends, given the ongoing driver shortages. Still doesn’t excuse the frankly pitiful service they gave you, but just to note that there are no easy fixes they can attempt right now



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    There should an easy fix. They have created this problem themselves. Ex 25a & 25b were more frequent on Sat than just 30 min. This puts more pressure on the C3 & C4. The whole corridor wasn't estimated right. If they created the problem they should rectify it as a priority now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭Polar101



    I agree completely, but is it not fairly similar on many other "spines" as well, with all the cancellations? C-spine is really bad though, I've had similar experiences in Lucan on Saturdays. At the moment I find public transport (mainly buses) to be very unreliable, particularly on weekends.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    More anti social behaviour this time in Bray. A bus driver defends himself from a pack of scumbags who try to attack. No doubt the driver will be the one to get the sack whilst the animals get off scot free.

    https://twitter.com/VideosIrish/status/1670380789278601216?t=x_adDXBnHkNuq37nkwaVPw&s=19



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,284 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    That is disgraceful behaviour from those teenagers. I hope Go Ahead and the Gardaí take action on these little scumbags as this video is up on social media.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    This driver could be a much better Gardai then any of those we have now - proactive and keen to solve the problems, just need a bit of training.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭TheChrisD


    Two options they could consider then:

    • Increase current frequency from every 30 minutes to every 20 minutes.
    • A small restructuring of the Spine: C1/C2/C4 remain every 30 minutes; C3 becomes every 15 minutes; adjust 52 into another C-spine route every 30 minutes to combine with the C4, run through Lucan.

    Of course, this all depends on them getting the manpower and fleet...

    Maybe the simple solution is to route the C4 through Dodsborough, and then along the Shackleton link road (if that's even open?)



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    The C4 already being a very long route absolutely should not be considered for extension of any kind!

    Can I ask why you think the C3 should be considered for increased frequency over the others? I'm always baffled by how Leixlip is prioritised in everything - given Celbridge has the largest population of the three North Kildare towns (and growing very quickly with many large new developments), and Maynooth and Leixlip are already much better served by rail to the city, and Leixlip already has the additional city bound 52.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    Your ideas are nice, but don't solve the problem with C1&C2 capacity. First of all, I'm not a fan that either of those two weren't diverted from Griffeen left onto the Ballyowen Road and straight to Lucan Woodies. Preferably, C1 could have done that.

    C3 via Dodsborough is a bit of a stretch - at least extra 5 min would be added, and it's already a long route which does too much.

    I'd have focused to bringing C3 closer to the residents in Celbridge itself diverting via Clane Road, Shackleton Road and then just at Tesco/Lidl turn left onto Maynooth Road. I don't like idea of C3 being so far from the residential estates in Celbridge, also serving Lucan Village, then going to Maynooth and now even a Dodsborough idea - all of this could be a very nice L route, but not a spine to town, please! Spines should be as direct as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Citrus_8


    You have a very good point. I just think that Celbridge is more passive while Leixlip has more working places, Intel alone generates a big PT demand, not even mentioning Maynooth university. So the number of population is just a one side of the coin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Buffman


    My 2c on the new W's is that the W6 should not have been split.

    "The plan is to join routes W61 and W62 as soon as road network improvements are available in the Hazelhatch area."

    They need to forget about the idea of magically making the 250 year old single track humpback Hazelhatch bridge suitable for low floor busses anytime soon. Any work there would cost millions and take a very long time if even possible at that site with the lack of space there.

    A more realistic route would be from Newcastle-Peamount-12th Lock-Adamstown-Backweston-Celbridge on. But since the new Backweston-Adamstown link road doesn't appear on any of the TFI/NTA maps of the new routes, I guess they're unaware of it's existence.

    As it stands the W61 is a pretty pointless bus route, with the exception of the new Maynooth Moyglare section, it's serving areas already covered by the C4 and L59, and while the extra Celbridge-Maynooth capacity is welcome, I hope they have looked at the timetables to ensure that C4s and W61s don't end up following each other around in pairs.

    I'd imagine the W62 and W4 should fair a bit better. I hope they won't suffer from any of the anti-social behavior that caused DB to suspend routes in certain areas of Tallaght earlier in the year that they will also be traveling through.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Road markings were done today in Maynooth for the stops and I spotted more buses on familiarisation runs at the weekend too. I hear what you're saying re using the new link road but that would add significantly to the route length and journey time. I don't know why they don't consider moving the lights to make a longer one way stretch and or maybe add a passing bay both could be done relatively quickly and cheaply solving the issue of two busses meeting at that spot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Reversal


    Using the cellbridge link road would add about 15 mins end to end time to the W6 compared to the Hazelhatch routing. Which seems worth it when you look at all the additional connectivity it would provide, and the fact that's it's actually possible unlike Hazelhatch.

    The unwillingness for any flexibility in the implementation of the W6, opting instead to just abandon its original goals is really worrying when you consider the mountain there is to climb in developing public transport in the coming years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The W61 will provide a regular direct link between Hazelhatch Station and Maynooth University - I think that’s a worthwhile connection.

    As for taking longer alternative routes, bear in mind that even adding five minutes to journey time on a leg could mean that you’d need an additional bus to operate the same frequency on a route. It may eat into driver hours too.

    My understanding was that the issue was the approaches to the bridge rather than the bridge itself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    If would even more useful if it provided a regular direct link from Adamstown Station to Maynooth. It would improve access to the university for a massive young population on that side of Lucan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Reversal


    But again, surely our level ambition here is great enough to not be put off by requiring a singular additional bus. Hardly seems proportionate to pack it in because of that, or because someone might complain... etc etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Can they not take the train from Adamstown to Hazelhatch and then the W61 for €2? This bus will facilitate students coming from either direction along the rail line to Hazelhatch,

    As I said, you have to look at the effect of any different routing on the PVR (Peak Vehicle Requirement) and driver resourcing. It’s not as simple as just saying change the routing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    How frequent are trains from Adamstown to Hazelhatch? To be in for a 9am lecture they would gave just two options, 6.51 and 7.41. Not great. And connecting to C routes to Maynooth is a far longer journey from Adamstown than Hazelhatch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    This is an investment in the future.

    Rail frequency is only going to increase. You can’t just base everything on the status quo.

    The new bus network is being designed with the future DART services in mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Fizzy Duck


    When the buses go more than -6 minutes behind schedule. I believe they go to "scheduled" then. It would seem to be common enough on the 16 from my experience as a passenger and driver.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Arguable that connection is already well covered by the L58/L59/C4 combo, connecting to different busses is what BusConnects is all about we're told. Although the fact that the L58/59 timetable seems to have been designed to miss every train connection possible is another debate. We can't comment on the W61s train connections as with 5 days to go before launch there's no published timetable.

    In it's current form I think the W61 is a waste of scarce resourses which could be better used on a virgin route that currently has nothing such as the new section of Adamstown on the Backweston side that isn't served by any service as per my W6 route suggestion above. A similar argument could also be made to change the L58 from Hazelhatch Station to Adamstown Station as it's loading is non-existent in Celbridge and it's current route would still be served by a C4/L59 combo if they kept the L59 on it's current route diversion.

    I do get the point about future rail expansion, but running empty busses between train stations in advance of those improved services while people are not being served by any service at all or are being left behind on other busy C routes is not a good use of available resources.

    IMO Hazelhatch bridge is a wholly unsuitable location for a scheduled low floor double-decker route with dozens of busses per day and how it even got as far as planning is strange. I'm not entirely convinced a 10.5m long x 2.55m wide Volvo B5TL would safely even fit over it.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.



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