Amazon Prime Day 2021 - Monday 21st & Tuesday 22nd June

Soarer · 22-06-2021 12:42pm

TheDriver wrote: »

Get this whopper from Chat:

The price that is being paid is a discounted price from Amazon because of the prime day sale, however the Import fee would always be charged on the Original price of the item.

So VAT is charged on a price you don't pay, surely that is illegal. But now the CS assistant has said it!

Original price : £1000
Prime Price : £10
Import Fee : £200

Square that circle, Mr. Customer Support.

TheDriver · 22-06-2021 12:46pm

Soarer wrote: »

Original price : £1000
Prime Price : £10
Import Fee : £200

Square that circle, Mr. Customer Support.

I wrote to complaints about their policy as quoted by their agent. Lets see how a quote in lights goes down with them? Surely it's illegal to collect duty on a price not paid?

extrafluff · 22-06-2021 12:46pm

TheDriver wrote: »

Get this whopper from Chat:

The price that is being paid is a discounted price from Amazon because of the prime day sale, however the Import fee would always be charged on the Original price of the item.

So VAT is charged on a price you don't pay, surely that is illegal. But now the CS assistant has said it!

Christ.

Kimbot · 22-06-2021 12:48pm

TheDriver wrote: »

I wrote to complaints about their policy as quoted by their agent. Lets see how a quote in lights goes down with them? Surely it's illegal to collect duty on a price not paid?

I had the same from 2 different reps yesterday and when I pointed out how wrong they were they disconnected from the chat.

dam099 · 22-06-2021 12:53pm

Kimbot wrote: »

I had the same from 2 different reps yesterday and when I pointed out how wrong they were they disconnected from the chat.

They seem to do that if they don't know the correct answer or the issue is complex. A while back I went through 3 agents in sequence on a chat all of whom made a "final" (incorrect in my view) statement and then just disconnected. I was challenging the non removal of UK VAT on an item and none of them go it.

Ironically the VAT was refunded automatically a few months later so seems I was right.

POBox19 · 22-06-2021 12:56pm

TheDriver wrote: »

Get this whopper from Chat:

The price that is being paid is a discounted price from Amazon because of the prime day sale, however the Import fee would always be charged on the Original price of the item.
So VAT is charged on a price you don't pay, surely that is illegal. But now the CS assistant has said it!

Sad, but typical of Amazon UK people not to understand that VAT is applied on the net price after taking discounts into consideration. In the example above the discount of £30 includes 20% vat! The correct answer is £92.25.
What they are doing is creating an 'Irish' retail price from which they take the discount.
All they actually need to do is to add 2.5% to the offer to arrive at a price including 23% vat. If you could get that into their skulls you'd be a genius.

grogi · 22-06-2021 1:06pm

POBox19 wrote: »

Sad, but typical of Amazon UK people not to understand that VAT is applied on the net price after taking discounts into consideration. In the example above the discount of £30 includes 20% vat! The correct answer is £92.25.
What they are doing is creating an 'Irish' retail price from which they take the discount.
All they actually need to do is to add 2.5% to the offer to arrive at a price including 23% vat. If you could get that into their skulls you'd be a genius.

The retail price calculations are simple at the surface, yet their systems must account for many different scenarios, rates etc. It ends up being pretty complex and there will be errors. Especially now with Brexit and extra complexities introduced by it.

However, in the end the amount Amazon pays to the Irish Revenue will be calculated correctly and will be based on the price the customer pays. So regardless of what the website says and what price breakdown it shows you, Revenue will get the 18.7% (for items with 23% VAT) out of each transaction you pay that is over the threshold. There is no other way around that.

If Amazon charges us more that the 2.5% over UK customers, that's not going to the Irish revenue. Only 18.7% of it is going to the Revenue, rest is going to Amazon's pocket. If Amazon gives less of discount - the difference is going to Amazon's pocket. Etc.

eclipsechaser · 22-06-2021 1:08pm

Th3B1tcH · 22-06-2021 1:30pm

xtal191 wrote: »

Is there any way to get a lightning deal back after you've clicked claim and time runs out in your basket?

Add a "2nd person" u can have more then 1 adult on the account then use it to order :cool:

DevFirst · 22-06-2021 1:37pm

So, SOME discounts are fixed, while others are not, from my testing here are the main categories I've found:

1. Items where the Non-Deal Price & Prime Exclusive Deal Price are UNDER the €22 VAT threshold:

Example:
£16.00 (Non-Deal Price)
£8.00 (Prime Exclusive Deal Price, 50% off)

VAT: CORRECT (20% UK VAT is being removed and it correctly adds 0.00 "Import Fee Deposit", so you pay no VAT)
Discount: WRONG (still being calculated wrong at checkout, as it was yesterday, so we're getting less of a discount than UK)
Conclusion: STILL BROKEN

2. Items where the Non-Deal Price is OVER the €22 VAT threshold BUT the Prime Exclusive Deal Price is UNDER the €22 VAT threshold:

Example:
£24.00 (Non-Deal Price) this is over the €22/£18.82-ish VAT threshold
£12.00 (Prime Exclusive Deal Price, 50% off) this is under the €22/£18.82-ish VAT threshold

VAT: WRONG (20% UK VAT is being removed and 23% VAT is being added as "Import Fee Deposit" on the £24 because it is over the €22/£18.82-ish VAT threshold, but there should be no VAT as the actual price you pay, £12, is under the threshold. They're charging you 23% VAT on money you're not paying them)
Discount: CORRECT (the correct discount seems to be being applied now, however the VAT issue above is happening)
Conclusion: MIXED(discount calculation seems to be fixed but 23% VAT is being charged when it may not meant to be)

3. Items where the Non-Deal Price & Prime Exclusive Deal Price are OVER the €22 VAT threshold:

Example:
£100.00 (Non-Deal Price)
£50.00 (Prime Exclusive Deal Price, 50% off)

VAT: CORRECT (20% UK VAT is being removed and 23% Irish VAT is being applied under "Import Fee Deposit")
Discount: CORRECT (the correct £50.00 discount is being applied at checkout usually within a margin of 1p, so a £49.99 discount appears at checkout)
Conclusion: EDIT: ONLY FIXED ON SOME (I tested more products, only some are fixed, while others are STILL not giving the correct discount, please double check the "Promotion Applied" amount at checkout and compare it to the discount listed on the product's page)

4. All items where the discount is 17%-ish or below (regardless of price or €22 VAT threshold):

Example:
£1000.00 (Non-Deal Price)
£900.00 (Prime Exclusive Deal Price, 10% off)

VAT: CORRECT (20% UK VAT is being removed and 23% Irish VAT is being applied under "Import Fee Deposit")
Discount: WRONG (checkout will display full price £1000 with no discount mentioned, it seems if the discount is 17% or under checkout will ignore any discount and instead simply charge you the FULL non deal price)
Conclusion: STILL BROKEN

As you can see it's a real ****show, your average customer ain't gonna be able to track all these convoluted rules to know if they're owed money back from this ordeal.

pc7 · 22-06-2021 1:39pm

They have to be loosing money this prime day, I've bought nothing for first time I can think of! I'd my eye on a few things but its so messy didn't pull the trigger.

Toast · 22-06-2021 1:45pm

DevFirst wrote: »

3. Items where the Non-Deal Price & Prime Exclusive Deal Price are OVER the €22 VAT threshold:
Example:
£100.00 (Non-Deal Price)
£50.00 (Prime Exclusive Deal Price, 50% off)

VAT: CORRECT (20% UK VAT is being removed and 23% Irish VAT is being applied under "Import Fee Deposit")
Discount: CORRECT (the correct £50.00 discount is being applied at checkout usually within a margin of 1p, so a £49.99 discount appears at checkout)
Conclusion: FIXED (but be sure to double check at checkout)

Thanks for all the hard work but is this not an example of this being broken?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089F7FZKD/

Adding them the price goes to 30ish GBPs.. I'd expect the price to be a quid more because of VAT differences (or is this one of those edge cases were there is no vat on shoes in the UK but there is here?)

OhHiMark · 22-06-2021 1:48pm

pc7 wrote: »

They have to be loosing money this prime day, I've bought nothing for first time I can think of! I'd my eye on a few things but its so messy didn't pull the trigger.

Any money they miss out on due to this will be barely even an accounting error to them.

feelings · 22-06-2021 1:59pm

Their CS interpretation of the import threshold is all over the place.
a) No question, I will get a refund of the import fees as soon as the items arrives - contact CS once it arrives and you'll get a refund
b) You will only get a refund once Amazon receives a VAT/Customs invoice and the value is below the threshold (???)
c) You are not due a refund as the original price is over the threshold

Mixed bag and I've order a fair bit in the last 24 hours. Sigh.

Caranica · 22-06-2021 2:10pm

Toast wrote: »

Thanks for all the hard work but is this not an example of this being broken?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089F7FZKD/

Adding them the price goes to 30ish GBPs.. I'd expect the price to be a quid more because of VAT differences (or is this one of those edge cases were there is no vat on shoes in the UK but there is here?)

I had a similar issue with a steam mop earlier. Both prices attract VAT but UK VAT was not removed

db · 22-06-2021 2:18pm

I bought a Kindle and cover yesterday. I went back to check again today and I found that the price at checkout was about £12. Checking the calculations, the promotion applied today was £19.99 and yesterday it was £8.33.

I got on to customer service and explained they error to them. I will be getting a refund after the items have been delivered.

hots · 22-06-2021 2:21pm

dan786 wrote: »

Does not matter when they ship as they look at the order date.

You need them to arrive to process the cashback though and you need to do the paperwork within 60 days of purchase. Should be fine unless Amazon really make a balls of it.

DevFirst · 22-06-2021 2:35pm

Toast wrote: »

Thanks for all the hard work but is this not an example of this being broken?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B089F7FZKD/

Adding them the price goes to 30ish GBPs.. I'd expect the price to be a quid more because of VAT differences (or is this one of those edge cases were there is no vat on shoes in the UK but there is here?)

Okay so here's what's going on with that example:

They're not removing the 20% UK VAT at all, they're leaving the UK VAT on and simply adding 23% Irish VAT on top.

Here's how it appears at checkout currently:

[b]Order Summary[/b]
Items:                 GBP 24.79 [i](they are not removing 20% UK VAT here)[/i]
Postage and Packaging: GBP  0.00
Import Fees Deposit:   GBP  5.70 [i](23% Irish VAT of 24.79)[/i]
Order Total:           GBP 30.49

And here's what it should be:

[b]Order Summary[/b]
Items:                 GBP 20.66 [i](24.79 divided by 1.2 gives you price without 20% UK vat)[/i]
Postage and Packaging: GBP  0.00 [i][/i]
Import Fees Deposit:   GBP  4.75 [i](and this is 23% Irish VAT of 20.66)[/i]
Order Total:           GBP 25.41 [i](this should be the correct total)[/i]

If you look on the product page, you'll see "Sold by STQ Global shop and Fulfilled by Amazon", so it's a third party seller you're buying from in this case, and what I've noticed is a lot of third party sellers fail to remove the 20% UK VAT, and just add on 23% Irish VAT.

I don't know why many third party sellers do this, maybe it's cause they haven't set their selling options up correctly? But if you buy from Amazon UK/EU Sarl directly they always take off 20% UK VAT first and then add on 23% Irish VAT, which is the way you're supposed to do it when selling items from the UK to Irish customers.

glic83 · 22-06-2021 2:39pm

DevFirst wrote: »
Okay so here's what's going on with that example:

They're not removing the 20% UK VAT at all, they're leaving the UK VAT on and simply adding 23% Irish VAT on top.

Here's how it appears at checkout currently:
[b]Order Summary[/b]
Items:                 GBP 24.79 [i](they are not removing 20% UK VAT here)[/i]
Postage and Packaging: GBP  0.00
Import Fees Deposit:   GBP  5.70 [i](23% Irish VAT of 24.79)[/i]
Order Total:           GBP 30.49
And here's what it should be:
[b]Order Summary[/b]
Items:                 GBP 20.66 [i](24.79 divided by 1.2 gives you price without 20% UK vat)[/i]
Postage and Packaging: GBP  0.00 [i][/i]
Import Fees Deposit:   GBP  4.75 [i](and this is 23% Irish VAT of 20.66)[/i]
Order Total:           GBP 25.41 [i](this should be the correct total)[/i]
If you look on the product page, you'll see "Sold by STQ Global shop and Fulfilled by Amazon", so it's a third party seller you're buying from in this case, and what I've noticed is a lot of third party sellers fail to remove the 20% UK VAT, and just add on 23% Irish VAT.

I don't know why many third party sellers do this, maybe it's cause they haven't set their selling options up correctly? But if you buy from Amazon UK/EU Sarl directly they always take off 20% UK VAT first and then add on 23% Irish VAT, which is the way you're supposed to do it when selling items from the UK to Irish customers.

That definitely wasn't the case yesterday, it was across the board, it didn't matter if it was amazon or a 3rd party and fulfilled by amazon

extrapolate · 22-06-2021 2:40pm

Bought an Echo yesterday and saw today they had fixed the pricing issue. So I contacted CS and they refunded me the difference. I was surprised to see they had actually fixed it tbh and didn't give me any weird runarounds regarding refunds! Happy with that

dubmick · 22-06-2021 2:40pm

What price are people seeing this at? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0761YL588/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Would be handy for the return to the office. It's a great mouse. Goes to £39.55 for me which is wrong.

leex · 22-06-2021 2:43pm

dubmick wrote: »

What price are people seeing this at? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0761YL588/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Would be handy for the return to the office. It's a great mouse. Goes to £39.55 for me which is wrong.

Showing GBP 44.55 at checkout for me and I have Prime.

Jofspring · 22-06-2021 2:44pm

dubmick wrote: »

What price are people seeing this at? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0761YL588/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Would be handy for the return to the office. It's a great mouse. Goes to £39.55 for me which is wrong.

When I put in my Irish address its changes to £44.55

22-06-2021 2:45pm

DevFirst wrote: »

They're not removing the 20% UK VAT at all, they're leaving the UK VAT on and simply adding 23% Irish VAT on top.

If you look on the product page, you'll see "Sold by STQ Global shop and Fulfilled by Amazon", so it's a third party seller you're buying from in this case, and what I've noticed is a lot of third party sellers fail to remove the 20% UK VAT, and just add on 23% Irish VAT.

Incorrect. There is no UK VAT to be removed as kid's shoes are VAT exempt in the UK. They are also VAT exempt in Ireland but Amazon is not taking that into account regardless of whether it is a third party seller or not. For example, these shoes are sold direct by Amazon and have the same issue.

Edit: Just noticed that the original shoes were not for kids.

POBox19 · 22-06-2021 2:47pm

dubmick wrote: »

What price are people seeing this at? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0761YL588/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Would be handy for the return to the office. It's a great mouse. Goes to £39.55 for me which is wrong.

Even worse:

Order Summary

Items: GBP 50.24 Postage & Packing: GBP 0.00 Import Fees Deposit: GBP 11.56 Total: GBP 61.80 Promotion Applied: -GBP 17.25 Order Total: GBP 44.55

ablelocks · 22-06-2021 2:48pm

Bose 700 soapstone and silver - checkout price £216.97 (listed price £209) (black is £279 listed)

vicwatson · 22-06-2021 2:53pm

Gonna be talking about this issue on the Ray Darcy show (but Thomas is on instead so it could be about her 2nd baby news)

DevFirst · 22-06-2021 2:59pm

dubmick wrote: »

What price are people seeing this at? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0761YL588/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Would be handy for the return to the office. It's a great mouse. Goes to £39.55 for me which is wrong.

Yep, the discount is still being calculated wrong on that product unfortunately.

Non Deal price is £60.29 minus Deal price £32.99, discount should be £27.30

Here's how it is in the checkout for me:

[b]Order Summary[/b]
Items:                 GBP 50.24 [i](correct, this is non deal price of &#163;60.29 minus 20&#37; UK VAT)[/i]
Postage and Packaging: GBP  0.00 [i](correct)[/i]
Import Fees Deposit:   GBP 11.56 [i](correct, this is 23% Irish VAT of 50.24)[/i]
Total:                 GBP 61.80 [i](correct)[/i]
Promotion Applied:    -GBP 17.25 [i](wrong discount amount)[/i]
Order Total:           GBP 44.55 [i](wrong cause of incorrect discount)[/i]

As you can see, Promotion Applied is only coming up as £17.25 at checkout.

Here's what it should be:

[b]Order Summary[/b]
Items:                 GBP 50.24 [i](correct)[/i]
Postage and Packaging: GBP  0.00 [i](correct)[/i]
Import Fees Deposit:   GBP 11.56 [i](correct)[/i]
Total:                 GBP 61.80 [i](correct)[/i]
Promotion Applied:    -GBP 27.30 [i](correct)[/i]
Order Total:           GBP 34.50 [i](would be the correct irish price, the small difference between &#163;34.50 and &#163;32.99 is simply due UK VAT (20%) and Irish VAT (23%) rates[/i]

vicwatson · 22-06-2021 3:07pm

Conor pope on rte radio 1 now, says Amazon are apologising

vicwatson · 22-06-2021 3:08pm

Refunds within 10 days for those overcharged

Amazon Prime Day 2021 - Monday 21st & Tuesday 22nd June

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