Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
04-10-2016, 09:45   #16
Chuchote
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 5,324
Cars driving the wrong way down one-way streets? See it often - and again, many cities allow cyclists to contraflow on one-ways as it's safe.

Cars driving across pedestrian crossings? Say what? But cyclists going across parallel to pedestrian crossings is perfectly safe; cycling among the pedestrian crossings is rude, but generally not unsafe.

Driving on the wrong side of the road? Well, for example, a few days ago I passed out a bus at the stop at Rathmines Garda Station, signalling that I wanted to take the fork immediately after it. A driver drove his car past me on the right, crossing the white line, then swerved across me to take the left-hand fork. He or she would have had to pause for perhaps five seconds behind me to legally go left.

Driving on the pavement: have you ever walked down Beaver Row, to take one example? Pavements are for walking? Naah, they're for parking!

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.31759...7i13312!8i6656
Chuchote is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
04-10-2016, 09:47   #17
Weepsie
Moderator
 
Weepsie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchote View Post

A cyclist (say 150kg of human on a 15kg bicycle) who goes through a red light is endangering only himself or herself (if that) in virtually all cases;
This line gets thrown out a lot and in terms of physical injury obviously true. What of the psychological impact of someone being hit because they've gone through a red light? That can be devastating for the other party.

Maybe not relevant to the OP, but again it's not looking at these things from all possible angles and a little amount of whataboutery in there. Just think when, if you're breaking a light and you're in an accident, there is generally another party who didn't need to be in that accident*

*I've had accidents with absolutely noone around.
Weepsie is offline  
04-10-2016, 09:49   #18
AlreadyHome
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 128
Will people here be making the effort to write to the journalist in question? You never know - engage the journalist sufficiently and he might start thinking "There's a sizeable audience for cycling related pieces. Maybe I'll keep going on this". I find the comment section under pieces just a useless free-for-all most of the time.

Sure, he might be a bit of a prat now, but keep at him and he might change his tune.
AlreadyHome is offline  
Thanks from:
04-10-2016, 09:49   #19
Chuchote
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 5,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weepsie View Post
This line gets thrown out a lot and in terms of physical injury obviously true. What of the psychological impact of someone being hit because they've gone through a red light? That can be devastating for the other party.

Maybe not relevant to the OP, but again it's not looking at these things from all possible angles and a little amount of whataboutery in there. Just think when, if you're breaking a light and you're in an accident, there is generally another party who didn't need to be in that accident*

*I've had accidents with absolutely noone around.
Certainly true, Weepsie, but again, the statistics are that cyclists going through red lights cause very few accidents. And in many cities, cyclists are now allowed to run reds if it's safe:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ccidents-study

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...-san-francisco
Chuchote is offline  
(2) thanks from:
04-10-2016, 09:50   #20
Peterx
Registered User
 
Peterx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: dublin
Posts: 1,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchote View Post
Damn straight. It's Trumpism Irish-style, the politics of envy - with the envy, weirdly, mostly being directed downwards. Scotes! Scroungers! Why should I pay for libraries, mate, I don't read!

John Lanchester had a brilliant piece some years back about this (to search for it, the best way is to look for "the shít we're in"!) from which my favourite line is "the trouble with the poor is that they have too much money".

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n01/john-la...all-it-failure
I learned a new word in that article which does nicely sum up the issue
mythopoesis
Mythopoeia is a narrative genre in modern literature and film where a fictional or artificial mythology is created by the writer of prose or other fiction.

There are many myths about cyclists, my favourite one is that there is a "we" at all. A lot of the time there are just people commuting who happen to be on a bike as it suits them at this moment in time, it's either cheaper or quicker. These people are not cyclists, if driving or the bus or walking was cheaper or quicker they would sell the bike.
Peterx is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
04-10-2016, 09:55   #21
tomasrojo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Dublin
Posts: 9,298
Quote:
Motorists have to stop when the lights go red at a pedestrian crossing even if there are no pedestrians.
Actually, this is one of the most persistent offences done by motorists. Especially left turns through pedestrian crossings when there is only a straight-ahead green, and barrelling through pedestrian crossings that aren't at a junction, where there is no risk to the driver from collisions with cross-traffic.
tomasrojo is offline  
(2) thanks from:
04-10-2016, 09:56   #22
Orinoco
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billgirlylegs View Post
However, driving on footpaths? driving on the wrong side of the road? driving across pedestrian crossings? driving incorrectly on a one way street?
How many times have you seen it?
Driving on footpaths - all day, every day, all over Dublin. The standard Dublin parking procedure appears to be 'two wheels up on the pavement' wherever people can get away with it. That's why we have bollards along the pavement all over the city.

Wrong side of the road isn't common but nor is it common for cyclists. You see the odd idiot doing it, but it's hardly something to be concerned about.

Driving across pedestrian crossings? ALL THE TIME. Are you blind? Stand at a pedestrian crossing and count how many cars break the amber and red light. Try it. The difference is they kill people who aren't aware that the average Dublin driver thinks amber and the first couple of seconds of red mean 'speed up'.

Driving incorrectly on a one-way street is also common enough, I see that done frequently. Not as often as cyclists, but still common.

Road deaths caused by motor vehicles year to date: 138
Road deaths caused by a cyclist / pedestrian incident: 1

The latter was a cyclist killed whilst cycling on a cycle path.

Open your eyes and engage your brain.
Orinoco is offline  
04-10-2016, 09:59   #23
DanDublin1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 619
Biillgirlylegs What are you basing that 50℅ on?

I'll be honest the article isnt all that bad imo. Some of the phraseology is certainly questionable but his over riding points are 1)better infrastructure is needed 2) those who act the bo11ocks should stop doing so and 3) action on the first will help with the second.

I think we all pretty much agree with those three things.
DanDublin1982 is offline  
04-10-2016, 10:02   #24
Chuchote
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 5,324
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlreadyHome View Post
Will people here be making the effort to write to the journalist in question? You never know - engage the journalist sufficiently and he might start thinking "There's a sizeable audience for cycling related pieces. Maybe I'll keep going on this". I find the comment section under pieces just a useless free-for-all most of the time.

Sure, he might be a bit of a prat now, but keep at him and he might change his tune.
It might be worth cc'ing him in on emails today to Dublin City Councillors in relation to the Liffey Cycleway, with many of the points being made here - perhaps sending the emails to the Letters page lettersed@irishtimes.com
Chuchote is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
04-10-2016, 10:05   #25
ThisRegard
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 27,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billgirlylegs View Post
However, driving on footpaths? driving on the wrong side of the road? driving across pedestrian crossings? driving incorrectly on a one way street?
How many times have you seen it?
Cyclists do it all day, everyday.
As do people driving cars. Don't know what utopia you're posting from to think otherwise.
ThisRegard is offline  
Thanks from:
04-10-2016, 10:07   #26
Weepsie
Moderator
 
Weepsie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomasrojo View Post
Actually, this is one of the most persistent offences done by motorists. Especially left turns through pedestrian crossings when there is only a straight-ahead green, and barrelling through pedestrian crossings that aren't at a junction, where there is no risk to the driver from collisions with cross-traffic.
Saw it this morning in fact, outside a school. Have the reg. Should probably report it to traffic watch
Weepsie is offline  
(2) thanks from:
04-10-2016, 10:11   #27
mcgratheoin
Registered User
 
mcgratheoin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billgirlylegs View Post
The behaviour of a significant proportion (more than 50%) of cyclists is a big pain, sometimes dangerous to others - pedestrians, cyclists and motorists - and that is why there are so many negative articles and comments.
Well that's just incorrect. I cycle a 40km round trip each day including the quays in Dublin and dangerous behaviour is not the dominant observation of any road user. Most cyclists stop for red lights but not all, most cars stop for red lights but not all of them. This morning I saw two cyclists make left turns on red and I saw a van and car try to cross Pearse St heading north on Macken Street when there was no space for them, thus blocking all traffic heading east on Pearse Street for an entire cycle of lights. Plenty of pedestrians also walked out across the road without adequately checking for traffic.
The problem with these articles is that
  1. any article about cycling seems incomplete without a measure of victim-blaming and a rant about poor cyclist behaviour
  2. the proportion of cyclists breaking the laws is always exaggerated
  3. other poor behaviour on the roads is ignored, both driving and pedestrian
  4. a false equivalence is generated between the dangers of poor cycling behaviour and poor driving behaviour
  5. all cyclists and cycling lobby groups are tarred with the same brush in a way that driving lobby groups e.g. Conor Faughnan and the AA are not

Given the recent craven attempt by the Dept. of Transport to undermine the express intent and will of a Ministerial decision by casting doubt over legislation that they themselves created, the car-centric focus of the RSA, the lack of anything bar lip-service to the National Cycle Policy's goal of having 10% of journeys made my bike in 2020 and the repeated cyclist bashing articles in national media, it is difficult to believe that cycling is getting a fair hearing nationally.

As an aside, here are the 19 objectives of the NCPF - I'll let others judge how well these have been implemented over the last 7 years.

Objective 1: Support the planning, development and design of towns and cities in a cycling and pedestrian friendly way.
Objective 2: Ensure that the urban road infrastructure(with the exception of motorways) is designed /retrofitted so as to be cyclist-friendly and that traffic management measures are also cyclist friendly.
Objective 3: Provide designated rural cycle networks especially for visitors and recreational cycling.
Objective 4: Provide cycling-friendly routes to all schools, adequate cycling parking facilities within schools, and cycling training to all school pupils.
Objective 5: Ensure that all of the surfaces used by cyclists are maintained to a high standard and are well lit.
Objective 6: Ensure that all cycling networks - both urban and rural - are signposted to an agreed standard.
Objective 7: Provide secure parking for bikes.
Objective 8: Ensure proper integration between cycling and public transport.
Objective 9: Provide public bikes in cities.
Objective 10: Improve the image of cycling and promote cycling using “soft interventions” such as promotional campaigns, events etc.
Objective 11: Improve cyclists’ cycling standards and behaviour on the roads.
Objective 12: Improve driver education and driving standards so that there is a greater appreciation for the safety needs of cyclists.
Objective 13: Support the provision of fiscal incentives to cycle.
Objective 14: Provide appropriate levels of, and timely, financial resources towards implementing the NCPF.
Objective 15: Introduce changes to legislation to improve cyclist safety.
Objective 16: Improve enforcement of traffic laws to enhance cyclist safety and respect for cyclists.
Objective 17: Develop a structure that can coordinate the implementation of activities across the many Government Departments, Agencies and NGO’s.
Objective 18: Provide design professionals with suitable training / guidance to develop and implement the policies of the NCPF. Support the deepening of knowledge of the subject of planning for cyclists in Ireland.
Objective 19: Evaluate the cycling policy and monitor the success as the measures are implemented.
mcgratheoin is offline  
04-10-2016, 10:13   #28
magicbastarder
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 21,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weepsie View Post
Saw it this morning in fact, outside a school. Have the reg. Should probably report it to traffic watch
i live near the corner of ballymun road and glasnevin avenue. it's amazing how many people get the green light for straight ahead, and take it as a signal they can turn left - and when the lights are in that configuration, it's to allow the pedestrian lights to go green across that left hand turn. i recently saw three cars do it en masse.
magicbastarder is offline  
(2) thanks from:
04-10-2016, 10:19   #29
Chuchote
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 5,324
@mcgratheoin Could I suggest that you take that entire post and send it to all the Dublin City Councillors today (PM me for a list of their emails), and also to the Minister and The Irish Times?

Today, because tomorrow the council is deciding on the Liffey Cycleway on the north quays. http://irishcycle.com/2016/10/03/lif...welcomed-move/

Quote:
The outline of the new solution will be presented to councillors and other committee members on Wednesday [5 October 2016], it is then expected to be presented formally as part of the entire Liffey Cycle Route at the proceeding committee meeting on November 23.
Chuchote is offline  
Thanks from:
04-10-2016, 10:19   #30
Weepsie
Moderator
 
Weepsie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicbastarder View Post
i live near the corner of ballymun road and glasnevin avenue. it's amazing how many people get the green light for straight ahead, and take it as a signal they can turn left - and when the lights are in that configuration, it's to allow the pedestrian lights to go green across that left hand turn. i recently saw three cars do it en masse.
I know that road as I go past it everyday albeit coming from the Northwood/Ballymun end. The sequence is very predictable, never too long a wait and yeah, always someone doing something stupid or taking a chance there, particularly those crossing from Glasnevin Avenue to the Collins Avenue Extension.
Weepsie is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet