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Female student beaten up in Maynooth(NO SPECULATION)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 999 ✭✭✭fizzypish


    osarusan wrote: »
    Horrible assault, and I think it is worse than the 'everyday' stuff. The every stuff doesn't even get reported on.

    Also dislike the gender angle here - being a man wouldn't make this any less painful or scary.

    Also dislike the 'playing sport gets you used to rough stuff' angle - I was a local football player and got rough tackles and all that and was also an amateur boxer and obviously got punched in the face plenty of times. That is all stuff in a controlled environment, and there are rules. That doesn't count for anything when it's on a dark street, with no referee to wave them off.

    I think my posts are coming from knowing how my messed up head works and superimposing it on people in general which is stupid. The field sports gave me the ability to get pumped in situations when I needed it. Without that activity I wouldn't have the ability to call up aggression when I needed it. I too did some amateur Kick boxing/Muai Thai. Just sparring, never had the balls to step into the ring proper. From these experiences when I got into hairy situation, being able to defend myself, not panicking or curling into a terrified ball was seriously important to me. Panicking (as I have done) is what left me with issues. The helplessness is what lingers and what racks you mind and ****s you up. If I had to pick between a broken jaw or lingering shame of not being able to defend myself, I'll take the cracked face every time. Thats my issue but I doubt I'm that unique either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Absolute baseless and ignorant comments not backed up by any evidence other than "I have heard" and "I was told".

    Idiot.

    once again thank you for your mature response. im actually dyslexic myself so tend not to read peer reviewed work like the kind you d find in academic journals but from talking to professionals in the criminal system, i have come to these conclusions. other boards users may point you to such research. thank you. family members have also worked within the criminal system and would also confirm my findings. i would recommend talking to such people and to criminals themselves. i would also recommend talking to parents with kids that suffer with the complex issues in which i have talked about, i.e. autism, adhd, learning disabilities etc etc. its a very interesting world, and extremely complex. feel free to research the peer reviewed journals that are widely available online for more information.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    osarusan wrote: »
    Horrible assault, and I think it is worse than the 'everyday' stuff. The every stuff doesn't even get reported on.

    Also dislike the gender angle here - being a man wouldn't make this any less painful or scary.

    Also dislike the 'playing sport gets you used to rough stuff' angle - I was a local football player and got rough tackles and all that and was also an amateur boxer and obviously got punched in the face plenty of times. That is all stuff in a controlled environment, and there are rules. That doesn't count for anything when it's on a dark street, with no referee to wave them off.

    No-one is trying to say a man wouldn't be scared but are you really saying that you wouldn't be more likely to be able to defend yourself?

    That's the point I'm trying to make really, some people, (maybe both men and women) are able to defend themselves better.

    I suppose I'm coming from the angle of picturing my tiny 23 year old daughter vs my 6ft 3in son and I know he certainly would be much better capable of defending himself. And he has actually had a knife held to his throat for a phone so I'm not condoning attacks on men either.

    This isn't a men vs women issue but if men can't see how it would be more horrific for a young 18 year old girl then maybe therein lies part of the problem.

    I know either of my sons would take a beating rather than have their sister endure one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Advbrd


    Dolbert wrote: »
    Didn't you know? This incident of a young woman being horribly beaten is a great example of sexism against men. Somehow.
    Yeah, it seems everything lately is misandrous. I blame Prometheus.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭GreenFolder2


    To be perfectly honest, we're all vulnerable to attacks like this. A 6'3" guy without proper training isn't much safer than a 5'2" woman.

    We're basically just made out of fiberous jelly. It's not impervious to being attacked with weapons. Being taller or hairier just means you might look more intimidating but it doesn't give you superpowers.

    If someone comes at you with a broken bottle, a knife or worse most normal people will not be able to defend themselves very well.

    The fact that he targeted a woman on her own late at night just shows he's a predatory coward of some sort.

    The issue is that our justice system will allow people to behave like that over and over without much consequence and they can and do destroy people's lives.

    An attack like that should carry a hefty sentence followed by some kind of psychiatric treatment to get to the bottom or why the person is so violent and to try and prevent a recurrence.

    Fines etc are totally inappropriate sentences for unprovoked assaults like this and anything that leaves someone permanently damaged or where the person goes to mame should result in far heavier sentencing.

    How many people end up with facial scars, permanent injuries etc etc because some psychopath decided to randomly attack them ?

    We need to be kept safe, it's not about punishment or vengeance it's about public safety.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    once again thank you for your mature response. im actually dyslexic myself so tend not to read peer reviewed work like the kind you d find in academic journals but from talking to professionals in the criminal system, i have come to these conclusions. other boards users may point you to such research. thank you. family members have also worked within the criminal system and would also confirm my findings. i would recommend talking to such people and to criminals themselves. i would also recommend talking to parents with kids that suffer with the complex issues in which i have talked about, i.e. autism, adhd, learning disabilities etc etc. its a very interesting world, and extremely complex. feel free to research the peer reviewed journals that are widely available online for more information.

    My child is Autistic. Certain traits of his are severely affected by his Autism while others are not. I know his Autism and how it can be unpredictable.

    I don't think you can point at Autism as a potential factor in these attacks. People on the spectrum know full well that this type of behaviour is unacceptable.

    A young girl has been beaten within inchs of her life and some people refuse to believe that those responsible may be just scumbags with no values for human life or common decency.

    Again we have to go looking for mitigating factors to justify these actions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    pilly wrote: »
    No-one is trying to say a man wouldn't be scared but are you really saying that you wouldn't be more likely to be able to defend yourself?

    In terms of defending yourself, sure, strength and experience with fighting will help.

    Maybe I wasn't clear, but I'm not talking about ability to defend yourself - I'm talking about (and disagreeing with) the idea that men would be better able to shrug off an assault, or that it wouldn't have as strong a psychological impact.

    But I don't want to contribute to this become yet another thread on man vs women, so I'll leave it at that. It's a horrible attack, and I hope she recovers physically and psychologically, and that the scumbag(s?) who did it gets caught.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't make them an idiot ?

    No. It's the baseless comments and judgements they make.


  • Registered Users Posts: 999 ✭✭✭fizzypish


    Advbrd wrote: »
    Yeah, it seems everything lately is misandrous. I blame Prometheus.

    The movie? Didn't think it was that bad provided you ignore it has anything to do with the Alien franchise. Fassbender was a robot too....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭ Hayden Scarce Tank


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I'm caught up by this one as it is the latest incident and is particularly brutal. Those involved should be hung from a tree. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities,
    More than likely thses are uneducated scumbags who have no respect for life whether it be male or female. As we know the laws in this country are a complete joke when it comes to murder and assault and the thugs who did this know that if they are ever caught will more than likely get a light sentence and be back on the streets to do it again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    I think we have surrendered to the ultra liberals and pc do gooders though.

    pc do gooders don't exist, neither does pc, and they're is nothing wrong with being a do gooder. the government make the decisians, and they do not wish to fund enforcement of the law. nothing to do with personal computers.
    We are quick enough to protest over water charges etc. The next time we see a lenient sentence for this type of crime we should be put protesting.

    absolutely. protest, make it an election issue the next time they're is an election and the politicians come looking for votes.
    It's the likes of you that need to realise sometimes people who commit these crimes are pure scum and need to be dealt with as such.

    we all ready do. it's the likes of you who throw out sound bites and rant rather then read what was written.
    Root causes my hole.

    not route causes your hole. route causes are very important to deal with the issue.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    We really need to look at some real deterrents to stop scum like this attacking our young men and women.

    I'd be all for 20 years hard labour for a first offence of this magnitude and then throw away the key for anything else. Don't just lock them in a cell with their playstations and TV's.
    Tough prisons and harsh sentences don't reduce serious crime. There's no evidence anywhere in the world that it does.

    This is because people who commit serious crimes don't give much consideration to the penalty.

    It's a fallacy based on the assumption that the reason everyone doesn't go around attacking and murdering eachother is because they don't want to go to jail. Therefore more jail time = less crimes.

    In reality we don't go around murdering and assaulting eachother because we're not scumbags and in general we just want to live our lives in peace.
    I think we have surrendered to the ultra liberals and pc do gooders though.
    The "ultra liberals" in a number of European countries have had to close prisons because they don't have enough offenders to justify keeping them open.

    Meanwhile the countries who abide by hard labour and other draconian methods have more offenders than they can fit in their insanely large number of prisons.
    We need to take back our streets and let everyone feel safe.
    You are safe. The streets have never been safer. Whether you feel safe is irrelevant.

    The very fact that we have a 100-post thread on a single assault goes to show what an exceptional and shocking incident this is. If our streets were crawling with danger, there'd be ten of these incidents a day and nobody talking about them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    My child is Autistic. Certain traits of his are severely affected by his Autism while others are not. I know his Autism and how it can be unpredictable.

    I don't think you can point at Autism as a potential factor in these attacks. People on the spectrum know full well that this type of behaviour is unacceptable.

    A young girl has been beaten within inchs of her life and some people refuse to believe that those responsible may be just scumbags with no values for human life or common decency.

    Again we have to go looking for mitigating factors to justify these actions.

    well then you're more qualified in understanding the complexity of these issues compare to most, i actually suspect im autistic myself.

    thankfully you have a good understanding of your sons condition and im sure your son gets help in dealing with the complex issues that arise from the condition. unfortunately not all those that have autism have access to the resources that you and your family have had in order to deal with these issues, and not all are willing to get help. extremely complex environmental factors could very well be at play in doing so. its extremely important that these issues are dealt with at as early stage as possible, unfortunately that isnt the case in some situations, and this is the potential beginning of serious problems. i was actually only diagnosed with dyslexia a couple of years ago, after studying in our educational system for nearly 30 years. thats a sign of system failure. i suspect im not alone.

    our social systems can fail very badly at dealing with these complex issues, and things like austerity exasperate them. im sure you and your family have had to fight for whatever needs you son requires, more evidence of system failure in dealing with these complex issues. when these issues are diagnosed, the doors should open so to speak, but thats not how reality is as im sure you ve experienced. autism is extremely complex and has a very wide spectrum, affecting people vastly differently.

    when you start to research complex behavioural problems such as sociopathic/psychopathic behavioural problems, you start to realise the complexity of criminality. ive been informed, its simply not possible to rehabilitate some of these people no matter what money and resources are injected into the system.

    of course we need to deal with criminal acts such as this one, and punish offenders. i know a chap that will be sentenced soon for a violent assault, he will go to jail for this as he has previous convictions, and rightfully so, but sadly im not convinced it will actually prevent him from doing it again. there are complex underlying reasons for this, some of which are environmental.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭GreenFolder2


    The issue here needs to he preventing reoffending not necessarily vengeance and punishment.

    We need to keep society safe, not get sucked into a cycle like the US has where it's all about punishing and eye-for-an-eye stuff.

    You need to have severe consequences for something like this but they should include comprehensive analysis of why the offender did this in the first place and how to prevent that happening again.

    Just locking someone up is expensive and if you do nothing to deal with the root cause of the problem, all you've done is mildly inconvenienced him for a few months or a couple of years and achieved nothing.

    Harsh regimes aren't exactly much use either. The US has those and has far, far worse violent crime than we do including a murder rate that's multiple times higher even though they've a death penalty.

    It's time we started taking crime and the causes of crime seriously. It's not happening and the US model is a complete disaster and not one to be looking towards as a solution. It's all about vengeance and not about finding a solution.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Dolbert wrote: »
    Didn't you know? This incident of a young woman being horribly beaten is a great example of sexism against men. Somehow.

    I think it's the sexist comments that are sexist and not the brutal attack.




  • Del.Monte wrote: »
    This is a fallacy.

    Not really. A fallacy is more an error in reasoning. Not really an error in facts.
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I don't know what age you are but I grew up in the 1960s and I assure you that violent attacks were an awful lot less common then.

    Not so sure that is true. But I can see why you might think it is true as our media tends to report such attacks more often and so people get the impression they are happening more often. There is also the cognitive issue where people looking back on their early years remember them as being a lot more golden and rosey than they actually were. The old "kids in my day respected their elders" kinda comment.
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I get my news from the radio and occasionally newspapers so it's not that I'm influenced by social media.

    That would of course depend on how much the news and talking points on the radio are influenced by social media. Which might be a lot more than you suspect. Your influence by social media might therefore be indirect rather than non-existent.
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    People in general are being attacked far more in recent years
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Your proof of this please and not dragging up stats from the 1840/50s

    It seems to me the original claim was yours - so the burden of proof lies with you not with the person suggesting you are wrong.

    I am certainly open minded about which direction the statistics show it going and I genuinely do not know. So I would love to see them. But certainly asserting they are going up - but then demanding evidence from someone who asserts the opposite without having offered any of your own - is not really offering a level playing field.

    As a helpful warning I would be careful to check that whatever statistics you offer account for variation in population though. Do not make the error of showing that violent crime was up 5% between two decades while ignoring that the population was up 10% for example.
    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I haven't the time or energy to start a thread on every attack.

    Exactly. And the police and media do not have the time and resources to throw "everything" at a single case either. Like the comment that this should be on the front page until the perpetrators are caught - what about all the other people assaulted in that time? Where do they go while the front page and "everything" the police have are thrown at a single case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,226 ✭✭✭joeysoap


    Name and shame and lock them away for good when found

    "Your Honour my client had a difficult upbringing, is having marriage difficulties and has a problem with drugs and drink.

    My client unfortunately fell in with a wrong crowd and this had a bad influence on him. Since the incident he has been receiving councilling and has attended addiction clinics.

    My client has drink taken on the night and unfortunately has no recollection of the incident

    His partner who is the mother of his child has promised to give him a second chance and I would ask your honour not to consider a custodial sentence "

    Perm one from 4, coupled with a suspended sentence and you be in any court in the country on a weekly basis


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I don't know how to combat or prevent disgusting assaults like this because I have no insight into the willpower it would take to do this. No part of me no matter how hidden could do this to someone. It's not poverty, it's not inequality or bad home life because I had all and wouldn't have it in me to do that to anyone. I cannot fathom what punishment would deter such people whose conscience didn't.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    On rte radio 1 now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Advbrd


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I don't know how to combat or prevent disgusting assaults like this because I have no insight into the willpower it would take to do this. No part of me no matter how hidden could do this to someone. It's not poverty, it's not inequality or bad home life because I had all and wouldn't have it in me to do that to anyone. I cannot fathom what punishment would deter such people whose conscience didn't.

    I can think of one.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    At a briefing today, Superintendent Gerry Wall named the victim as Kym Owens from Castleblaney in Co Monaghan.


    May kym owens get the help and support she needs to get through this terrible ordeal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    @ Darrell Itchy Wisecrack

    Despite many years and identities on Boards I have never learnt how to multi-quote or respond to same and in any event have little more to say on the matter.




  • Del.Monte wrote: »
    @ Darrell Itchy Wisecrack

    Despite many years and identities on Boards I have never learnt how to multi-quote or respond to same and in any event have little more to say on the matter.

    A pity as I was genuinely interested to see what the statistics actually say on whether violent crime is up or down. So I hoped you were able to evidence your claim.

    I know there have been books recently - like "the better angels of our nature" showing that globally these kind of crimes are down. So I was interested to see how Ireland fared against those general trends.

    Multi quote is not actually required to reply to me. But if it helps - it is remarkably easy. When you hit REPLY on someones post you get something that looks like the following:
    (QUOTE=Del.Monte;101742611)
    A paragraph here.

    Another paragraph here.

    A final Paragraph here.
    (/QUOTE)

    And to change that single quote into a multi quote you just have to copy and paste the first and last line like follows:
    (QUOTE=Del.Monte;101742611)
    A paragraph here.
    (/QUOTE)

    (QUOTE=Del.Monte;101742611)
    Another paragraph here.
    (/QUOTE)

    (QUOTE=Del.Monte;101742611)
    A final Paragraph here.
    (/QUOTE)

    Hope that helps.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I think that gender is important as in times gone by attacking old people, women and children tended to be beyond the pale but not these days. What the hell have local councillors to do with it? The local Gardai...God help us, is that the extent of it? I suppose it will be on Crimecall in six months time .. where we you six months ago on such and such a date and did you see a silver coloured car acting suspiciously....That's why things are running out of control in this country and it's only going to get worse.

    If I had the money that some of our high flyers have I would feel morally obliged to put up a large reward for information leading to a successful conviction in this case. As for hoping it won't happen again, give me patience - is there anything to be said for another mass!

    It does make it a more cowardly act to assault a woman, but to claim it should be treated as the #1 and only priority for the Gards and somewhat media too... you're joking, right?

    We live in a society where equality is supposed to be a central point - and that should mean equal protections to men who are assaulted as are provided to women. The people within society will surely judge assault on a woman in a less favourable light for obvious reason, but the actual laws and authorities should treat them fair and equal on their own merits.

    Following the line of logic you are undertaking to it's logical conclusion would also mean that women should be automatically disqualified from jobs involving physical exertion, strength, athleticism, etc by default due to being women. Much like with how the culprit(s) will be viewed worse for assaulting a women, a potential employer would view a woman in a less favourable light for a job in an area like construction, but it does not mean all women would be unable to compete (I've known a few women who would make sh*t of the vast majority of guys in the gym) and is not, nor should not be something that the authorities and laws dictate. Both would equate to gender discrimination.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    @ Darrell Itchy Wisecrack

    Despite many years and identities on Boards I have never learnt how to multi-quote or respond to same and in any event have little more to say on the matter.

    Think you needed a sarcasm face in there. :D:D

    Or just say it straight out, no-one wants to read someone's answer to multi-quotes! They are usually irrelevant and boring.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Advbrd


    pilly wrote: »
    Think you needed a sarcasm face in there. :D:D

    Or just say it straight out, no-one wants to read someone's answer to multi-quotes! They are usually irrelevant and boring.

    Ah now, Tax has kept me entertained over the years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,034 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Most important thing is this poor girl gets better asap and my heart goes out to parents and family

    This story having read more about it makes me angry. I hope when they are caught they are named and picture everywhere. Dont care what age they are


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Dolbert


    Heard on RTÉ news that Gardaí are exploring the possibility that someone may have followed her off the bus. Scary stuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭_Jamie_


    sullivlo wrote: »
    Don't see why her gender is relevant to the story. It would be horrific for it to happen to anyone, regardless of their gender.

    TBH, I'm not sure if only severely attacked women get this kind of media attention. I've certainly heard of some really vicious assaults on men in the media, extensively reported on down the years. I think particularly sever assaults always get attention (rightfully), no matter the gender.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    It's scary. Didn't seem like the motive was robbery or sexual so was it personal or did some random nutcase decide she was an easy target. Very worrying for the students and their families. I hope they catch whatever POS did it and that she recovers.


This discussion has been closed.
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