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12-11-2018, 17:53   #16
buffalo
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Originally Posted by average_runner View Post
That's why I am asking. We always seem to refer to deaths, but forget about the life changing injuries etc.

My brother was unconscious for over two weeks after an accident on his bike. He eventually recovered but the stress our family went through, will he/ or not make it.
So would you disqualify the use of one statistic in favour of another that apparently doesn't exist?

It's not all about deaths certainly, but it's all we have at present to indicate patterns and trends, unless you care to produce some more detailed data?
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12-11-2018, 17:56   #17
at1withmyself
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But this is the cycling forum, not the motoring forum. Let the motorist have there own debate there.

Cycling without lights is against the law and just because people break debateably worse laws that is not a good argument.

As per other comments even 1 death is too much.

Why not have a discussion without bringing cars into it?

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The question isn't whether the point is valid.

The question is, of all the issues on the road that need action, where abouts on the priority list of all valid issues is this one?

I don't think it is in the top 20. I'm not sure it is in the top 50.

I often wonder why the creativity and motivation of many motorists in coming up with ideas to 'fix' cycling and cyclists is not applied to fixing the real danger on the roads - the motorists who kill three or four people each week and maim many more.
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12-11-2018, 18:07   #18
OleRodrigo
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The problem with lights is there is no minimum or maximum standard.

I'm about as diligent as they come, but even so I found myself riding home on a few occasions with a very dim rear light as the battery died en route. I often see the same with other commuters. At the other end of the scale, there are lights that are clearly too bright for the conditions they are used in.

If some conscientious public servant was to step up and copy the German system of roadworthy lights it would help things a lot.

Until then, hi vis is the best option for sweeping the problem under the carpet with the least amount of effort.
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12-11-2018, 18:09   #19
Fighting Tao
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Didn't we just have this discussion a day or two ago?
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12-11-2018, 18:17   #20
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The funny thing is, I bought 2 brilliant quality rechargeable USB lights for about 20 quid. I've had them for a few years now and they are as good as the day I bought them.
Its not like the cost of the lights is prohibitive, you don't even have the cost of batteries!
There is no excuse for not having lights!
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12-11-2018, 18:22   #21
Fighting Tao
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The funny thing is, I bought 2 brilliant quality rechargeable USB lights for about 20 quid. I've had them for a few years now and they are as good as the day I bought them.
Its not like the cost of the lights is prohibitive, you don't even have the cost of batteries!
There is no excuse for not having lights!
Just like there is no excuse for speeding, for walking across roads in front of cars, for not tying shoelaces, for being lazy....people are people. They don't all behave the same.
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12-11-2018, 18:40   #22
jjpep
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Originally Posted by at1withmyself View Post
But this is the cycling forum, not the motoring forum. Let the motorist have there own debate there.

Cycling without lights is against the law and just because people break debateably worse laws that is not a good argument.

As per other comments even 1 death is too much.

Why not have a discussion without bringing cars into it?
I guess there's not a whole lot to discuss really if we narrow the scope too much. Everyone agrees that not having lights is stupid. But people do stupid things all the time. There's laws against it but laws get broken all the time. The gardai only have finite resources so they use them on what they perceive to be the most important things.

A more interesting topic (IMHO) is why do people do stupid things in general but might belong in a psychology forum more than a cycling one.
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12-11-2018, 19:10   #23
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On my route home in the evening (half five/sixish heading south from Dublin city centre towards D16) there are a gratifyingly large number of cyclists with ok to good lights. Much better than I remember. Guess the range of cheaper, good lights is making a difference.
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12-11-2018, 19:23   #24
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Given this is the most eponymous thread a cycling forum could hope for, it's a pity it isn't a bit more positive.
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12-11-2018, 19:26   #25
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Before dawn yesterday morning Mercian Pro and myself were 'on the road'.

We were passed by a motorist in darkness with no lights on. At the next set of lights MP tapped on his window to tell him. He responded "I know".
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12-11-2018, 19:32   #26
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Originally Posted by tomasrojo View Post
On my route home in the evening (half five/sixish heading south from Dublin city centre towards D16) there are a gratifyingly large number of cyclists with ok to good lights. Much better than I remember. Guess the range of cheaper, good lights is making a difference.
I'd say it's down to price partly and seeing other people with lights, sowing the seed with them maybe. I've also noticed it in our town.
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12-11-2018, 19:58   #27
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I’m predominantly a cyclist but for the last few weeks I’ve been forced to use the car everyday and TBH I can see why some get upset at people on bikes.
But these are not cyclists. They are piss heads with their hands down their bags hiding drugs and men cycling home from a day on the building site and after having a few pints.
Woman who won’t wear a helmet as it will mess their hair.
Men who want to talk on the phone while on the bike and going against the traffic.

If these are cyclist, then we need to start calling people on mopeds and Honda 50’s bikers and dominos pizza drivers rally drivers.

So OP,you are posting in the wrong place as we here are proper cyclists for the most part.
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12-11-2018, 20:05   #28
buffalo
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Originally Posted by tomasrojo View Post
Given this is the most eponymous thread a cycling forum could hope for, it's a pity it isn't a bit more positive.
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12-11-2018, 20:42   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by at1withmyself View Post
But this is the cycling forum, not the motoring forum. Let the motorist have there own debate there.

Cycling without lights is against the law and just because people break debateably worse laws that is not a good argument.

As per other comments even 1 death is too much.

Why not have a discussion without bringing cars into it?

I'm a motorist, like most cyclists. So I can talk about the dangers of motoring on any thread, subject to usual moderation rules. The more interesting question is why so many people are so dedicated to 'fixing' cyclists and cycling, but they seem to run out of ideas before they start when it comes to fixing the motorists who kill 3 or 4 people each week.


It's like a doctor finding a patient bleeding out due to an amputation, and giving them a sticking plaster.
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12-11-2018, 20:52   #30
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Originally Posted by irishrover99 View Post
I’m predominantly a cyclist but for the last few weeks I’ve been forced to use the car everyday and TBH I can see why some get upset at people on bikes.
But these are not cyclists. They are piss heads with their hands down their bags hiding drugs and men cycling home from a day on the building site and after having a few pints.
Woman who won’t wear a helmet as it will mess their hair.
Men who want to talk on the phone while on the bike and going against the traffic.

If these are cyclist, then we need to start calling people on mopeds and Honda 50’s bikers and dominos pizza drivers rally drivers.

So OP,you are posting in the wrong place as we here are proper cyclists for the most part.
I don't think you can differentiate like that. If I'm driving a car, I'm a driver. If I'm cycling a bike, I'm a cyclist. There are good and bad drivers, just like there are good and bad cyclists, but you can't discount bad behaviour on a bike by saying "but they're not real cyclists"
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