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US Open 2018

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Women best of 5.....what a shuddering thought!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Don’t worry man....doubt you’ll ever have to suffer such a terrifying prospect. Sure over 5 sets the hormones would just go crazy...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    I've been looking at the coverage of the Serena incident carefully and there's really a lot of misinformation. Here's a few myths I've noticed.

    Myth 1:
    Ramos calling Serena on coaching was unnecessary. It is often unpunished and he wouldn't have done it had it been a men's match.

    Firstly, Ramos has called men on coaching and other things so forget about that angle straight away. Secondly, the reason this act of coaching was called where many others aren't is because it was so blatant. Coaching is a very hard thing to call. You see a player's coach shouting something but you can't hear what he says. You hear an instruction but you can't tell if it was the coach who said it or a member of the audience or even what player it is directed at. Or you see a coach scratch his nose and you think that might be a coded message but how can you know? So a lot of coaching goes unpunished. However, Patrick Mouratoglou is such a dense eegit that he blatantly made a very clear, unsubtle hand gesture that everyone in the stadium could see was clearly an instruction to Serena to move closer up to the baseline. Ramos couldn't miss it or misinterpret it so it was incumbent on him to punish it and he did. Serena says she didn't see it but the way Mouratoglu nods after it in affirmation makes me think she did and he was acknowledging her. Anyway, it doesn't matter if she saw it or not. If a coach coaches, it's a violation against the player. And he did so, he even admitted it.

    Myth 2:
    Taking a whole game off Serena was excessive punishment. Men have often said worse to umpires and not received such a harsh penalty.

    Firstly, I don't remember too often anybody accusing an umpire of being a thief. She may not have been swearing but she accused Ramos of cheating basically. It was a sustained bout of abuse that merited a violation. And here's the thing: it was her third violation. Her first was for coaching and she got a warning. Second violation was for racket abuse and she received a point penalty. Third violation was her abuse of the umpire and so she received a game penalty, not because the abuse was particularly bad but because it was her third violation and that is the prescribed penalty for a third violation. He didn't say, "I'm not having this, I'm gonna take a whole game off her here." He simply followed the rulebook and assigned the appropriate penalty for someone that has repeatedly violated the rules of the game. Had it been her first violation, he would have just warned her without instating a point or game penalty.

    Myth 3:
    Serena was making a stand for feminism and/or antiracism as she has done throughout her career.

    Serena's behaviour was no surprise to anyone who regularly follows tennis. In 2009, she threatened to shove a f*cking ball down the f*ucking throat of a female lineswoman who was also a woman of colour. Was she fighting for feminism or against racism then? In 2011 she lambasted a female umpire for calling a point against her for shouting in the middle of a point. She told the umpire she was "ugly inside". Maybe, Serena Williams does care about these issues but it is far more logical to see her actions on Saturday as nothing more than a continuation of her previous manner of behaving when she is either losing or is made to adhere to the rules. In other words, acting out like this is what she does and I actually think it incredibly uncouth that she would co-opt such important social issues to help promote her personal agenda. It reminds me of when John Walters was clamped in Dun Loaghaire because he was 16 minutes late back to his car and he kicked up such a stink he co-opted residents' frustrations with the parking situation (a genuine issue) and painted himself as a kind of martyr to this cause. He wasn't, he was just late back to his car and was clamped and he should have just admitted that just like Serena Williams should admit that she behaved abominably towards Carlos Ramos and Naomi Osaka and apologise to both of them. Then she can pursue her feminism and anti-racism separately and not just take them up when her ego is poked and she wants to use them as battering rams against the rules.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Her labeling that man a thief really is disgraceful, and it is this more than anything that she needs pulling up on.


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    The WTA statements released after the final were pathetic.

    41298649_10157737299916102_3283302356610973696_n.png?_nc_cat=1&oh=b73b76c6f4f3d41b24c4c0f04eea2640&oe=5C3283B2

    And again

    41430483_10157740846881102_3617795341631356928_n.png?_nc_cat=0&oh=6801cab4deac1984c84ea808fa43d248&oe=5C2CEC52

    The ITF released one in response yesterday, but it was very much a case of far too little, far too late imo. This is a token statement at best.

    Dmvz19hXsAEiSq-.jpg:large

    The media reaction is even more idiotic. Take this insane article, and the already mentioned Sally Jenkins one published in the Washington Post. Clearly, written by people who didn't watch the match and know nothing about tennis.

    Are Americans so patriotic that they *literally* think they're above the rules, and they shouldn't apply to them? I mean I'd be slow to tar everyone with the same brush, but when they're seemingly completely incapable of any form of objectivity, I don't know.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    I thought the ITF statement was very good.

    Martina Navratilova wrote about Serena today. Her article was excellent. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/martina-navratilova-serena-williams-us-open.html


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    I haven't yet read Martina Navratilova's response but it's good to hear she took a more measured approach. Tennis.com wrote an excellent, balanced article as well and remain among the few American sources to actually call Serena out for what she did.

    I imagine none of the official bodies will say anything more about it until the drama dies down, but it'll be interesting to see what the next move will be. What male umpire will want to chair a Serena final from now on, knowing what could happen if they simply enforce the rules? And will the rules even be enforced for Serena any more, or will she simply be able to do as she pleases? I hope all the umpires are sticking together on this, how can they reasonably be expected to carry out their duties knowing what can happen if they do? Seems like a lose-lose situation. Interesting times ahead.

    Another point, in all this I must say I'm so, so disappointed in both the WTA and Billie Jean King. The WTA have just make themselves look stupid, and have simply tried to create this 'Them Vs. Us' narrative, the only purpose of which is to create division. Which in itself is extremely rich, given how much the WTA has over the years fought to be as respected and highly regarded as their male peers. And I'm even more disappointed in BJK, a woman who has been a feminist trailblazer in the sport, jumping on this nonsensical sexist narrative that she full well knows is complete bollocks. So many people have left themselves down in the last few days, and the WTA, BJK and Serena herself have gone way, way down in my estimation.


  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,259 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Mousewar wrote: »
    I thought the ITF statement was very good.

    Martina Navratilova wrote about Serena today. Her article was excellent. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/martina-navratilova-serena-williams-us-open.html

    As I said, with just two small paragraphs it all felt a bit token to me. Perhaps they were trying not to fan any flames, but they should've comprehensively rejected the nonsensical claims of sexism and put the onus back on the player to behave rather than the umpire to turn a blind eye. Maybe they said as much or as little as they reasonably could be expected to at the time, but, compared to what Carlos Ramos has had to endure the last few days, it didn't feel like enough to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭Mousewar


    As I said, with just two small paragraphs it all felt a bit token to me. Perhaps they were trying not to fan any flames, but they should've comprehensively rejected the nonsensical claims of sexism and put the onus back on the player to behave rather than the umpire to turn a blind eye. Maybe they said as much or as little as they reasonably could be expected to at the time, but, compared to what Carlos Ramos has had to endure the last few days, it didn't feel like enough to me.

    I thought it was quite a robust and unequivocal defence of Ramos myself. I don't think they could reasonably be expected to criticise the player. And coming after that farcical WTA statement it was a nice surprise. I really do hope Ramos' career is unaffected by this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 502 ✭✭✭Pero_Bueno


    walshb wrote: »
    Women best of 5.....what a shuddering thought!

    I know , can you imagine all the 0/6 6/0 0/6 6/0 scorelines ... :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Great piece by Ewan McKenna here:

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/tennis/ewan-mackenna-forget-womens-rights-all-that-serena-was-campaigning-for-at-the-us-open-is-special-treatment-37305939.html

    Not quite as brilliant as Mousewar's excellent post above, but the best thing I've read in the media anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Super piece by McKenna

    "A problem here is most people don't know much about women's tennis, and we know this because dwindling numbers and interest have hurt the sport financially. It's on the ropes, clinging to her name and therefore indulging her ego"

    very true, and it shouldn't come as any bit of a surprise the WTA are backing her on this. Outside of diehard tennis fans, if you were to ask a random sample of people to name 5 women's tennis players, absolutely f-all would get past the Williams sisters and Sharapova - who has well and truly had her day and is slipping well out of public consciousness herself.

    The sport needs Williams quite frankly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 762 ✭✭✭Pistachios & cream


    Ramos has been handed the David cup clash of Croatia v USA so the ITF is clearly standing by him. No hiding him away til it all dies down which I’m delighted by.

    Davis cups tend to be rowdy affairs so this should be interesting


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,575 ✭✭✭✭josip


    jr86 wrote: »
    ...
    The sport needs Williams quite frankly.


    No sport needs that.

    ('that' refers to the US Open behaviour)


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    jr86 wrote: »
    The sport needs Williams quite frankly.

    I never got that vibe or buzz. For me she has no charisma, and her style of play is rotten...Basic power, and some athleticism.......hey, has worked well, no doubt. But I'd never consider saving any of my time to watch her....


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,936 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    But you're a tennis fan. Non tennis fans will tune in to see big names rather than exciting matches, and she's definitely one of those.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    That's fine but style of play matters pretty much zero to casual viewers. It's the casual viewers and supporters that the WTA and ATP rely on most to generate high attendances and ratings, not regular followers like yourself. There simply aren't enough tennis diehards out there to fill arenas year round

    At the end of the day it is still mainly a niche sport which only captures widespread public appeal 2 out of 52 weeks a year, and modest public appeal 8 out of 52.

    When the Williams's retire attendances and ratings will drop heavily for the WTA. I recall a flurry of activity of fans looking to offload tickets for the Vinci pennetta US Open final a few years ago, when Serena was shocked in the semis


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,495 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    jr86 wrote: »

    When the Williams's retire attendances and ratings will drop heavily for the WTA. I recall a flurry of activity of fans looking to offload tickets for the Vinci pennetta US Open final a few years ago, when Serena was shocked in the semis

    Wasn't that because it was her trying to win the calendar slam? That is to be expected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Niles Crane


    Horrific sexism on display in this weekends David Cup tie between Croatia and USA as Carlos Ramos issued a code violation to Marin Cilic after he slammed his racquet into the ground.

    Disgraceful from Ramos however Cilic does not have any children so maybe he deserved his punishment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Horrific sexism on display in this weekends David Cup tie between Croatia and USA as Carlos Ramos issued a code violation to Marin Cilic after he slammed his racquet into the ground.

    Disgraceful from Ramos however Cilic does not have any children so maybe he deserved his punishment.

    He’s not black or a woman either so he should have known he was on sticky ground even as he lifted that racquet over his silly vacant head with a view to destroying it so sulkily...


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