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Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes

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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I like the Dublin coach service as it go stright to the city centre I have also heard that Dublin coach might have a new owner

    Haven't heard anything myself - if that's based on the fact that there's another company in the group called Moorhill Capital that have had some of the assets to transfered, then you ought to know that this company has been around for over three years and happens to have the same directors as the other companies.

    My biggest problem with Dublin Coach is how they operate a two tier service, the well used state of their fleet over the past few years and the fines that the Road Safety Authority has handed to them in the past.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭belfast stephen


    devnull wrote: »
    Haven't heard anything myself - if that's based on the fact that there's another company in the group called Moorhill Capital that have had some of the assets to transfered, then you ought to know that this company has been around for over three years and happens to have the same directors as the other companies.

    My biggest problem with Dublin Coach is how they operate a two tier service, the well used state of their fleet over the past few years and the fines that the Road Safety Authority has handed to them in the past.

    It was a member of D.C staff who told me and it all the talk of the company at the moment


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    It was a member of D.C staff who told me and it all the talk of the company at the moment

    Must be something I haven't heard about then, nothing has changed yet according to cro.ie


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    An excellent source has told me that that the livery for Dublin Express will be a navy/dark blue coach with an airplane logo at the rear. Mercedes is said to be the coach mark of choice.

    I'm also hearing that Smithfield is likely to be served in addition to previously discussed areas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    devnull wrote: »
    An excellent source has told me that that the livery for Dublin Express will be a navy/dark blue coach with an airplane logo at the rear. Mercedes is said to be the coach mark of choice.

    This would fit with what I saw on the Irish Road Passenger Transport Forum, someone’s seen a bunch of new Mercedes for Bernard Kavanagh all in a navy paint job!


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Today's moves of Translink and Bus Eireann services at Dublin Airport has not gone ahead.

    It is now provisional that the moves will take place this evening / tomorrow morning at 00:30 instead.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    coylemj wrote: »
    There will be fun outside T2 on March 3rd if Aircoach are still using that stop to pick up passengers and Dublin Express start running a service from there.

    Aircoach say they will be moving to zone 11 on March 4th, the Dublin Express website says they are commencing their service on March 3rd. Looks like a one day overlap to me.

    Aircoach have now confirmed that their changes will be happening from 3rd March.

    501766.jpg


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    CONFIRMED
    It has been confirmed that National Express will be starting three as yet undefined new 24 hour routes serving Dublin City from Dublin Airport, operated under the brand of Dublin Express, from 3rd March 2020.

    The new services will depart from directly outside the front door of both Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 at Dublin Airport, the spots which are currently occupied by Aircoach.

    The services will be operated by Bernard Kavanagh on behalf of National Express. It is understood that the routes will be three of those which Express Bus were granted licenses for (see first page)

    It is expected this phase will be the first of several phases of rolling out a further extended network.

    Further information to follow later...


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    First three National Express routes expected to be
    1) Dublin Airport T1 -> Dubin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay -> Smithfield
    2) Dublin Airport T1 -> Dublin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay
    3) Dublin Airport T1 -> Dublin Airport T2 -> Custom House Quay -> Merrion Square

    A flat fare structure is highly likely and they will be undercutting both Aircoach and Airlink, no doubt.

    If what I have heard is correct you will be strongly advised not to carry any heavy items in your pocket as you will only need something lighter when it comes to being allowed to board the coach after running through passport control :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    devnull wrote: »
    Aircoach have now confirmed that their changes will be happening from 3rd March.

    'Confirmed' - where? Their FAQ still says that they're moving on March 4th.

    https://www.aircoach.ie/faqs

    I appreciate they may have responded to a direct query from you and that's fine but they're inabilty to communicate changes to their sevices is nothing short of epic.

    They modified the Greystones (702) timetable in January 2017 but they never updated the 702 timetable in their mobile app. Despite multiple pokes from me to their Twitter account.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    coylemj wrote: »
    'Confirmed' - where? Their FAQ still says that they're moving on March 4th.

    https://www.aircoach.ie/faqs

    I appreciate they may have responded to a direct query from you and that's fine but they're inabilty to communicate changes to their sevices is nothing short of epic.

    They modified the Greystones (702) timetable in January 2017 but they never updated the 702 timetable in their mobile app. Despite multiple pokes from me to their Twitter account.

    It was on their Facebook page earlier, but it seems to have been removed now.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    JJ Kavanagh have now confirmed that they are moving to the coach park, effective 4th February 2020, from their existing stops in Zone 12 and 14.

    501788.png


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,350 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    p_haugh wrote: »
    This would fit with what I saw on the Irish Road Passenger Transport Forum, someone’s seen a bunch of new Mercedes for Bernard Kavanagh all in a navy paint job!

    So brand new Merc Tourismo's on these routes! Those would be quite a step up in quality for the Plaxton Panthers used by Aircoach these days, this could be very painful for them!

    Sort of surprising, NX usually use Caetano Levante's in the UK. However if Bernard Kavangh actually own the coaches, then the Merc's probably make more sense for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Brian CivilEng


    Going by that graphic JJ Kavanagh expect people to walk along the road from T2, rather than the much more direct footpath for some reason.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    bk wrote: »
    So brand new Merc Tourismo's on these routes! Those would be quite a step up in quality for the Plaxton Panthers used by Aircoach these days, this could be very painful for them!

    The word is there are at least some brand new Mercs, yes.

    The short sighted nature of First's investment in the Panthers and obsession over cutting costs could well be coming back to haunt then. When they invested in them I felt they betrayed the brand values a little bit which was always a bit of luxury, ahead of the rest, extra leg-room, high class seats etc in the Joncks and the Setras.

    When Aircoach first came to the market they postioned themselves as being more than just a regular airport coach operator and that is how they built the company by offering a bit of luxury, noticing a gap in the market that they can take advantage of to drum up a customer base.

    Today there are some interesting quotes in the press
    https://extra.ie/2020/02/03/business/irish/national-express-dublin-airport
    Customers will be able to track their coach with real time information and buy tickets at the airport with contactless card payments. Coaches will be fitted with reclining leather seats, extra legroom, free Wi-Fi and charging sockets.

    Does that remind you of anyone from a few years ago? ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    devnull wrote: »
    It was on their Facebook page earlier, but it seems to have been removed now.

    Maybe they took it down for a 'review' after someone pointed out to them that (per the official map of the bus zones) zone 11 is not the first zone you meet after you walk through the car park. Bit of artistic licence taken in that graphic. Zone 9 is beside Zone 11 and is closer to T1.

    And if you didn't know better, you might assume that to get to the Aircoach from T2, you first have to walk to T1.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    coylemj wrote: »
    Maybe they took it down for a 'review' after someone pointed out to them that (per the official map of the bus zones) zone 11 is not the first zone you meet after you walk through the car park. Bit of artistic licence taken in that graphic. Zone 9 is beside Zone 11 and is closer to T1.

    It's not showing it as the first zone you meet, it's showing the second.

    The first bunch of zones, for the car park shuttles are right along the edge of the pavement (Zone 9 to the right and Zone 8 to the left) directly outside the car park building. The drawing is showing the stops which are over the first road after this -

    Zone 10 is to the left after going over the first road and zone 11 to the right - note some zones have more than one bus stop and shelter in them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    coylemj wrote: »
    So good you had to repost it?
    The joys of the mobile boards site, accidentally went back a page and it reposted it automatically


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    devnull wrote: »
    It's not showing it as the first zone you meet, it's showing the second.

    It's the first marked zone on the right. The space where zone 9 exists is extremely narrow on that diagram and not marked as anything, it looks like a narrow alley where you'd dump your baggage trolley. Anyone looking at that diagram would figure that the Aircoach stop is first on the right when you come out of the car park.

    Zone 9 should be flagged to show that there is another bus stop between Aircoach and the car park building. I think it's misleading, that's all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Any idea of frequencies?

    IMHO I don't like the proposed fragmentation of routes (Smithfield, Custom House Quay, Merrion Sq). If the NTA is behind this, consideration should be given to what Dublin's public transport 'system' already offers, and these routes should fall into that. Just give me a system whereby I can get the frequent bus route that goes by my house to a stop served by a frequent, express bus route to that serves the Airport.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    donvito99 wrote: »
    IMHO I don't like the proposed fragmentation of routes (Smithfield, Custom House Quay, Merrion Sq).

    How do you feel about the existing fragmentation of Dublin Bus, Aircoach etc. routes?
    donvito99 wrote: »
    Just give me a system whereby I can get the frequent bus route that goes by my house to a stop served by a frequent, express bus route to that serves the Airport.

    We'd all like that but you have to bear in mind that people need to get to and from the airport when other services like Dublin Bus are not running.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    coylemj wrote: »
    How do you feel about the existing fragmentation of Dublin Bus, Aircoach etc. routes?

    I'm not as concerned with Aircoach as I would be with Dublin Bus who currently run approx 4 buses an hour on the 747 and 2 on the 757. One 10 minute bus service intersecting with the other main spines in the City Center would be a more attractive option, to me at least. That would require overhaul of the routings, stops and termini of all bus routes in the City Centre, which would be hugely beneficial regardless.
    We'd all like that but you have to bear in mind that people need to get to and from the airport when other services like Dublin Bus are not running.

    The 41 is now a 24 hour service via the Airport, is it not?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    coylemj wrote: »
    It's the first marked zone on the right. The space where zone 9 exists is extremely narrow on that diagram and not marked as anything, it looks like a narrow alley where you'd dump your baggage trolley. Anyone looking at that diagram would figure that the Aircoach stop is first on the right when you come out of the car park.

    Zone 9 should be flagged to show that there is another bus stop between Aircoach and the car park building. I think it's misleading, that's all.

    It's an Aircoach map, why would they mark other zones? None of the other operators in their maps are marking other peoples zones either. Besides, the light blue path and the navy road is the same thickness pretty much for each in the diagram, this really is a non issue in my book.
    donvito99 wrote: »
    Any idea of frequencies?
    Nothing has been confirmed from National Express yet in regard to frequencies other than they will be running 24 hours a day and will be of good frequency.
    IMHO I don't like the proposed fragmentation of routes (Smithfield, Custom House Quay, Merrion Sq). If the NTA is behind this, consideration should be given to what Dublin's public transport 'system' already offers, and these routes should fall into that.

    The reason you have those three routes a little strange like that, if it doesn't change (since the route maps have been taken off the TFI Journey Planner now) is probably down to the presence of other commercial operators serving some of those areas from Dublin Airport on their existing commercial routes and the requirements of the licensing regulations in relation to time separation and avoiding head to head running - the kind of thing we've seen on the Belfast route where there were 4 buses in 15 minutes and then none for 45 minutes.

    I would suggest there will be changes ahead in the Dublin Airport bus market in general in the next few months because the entry of a well resourced and run operator like National Express will give Aircoach in particular something serious to chew over and I would be very surprised if by the end of the year a lot hasn't changed in the airport bus market. I wouldn't rule out some consolidation in the general Irish Bus and Coach market either.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,350 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I don't think I've ever been to any airport in Europe that didn't have but multiple local routes (cheaper, slower, stopping service) and multiple fast, direct coach services. It is pretty much the norm for more European airports.

    There is plenty of room in the market for both. While you and I as people living in Dublin would like a service that gets us home, most visiting tourists don't care, they want services that gets them comfortably into town or their hotel fast. Same as most of us want when we go abroad.

    I agree completely that there should be a lot more PSO routes serving the airport too. And of course interconnection with the wider Dublin Bus network, of course that is what BusConnects promises, 90 minute tickets, orbital routes, easy transfers, etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    bk wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever been to any airport in Europe that didn't have but multiple local routes (cheaper, slower, stopping service) and multiple fast, direct coach services. It is pretty much the norm for more European airports.

    There is plenty of room in the market for both. While you and I as people living in Dublin would like a service that gets us home, most visiting tourists don't care, they want services that gets them comfortably into town or their hotel fast. Same as most of us want when we go abroad.

    I agree completely that there should be a lot more PSO routes serving the airport too. And of course interconnection with the wider Dublin Bus network, of course that is what BusConnects promises, 90 minute tickets, orbital routes, easy transfers, etc.

    Ideally, the distribution and routing of regular Dublin Bus routes across the city centre should be such that a tourist would get off the 747 at say Eden Quay and be able to easily identify what bus spine they can change to to bring them to the door of their accommodation. And just to add, I'm not so sure Bus Connects offers that in its current guise in the City Centre.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Are they going via the port tunnel or via Santry? Will also be interesting to see what rout they take through town to get from the docklands (if they go via the tunnel) to Smithfield/Merrion Square.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    CityLink have now confirmed the changes to where their services are stopping at Dublin Airport with effect from Tuesday.

    CityLink / EirEagle services to Galway
    These services will now depart from Zone 13

    Da_to_Galway_small637163558554053790.jpg

    CityLink / EirEagle services to Limerick
    These services will now depart from Zone 12

    Da_to_Lim_small637163559918746144.jpg


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    The top post has now been updated with the latest information.

    Dublin Airport have now issued a revised transport zones map to reflect todays changes, which can be found below. Note that this map is only valid until 3rd March 2020 when the second phase of changes occur.

    bus_mapa891e54fd31b4d12a5e2a46dce2599b3.png?sfvrsn=3a01996e_2


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    National Express have now officially announced Dublin Express
    https://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/newsmedia/news-across-the-group/2020/national-express-coach-expands-abroad-for-the-first-time/
    National Express Coach has expanded its network of scheduled airport coach services outside of the UK with a contract award in Ireland.

    The UK’s largest coach operator has secured the deal to run a high-frequency, cross-city network with Ireland-based Bernard Kavanagh Coaches operating the service on their behalf.

    At launch in March, ‘Dublin Express’ will run three routes up to 24 hours a day between Dublin Airport and Dublin City Centre. A phased expansion of the network will see additional services being added to connect more locations across the city and increase the frequency of airport connections.

    John Boughton, managing director of National Express Ireland, commented: “Dublin Express will transform what it means to ride an airport service in the Irish capital.

    “We currently run 1,100 airport services every day on a 24-hour basis direct to the terminal for all major UK airports including Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, Heathrow and Manchester. And as Ireland’s largest private coach operator, we have previously worked with Bernard Kavanagh Coaches to operate Irish services.

    “Bringing together this collective experience, local knowledge and expertise as Dublin Express will allow us to provide a much enhanced experience at a great price.”


    Dublin Airport managing director Vincent Harrison said that he was delighted to see an expansion of coach and bus services to and from the airport: “We are very focussed on improving public transport options to Dublin Airport for both passengers and airport-based employees, and we specifically sought coach and bus providers who would expand the network, both in terms of the hours of operation and the route choice.”

    Passengers will benefit from a fleet of modern and efficient coaches that meet the latest standards for engine emissions (Euro VI). An array of safety and technology features will provide customers with an unrivalled experience, including reclining leather seats, extra legroom, free wifi and charging sockets. The latest in technology will provide customers with real-time information to track their coach, and easy booking and payment with tap-and-go, contactless ticketing at the airport and an array of digital and mobile channels in multiple languages.

    Managing director Bernard Kavanagh, commented: "We have a long-standing, strong relationship with National Express. We look forward to building on this in 2020 with the new Dublin Express service."

    For more information, visit www.dublinexpress.ie


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,292 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    devnull wrote: »
    Dublin Airport have now issued a revised transport zones map to reflect todays changes, which can be found below. Note that this map is only valid until 3rd March 2020 when the second phase of changes occur.

    This DAA page has links for the various bus services to/from the airport and has a link to the map of the bus zones which devnull posted above and which will probably be updated as things develop.

    https://www.dublinairport.com/to-from-the-airport/by-bus


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