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07-12-2018, 12:12   #1
clod71
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bar end shifters ???

This may be a topic which has been discussed before, but I couldn't find any trace of it searching quickly in the forum...
I'd love to get rid of cantilevers as I'm absolutely useless at tuning them plus they brake very little in fairness. Also, I hate them with all my heart, I do.
My understanding though is that it's impossible to use v-brakes in conjunction with STI levers, specifically with Campy (a Campy 10sp is my setup right now) I have tried in the past once or twice and they simply don't work.
The only way must be that of going with some simple brake levers on the drops and bar end shifters...
Now, being aware of all the limitations a set up like this might have in terms of performance and comfort, I would still prefer it, if it would me get out of the Cantis hell!!! Also, This is only a bike used to commute or going for some random and rare back road adventure...
I'm thinking of changing the whole drivetrain too to end up on a 1x 11sp Shimano/SRAM mtb compatible...

Would any bar end shifters work (obviously 11sp)
Like this ones for instance...
https://www.bike24.com/p237757.html?...0end%20shifter

Any other idea, you could suggest?

Thanks
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07-12-2018, 14:28   #2
Mefistofelino
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I've been through the mill on this stuff. I have a cross bike with cantis that has been through the following changes:

STI with cheap Tektro cantis

STI with XTR V-brakes and Travel Agent cable-pull adjuster (all from my stock of spares, aka "box o'shyte")

STI with TRP CX mini-Vees (supposedly designed for working with STI levers), both with and without the Travel agent

Dia Compe non-STI brake levers (with extra cable pull for working with mini-vees), TRP CX and bar-end shifters

STI with Avid Shorty Ultimate cantis

The last gave the best combination of usability, brake feel and clearance and are still on the bike. Although the mini-vees should have offered better braking, it never seemed to find the sweet spot between lever travel and braking force.

I like the simplicity of bar end shifters and still have them on a 80s MTB-based "frankenbike" with drop bars (which made it a gravel bike 20 years before they became a "thing"). However make sure the cable routing is clean, with sufficient bend radii and good quality, lubricated cables. Its a long way from the lever to the rear mech and if there is drag on it, you'll end up with poor shifting and bruises on your palm in "busy" off road terrain where you'll be doing a lot of shifting.

The shifters you've linked should work for a road-based Shimano system. However I don't know if they'd work with a Shimano (or SRAM) MTB rear mech. I suspect the cable-pull will be different but will happily be corrected on that.

(In the interests of full disclosure, the canti-equipped cross bike was retired and replaced with disc-brakes, which are infinitely better. I would never go back to cantis or vees on a new build.)
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07-12-2018, 17:34   #3
clod71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefistofelino View Post
I've been through the mill on this stuff. I have a cross bike with cantis that has been through the following changes:

STI with cheap Tektro cantis

STI with XTR V-brakes and Travel Agent cable-pull adjuster (all from my stock of spares, aka "box o'shyte")

STI with TRP CX mini-Vees (supposedly designed for working with STI levers), both with and without the Travel agent

Dia Compe non-STI brake levers (with extra cable pull for working with mini-vees), TRP CX and bar-end shifters

STI with Avid Shorty Ultimate cantis

The last gave the best combination of usability, brake feel and clearance and are still on the bike. Although the mini-vees should have offered better braking, it never seemed to find the sweet spot between lever travel and braking force.

I like the simplicity of bar end shifters and still have them on a 80s MTB-based "frankenbike" with drop bars (which made it a gravel bike 20 years before they became a "thing"). However make sure the cable routing is clean, with sufficient bend radii and good quality, lubricated cables. Its a long way from the lever to the rear mech and if there is drag on it, you'll end up with poor shifting and bruises on your palm in "busy" off road terrain where you'll be doing a lot of shifting.

The shifters you've linked should work for a road-based Shimano system. However I don't know if they'd work with a Shimano (or SRAM) MTB rear mech. I suspect the cable-pull will be different but will happily be corrected on that.

(In the interests of full disclosure, the canti-equipped cross bike was retired and replaced with disc-brakes, which are infinitely better. I would never go back to cantis or vees on a new build.)
Thanks LittleDevil
The other option is obviously to change the fork for a disc one, but I don't know any welder in the Cork area who could modify the rear to add a plate and a reinforcement for a disc...
I think eventually a new frameset is possibly to best way to go, but I love my Cross Check and I'd like to hold to it for as much as I can, without cantis though...
Also I'm not sure about discs being so much better than v-brakes!!!
Thanks for your contribution indeed.
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10-12-2018, 14:20   #4
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I'm running Avid Shorty Ultimate canti on the front with a plain road lever (Avid BB7 disc on the rear) and dura ace bar end shifters. Works very nicely thank you. For some reason best known to Thorn, the rear mech is a 9 speed MTB for a 10 speed cassette and shifter. I think it's for the long cage for extra wide touring gear range.

That said, if the Avid shortys work for you you can stay with the STI levers.
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10-12-2018, 14:56   #5
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https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content...#37;5B234%5D=1

With bar-end shifters. Have that setup on my commuter now for about 6 years. Because it's a commuter, I've no front mech, so just the one bar-end shifter. Not sure having a second one would be any more weird though tbh.
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10-12-2018, 18:59   #6
Mefistofelino
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Quote:
The other option is obviously to change the fork for a disc one, but I don't know any welder in the Cork area who could modify the rear to add a plate and a reinforcement for a disc...
I think eventually a new frameset is possibly to best way to go, but I love my Cross Check and I'd like to hold to it for as much as I can, without cantis though...
Also I'm not sure about discs being so much better than v-brakes!!!
Thanks for your contribution indeed.
You can get a bolt on bracket from A2Z to mount a disc calliper on an ordinary frame but at that point you're down to a new fork, rear bracket, disc wheelset , callipers and possibly new STIs if you want to run hydraulic discs. I think you'd be better off persevering with the set up of the cantis or vees, maybe with new Swissstop inserts. Even cleaning the rims with one of those Mavic abrasive blocks makes an improvement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cdaly
For some reason best known to Thorn, the rear mech is a 9 speed MTB for a 10 speed cassette and shifter. I think it's for the long cage for extra wide touring gear range.
That's exactly it. For some reason, 9 speed MTB mechs work well with 10 speed road shifters ( and 8 speed mechs with 9 speed shifters) so you can have a large capacity mechs relatively cheaply. Plus they are usually in stock in the likes of your LBS or Halfords. Sometimes the long cage Shimano GS road mechs have to be ordered in. Unfortunately, Shimano stopped the road / MTB "compatibility" at 11 speed otherwise it would have ben possible to run a 10 speed MTB mech with clutch on a road/cross/gravel bike.
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10-12-2018, 23:45   #7
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Ok, this is getting very interesting now...
Like I said I do not care about the ease of use of STI on this particular bike. it would be used mostly as a commuter or on relaxed explorations of the surrounding back roads network, so who cares if I have to move my hand on the drops to change gear..
What interests me is the possibility to mix and MTB long cage derailleur and a 10sp cassette with a 36t cog and a single 42t chainring in the front
I suppose you could climb even a wall with a 36t cog in the back?

I do have the RL520 levers @seamus and they're supposed to work with mini v-brakes (mini should be fine with a 32/35mm tyre?)

Which bar end shifters would work with a drivetrain like that?
Would a road 10sp bar end shifter, like the Durace 7900, work?
Is going with SRAM a better option?

Thanks
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10-12-2018, 23:57   #8
Mefistofelino
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10 speed bar end shifters will work with a 9 speed MTB mech - I ran Dura Ace with an XT rear mech. Just check that whatever mech you chose is "Top Normal" - ie the spring pushes the mech out to the smallest sprocket. A GS medium cage would be sufficient for a 36t cassette
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Yesterday, 14:52   #9
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Here it says Microshift BS-M11 11-Speed Bar End Shifters are Shimano Dynasys Compatible
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=83369
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Yesterday, 15:35   #10
Mefistofelino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clod71 View Post
Here it says Microshift BS-M11 11-Speed Bar End Shifters are Shimano Dynasys Compatible
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=83369
Yup - they should work with 11 spd Shimano MTB mechs and either a road or MTB 11 speed cassette (the sprocket to sprocket distance is the same).

They won't work with an 11 speed road mech.
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Yesterday, 20:53   #11
clod71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mefistofelino View Post
Yup - they should work with 11 spd Shimano MTB mechs and either a road or MTB 11 speed cassette (the sprocket to sprocket distance is the same).

They won't work with an 11 speed road mech.
It's good to finally get a bit of clarity on the whole topic.

Now I'm thinking 1x 11sp.
A single 42t ring in the front, which combined with an 11-40 cassette in the rear should give me plenty of range...
The RL520 levers on some compact drop bars kitted with those Microshift bar end shifters and a good pair of mini v-brakes (Paul?) to finish the job and finally retire those most hated cantis!!!

Thanks again to everyone for the contributions.
When I'll finally get down to it (God knows when), I'll post a pic of the build.

Cheers!!!

Last edited by clod71; Yesterday at 23:58.
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