The Frankel Foals Watch Thread!

Brock Turnpike · 25-07-2020 1:43pm

tryfix wrote: »

This bad boy now named Dhahabi makes his debut in the 1.40 at Newmarket today.

He's trained by Charlie Appleby so he should be a decent 2yo. Hopefully he'll running for the bookies in some better races and making the price of his less glamorous competition.

A bit wild in running but gets the job done. Dinoo not far off catching him and looks like one to watch also.

25-07-2020 1:45pm

Won well if a little green

tryfix · 25-07-2020 1:54pm

TheTorment wrote: »

Won well if a little green

The important thing is that there's an engine there, the thing is how he progresses from here. The second was rapidly catching him so he better have more in the locker if he's going to be a bit of a star. He's a proper Derby horse in the making.

I think he had two handlers in the paddock which hints at temperament issues. If they go to the well too often too early in his career he could be an awful difficult horse to get the best out as a 3yo.

25-07-2020 2:14pm

tryfix wrote: »

The important thing is that there's an engine there, the thing is how he progresses from here. The second was rapidly catching him so he better have more in the locker if he's going to be a bit of a star. He's a proper Derby horse in the making.

I think he had two handlers in the paddock which hints at temperament issues. If they go to the well too often too early in his career he could be an awful difficult horse to get the best out as a 3yo.

I quite like the way he did it for his first run. He was entitled to be a little green but he did knuckle down on got the job done. I'd say there a bit more in the engine too.

tryfix · 15-08-2020 10:51pm

TheTorment wrote: »

I quite like the way he did it for his first run. He was entitled to be a little green but he did knuckle down on got the job done. I'd say there a bit more in the engine too.

Dhahabi was a little green again today when 2nd in the Listed race at Newbury that used to be called The Washington Singer Stakes. It was a decent enough race probably bordering on G3 standard, but he will meet far better competition than that if he's to justify his pedigree and price tag.

My takeaway from his performance is that he will need a stamina test as a 3yo to see him at his best.

tryfix · 15-08-2020 11:58pm

It has been a mixed few weeks for Frankel. He has had an awful lot of runners out in the last few weeks with not too many winners on the board but plenty of potential on display. I tend to be sceptical about the Frankels ability to progress, but his Salisbury Listed winner Alpinista could be a Mark Prescott special.

She took a huge step forward at Salisbury where she gave the G1 Nassau Stakes 4th Queen Power the same 3 1/2L beating that she got from Fancy Blue in the Nassau.

Prescott trained the dam Alwilda ( a Listed 2m 3f winner on the flat in Germany) for the same owner Kirsten Rausing, the Prescott Rausing team also raced the 2nd dam Albinova who was a multiple G1 winner in Germany. It's odds on that Alpinista will end up chasing G1 glory in Germany.

tryfix · 19-08-2020 8:19pm

tryfix wrote: »

It has been a mixed few weeks for Frankel. He has had an awful lot of runners out in the last few weeks with not too many winners on the board but plenty of potential on display. I tend to be sceptical about the Frankels ability to progress, but his Salisbury Listed winner Alpinista could be a Mark Prescott special.

She took a huge step forward at Salisbury where she gave the G1 Nassau Stakes 4th Queen Power the same 3 1/2L beating that she got from Fancy Blue in the Nassau.

Prescott trained the dam Alwilda ( a Listed 2m 3f winner on the flat in Germany) for the same owner Kirsten Rausing, the Prescott Rausing team also raced the 2nd dam Albinova who was a multiple G1 winner in Germany. It's odds on that Alpinista will end up chasing G1 glory in Germany.

Alpinista makes a quick reappearance in the G1 Yorkshire Oaks tomorrow. She's up against Love, apart from an on song Love I'd be happy to take her against the rest of the field. She's a huge price and they say the bigger the price the bigger the bet. I'll have a half decent bet on her tomorrow.

slimshady007 · 20-08-2020 3:32pm

tryfix wrote: »

Alpinista makes a quick reappearance in the G1 Yorkshire Oaks tomorrow. She's up against Love, apart from an on song Love I'd be happy to take her against the rest of the field. She's a huge price and they say the bigger the price the bigger the bet. I'll have a half decent bet on her tomorrow.

Good shout. What price did you get in the 'w/o the fav' market or did u go e/w?

tryfix · 20-08-2020 3:44pm

slimshady007 wrote: »

Good shout. What price did you get in the 'w/o the fav' market or did u go e/w?

I couldn't get on. I woke up this morning with no Internet or phone access ( the storm) and it only came back as they were entering the stalls.

It was a smashing race anyway ðŸ˜‚

Brock Turnpike · 20-08-2020 3:56pm

slimshady007 wrote: »

Good shout. What price did you get in the 'w/o the fav' market or did u go e/w?

I had a look at the w/o market last night on PP and it was 10/1. Didn't get on though. No money in the PP account.

tryfix · 20-12-2020 1:42pm

Japan continues to be a happy hunting ground for Frankel. Grenadier Guards won the G1 Asahi Futurity Stakes for 2yos.

I think that makes it a total of three Juvenile G1 winners so far for Frankel, with 2 of them being in Japan. It's a reasonable strike rate considering that a fair amount of his stock aren't too precocious and need a trip.

Grenadier Guards is out of an American G1 winner Wavell Avenue who won her G1 at 7f as a 2yo, she trained on at 3 but a 2nd in a 7f G1 was her best form as a 3yo. She never ran beyond 7f in her career. I will be watching this fellas career with interest to see whether he'll be a middle distance colt or a miler, I'd imagine that he would be comfortable at 10-12f.

Itziger · 20-12-2020 3:25pm

Where's this fella on European stats? Not appearing on page 1 anyway!!!

The Tetrarch · 22-12-2020 12:15pm

I confess I am not a fan of Frankel.
As we are very close to the end of the year I thought I would look up the 2020 UK sires table on arion.co.nz.

Rank Stallion Ccode Yof - To Stud Breeding Rnrs Wnrs Wins SW(SWins) Earnings Best Performer
1 Galileo (IRE) 1998 - 2002 Sadler's Wells - Urban Sea 93 26 37 8(10) £2,284,484 Love - 425,325
2 Dubawi (IRE) 2002 - 2006 Dubai Millennium - Zomaradah 187 77 103 13(18) £2,270,036 The Revenant - 368,615
3 Dark Angel (IRE) 2005 - 2008 Acclamation - Midnight Angel 224 91 131 8(11) £1,737,917 Battaash - 360,663
4 Kodiac (GB) 2001 - 2007 Danehill - Rafha 268 99 132 7(8) £1,467,308 Hello Youmzain - 148,000
5 Pivotal (GB) 1993 - 1997 Polar Falcon - Fearless Revival 68 21 35 3(4) £1,346,928 Addeybb - 497,037
6 Sea the Stars (IRE) 2006 - 2010 Cape Cross - Urban Sea 121 45 59 8(9) £1,169,940 Stradivarius - 301,611
7 Lope de Vega (IRE) 2007 - 2011 Shamardal - Lady Vettori 154 58 91 5(7) £1,093,414 Summerghand - 79,942
8 Invincible Spirit (IRE) 1997 - 2003 Green Desert - Rafha 138 61 83 4(7) £1,084,498 Nazeef - 299,046
9 Kingman (GB) 2011 - 2015 Invincible Spirit - Zenda 133 60 74 6(6) £1,071,894 Palace Pier - 227,392
10 Frankel (GB) 2008 - 2013 Galileo - Kind 130 51 72 6(7) £1,047,758 Frankly Darling - 102,238

tryfix · 23-12-2020 1:36am

The Tetrarch wrote: »

I confess I am not a fan of Frankel.
As we are very close to the end of the year I thought I would look up the 2020 UK sires table on arion.co.nz.

Rank Stallion Ccode Yof - To Stud Breeding Rnrs Wnrs Wins SW(SWins) Earnings Best Performer
1 Galileo (IRE) 1998 - 2002 Sadler's Wells - Urban Sea 93 26 37 8(10) £2,284,484 Love - 425,325
2 Dubawi (IRE) 2002 - 2006 Dubai Millennium - Zomaradah 187 77 103 13(18) £2,270,036 The Revenant - 368,615
3 Dark Angel (IRE) 2005 - 2008 Acclamation - Midnight Angel 224 91 131 8(11) £1,737,917 Battaash - 360,663
4 Kodiac (GB) 2001 - 2007 Danehill - Rafha 268 99 132 7(8) £1,467,308 Hello Youmzain - 148,000
5 Pivotal (GB) 1993 - 1997 Polar Falcon - Fearless Revival 68 21 35 3(4) £1,346,928 Addeybb - 497,037
6 Sea the Stars (IRE) 2006 - 2010 Cape Cross - Urban Sea 121 45 59 8(9) £1,169,940 Stradivarius - 301,611
7 Lope de Vega (IRE) 2007 - 2011 Shamardal - Lady Vettori 154 58 91 5(7) £1,093,414 Summerghand - 79,942
8 Invincible Spirit (IRE) 1997 - 2003 Green Desert - Rafha 138 61 83 4(7) £1,084,498 Nazeef - 299,046
9 Kingman (GB) 2011 - 2015 Invincible Spirit - Zenda 133 60 74 6(6) £1,071,894 Palace Pier - 227,392
10 Frankel (GB) 2008 - 2013 Galileo - Kind 130 51 72 6(7) £1,047,758 Frankly Darling - 102,238

His 3yo crop this year was lacking in ability to say the least, he's only there in that table due to the weight of runners he has who can win or place in half decent races. Definitely in comparison to his first and second crops, last year he was way down on quality.

I've seen his stock described as being physically strong. I'd agree that raw strength is their defining quality, there are big engines there but they're often coarse and not the types that thrive on the heat of a battle or on having to up their game . If only they had the resolution to go with the brute strength.

The overall stats are there, the Group and Grade 1 winners are there and should be proof of his prowess as a stallion, but there's still something consistently disappointing about the Frankels

tryfix · 13-05-2021 11:21pm

So what do ye think of the smart Derby types that Frankel has produced this year?

Hurricane Lane trained by Charlie Appleby looked very solid winning the Dante. The actual form of the win was less impressive than the way he stuck to his guns and battled to win the race. There's many a Frankel that doesn't do a whole lot in a close finish. This fella wanted to win. Would have to think hard about his chances in the Derby, he's a stayer with a DI of 0.52 and his mother won a listed race over 2miles so there's a legitimate worry about him lacking the speed to win a Derby.

Mohaafeth trained by Willie Haggis won a Listed race by 5L achieving an RPR of 117. That makes him nearly good enough to win a Derby already. He has a surprisingly low DI of 0.63 but his mother was a 10 1/f winner Listed winner for John Gosden so he's not really bred to be a slow boat and he showed a lot of speed to win his own Listed 10f race.

I think both of these colts are untypical of the types of Frankel that we have seen racing up until now, they show what looks like being genuine enthusiasm about winning races.

The last of these Frankels is the less exposed John Leeper who won a Newcastle all weather by a long looking 4L. He's out of the Oaks winner and top 10f horse Snow Fairy, again he has a stayers DI of 0.60 which will get him 12f-16f. This fella is dark coloured and looks like his mother, the only Frankel I see in him is that he looks tall and slightly awkward but he has enough quality to negate that.

tryfix · 05-06-2021 4:44pm

Frankel silences the doubters with a 1st and 3rd in the Derby and Mohaafeth is waiting in the wings to challenge at Ascot.

Certainly this year's Frankels have been a lot more normal in their development than the usual flash in the pan types.

12-06-2021 9:56pm

Converge another group one winner in Australia today. 15 in total to date, surpassing Sea The Stars despite STS having a three year head start. Lots of good looking ammunition for the rest of the season too.

I reckon this debate is well and truly over at this stage, but I'm sure some of our resident "experts" can give it a go ðŸ€£

tryfix · 13-06-2021 7:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Converge another group one winner in Australia today. 15 in total to date, surpassing Sea The Stars despite STS having a three year head start. Lots of good looking ammunition for the rest of the season too.

I reckon this debate is well and truly over at this stage, but I'm sure some of our resident "experts" can give it a go ��

The quality of a stallion is a little more complex than quantity.

Sea The Stars has 9 progeny with an official rating of OR 120+

Frankel has 3 progeny with an official rating of OR 120+

The quantity is undoubtedly there for Frankel. There is simply no argument about his numbers in general.

However the Quality and durability of his top end horses is a topic worthy of discussion.

For instance the Australian horse Converge recorded a 110 RPR for his G1 win yesterday.

That's G2 winning juvenile form here not G1, indeed you will see G3 horses here struggling to win such races off OR 110 ratings and the 110 OR would roughly be the equivalent of a 112 RPR here. Put simply very few Australian G1s should be allowed that status due to the lower class of their participants.

On the Other hand Cracksman was truly outstanding and World Class. although his wide margin wins on Soft ground make his high rating just a small bit OTT.

How many multiple G1 winners has he produced, how many have been in Europe and how many did it year after year and so on. He produces a staggering amount of 100+ horses but there's a problem with them hitting a peak after doing well in good pattern company and not progressing after.

This crop of 3yo Frankel colts is very promising, I do hope that they continue to progress and that Frankel can keep producing Derby and Oaks winning horses. Off the top of my head there's no other serious challenger to Galileo's dominance of the 12f classics.

The Frankel Foals Watch Thread!

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