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Carlow Town Prohibition of Begging Bye-Laws 2018

  • 20-10-2018 7:50pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭


    Great news!

    Begging bye-laws for Carlow Town have been passed by members of the Municipal District in order to tackle the "professional and aggressive begging" that has become a regular feature in the town.




    The "Carlow Town Prohibition of Begging Bye-Laws 2018" were passed by a majority vote on Friday with Cllr Jim Deane voting against the proposal as the law "prevents a person seeking help".
    The passing of the bye-laws means it shall be unlawful for any person or persons to beg in any public place in Carlow Town.
    A public place means any public road and any street, road or other place to which the public have access whether as of right, or with permission and whether subject to, or free of charge.
    Speaking at the monthly MD meeting, Cllr Walter Lacey welcomed the bye-laws saying that there was "professional begging going on in Carlow Town" and people were making a day's or a week's wages.
    Cllr Jim Deane said under the bye-laws if a person says, "Excuse me, please, can you help me? They are committing an offence. This is stopping somebody looking for help. We are criminalising that person."
    However Cllr Ken Murnane interjected and said Gardaí have advised they would use their discretion and existing laws for aggressive begging under the Public Order Act were not satisfactory.
    Senior Executive Officer at the Council, Eamonn Brophy, described an incident where a beggar was standing outside the door of a car looking for money where the occupant hadn't even gotten out of the vehicle.
    He detailed another incident he witnessed where a woman was approached three times by the same person over 200m. Mr Brophy added that Gardaí will exercise common sense in genuine cases.
    Cllr Will Paton, who wrote the bye-laws, said aggressive begging was a major issue and "people were sick and tired of being harassed" and "businesses were fed up of it too".
    Cllr Brian O'Donoghue said it's too easy to get on a train and land up in Carlow and "spend the day working, aka, begging, and potentially make a day's wages".
    Meanwhile Cllr John Pender said the public feel threatened by certain beggars and welcomed the bye-laws.
    The draft begging bye-laws were then put to the members and were passed by a majority vote.
    A person who contravenes a provision of the bye-law shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €1,900.
    Where a person is convicted of the offence and there is a continuation by him or her of the offence after his or her conviction he or she shall be guilty of a further offence on every day the continuation continues and on each such offence shall be liable on conviction to a fine of not exceeding €129 for each day on which the offence is so continued.



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Nokia6230i


    Am baffled by Cllr. Jim Deanes stance on the issue.

    Really hope the "Fines Officer" (Maor Trachtála/Traffic Warden equivalent) doesn't use his or her discretion; otherwise the bye-laws won't be worth a.

    Even the less intimidating (and I'm not naming names here but there's two I'm thinking of) will have to desist; if discretion were used with them then the Beggars Union'd be revolting.

    Am a bit baffled by Cathaoirleach saying people're getting train to here (from, presumably, Waterford, Kilkenny, Athy or Dublin?) to beg; my experience is they're all locals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,279 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    How will this actually work and who will police it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭Starfleet Student


    How will this actually work and who will police it?




    Not sure it doesnt look like anyone at the moment anyway as the same faces are still begging all over the town.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Nokia6230i


    Not sure it doesnt look like anyone at the moment anyway as the same faces are still begging all over the town.

    It hasn't officially kicked in yet; Saturday the 1st of December's beginning of it.

    Totally understand cynicism though; will there be a Fines Officer as it were like a Maor Tráchatala?

    Or will the next JPC be hearing the same old tired complaints and generic "something must be done" comments.

    Ultimately though it's about changing the behaviour of their donors; people're too giving without asking questions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Nokia6230i wrote: »
    It hasn't officially kicked in yet; Saturday the 1st of December's beginning of it.

    Totally understand cynicism though; will there be a Fines Officer as it were like a Maor Tráchatala?

    Or will the next JPC be hearing the same old tired complaints and generic "something must be done" comments.

    Ultimately though it's about changing the behaviour of their donors; people're too giving without asking questions.

    Are fines a discouragement for people who are begging? I doubt it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭Lord Derpington


    Nokia6230i;108483264
    Ultimately though it's about changing the behaviour of their donors; people're too giving without asking questions.
    While this behavior may be the encouraging the act of begging, the generosity and perhaps implied naivety of the Carlow people is not something that should a priority to change. There are many other towns and counties that would welcome the same caring nature. Removing those who are abusing the generosity should be the priority, allowing the support to go those that truly need it. Which you would have to imagine is the intent of this by-law given the "common sense in genuine cases" attitude expressed towards enforcement.


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