Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy railway

ohographite · 17-11-2019 11:59pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You could count on one hand and prehaps two on a good day with a cost figure of €250,000 a year or €1,000 a day..

In fairness, that train was extremely slow, because it stopped in all of the stations between Ballybrophy and Heuston as well.
I don't think the low usage of that train is a reason to reject upgrading the Nenagh line because it was so slow that I don't think it was attractive to most potential passengers.

thomond2006 · 18-11-2019 2:28pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ballybrophy - a godforsaken place in the middle of nowhere.

I used to pass by it regularly. It made me cold

I raise you Limerick Junction.

Del.Monte · 18-11-2019 2:39pm

Limerick Junction

A quiet place amongst the pines,
a pub, a shop,
two railway lines.

Anon.

Jamie2k9 · 18-11-2019 11:58pm

ohographite wrote: »

In fairness, that train was extremely slow, because it stopped in all of the stations between Ballybrophy and Heuston as well.
I don't think the low usage of that train is a reason to reject upgrading the Nenagh line because it was so slow that I don't think it was attractive to most potential passengers.

I don't believe it was all stations however you could never have justified a business case to run non stop during the bussiest hour of the morning. You could have maybe dropped one or two but 6 minutes isn't why it failed.

Demand was never there to justify it. Much better things could have happened on the route instead of this service.

road_high · 19-11-2019 12:29am

Was it true that years ago this was the main limerick to Dublin line? Before the Limerick junction one was upgraded?

Lord Glentoran · 19-11-2019 6:04am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I don't believe it was all stations however you could never have justified a business case to run non stop during the bussiest hour of the morning. You could have maybe dropped one or two but 6 minutes isn't why it failed.

Demand was never there to justify it. Much better things could have happened on the route instead of this service.

The logic is then, the service is slow because the track needs upgrading, but the service can’t be upgraded because the service is slow and can’t attract enough passengers.

tabbey · 21-11-2019 11:11pm

road_high wrote: »

Was it true that years ago this was the main limerick to Dublin line? Before the Limerick junction one was upgraded?

Yes, there were two trains each way, with full facilities.

There were also many trains changing at the Junction, slightly faster.

Convenience or speed - it was your choice.

From 1968 there was also one train direct via the Limerick Junction direct curve, from Limerick in the morning, returning in the evening.

dowlingm · 22-11-2019 4:43am

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

The logic is then, the service is slow because the track needs upgrading, but the service can’t be upgraded because the service is slow and can’t attract enough passengers.

the principal problems are the M7 right beside, the small catchments in Roscrea and Nenagh, and that the principal market (Limerick-GDA) is better served by the Limerick Junction route. That the route also has a whack of manual signalling and level crossings is just the cherry on top. It is so slow that when it is bustituted the bus has to wait at each stop to avoid leaving before the scheduled time.

If there was work done at the top end, I would reroute the line closer to Borris-in-Ossory and continuing North to high speed switches onto the Portlaoise line, abandoning Ballybrophy. But that sort of money could be spent ten times over in the Greater Dublin area on projects which would bring in 10x more passengers each time.

Deedsie · 27-11-2019 3:31am

road_high wrote: »

Thomastown is 127km from Heston, Nenagh is 156 km so no they ain't a similar distance from Dublin and likely have a completely different passenger dynamic. If anything Thomastown station location outside of the town robs it of more passengers that it has.

And the Nenagh station in the centre of the town with massive parking area would encourage people to use it if the line wasnt so desperately slow.

I live about 1km from Nenagh railway and I work in Portlaoise. (As do many other people from Nenagh) its a 45 minute drive or or 90+ minutes on the train. I would only love to be getting the train to work. I hate having to drive.

I tried the X12 expressway service. Beyond a joke.

I see there are engineering works affecting the ballybrophy line on Saturdays. Anyone know what these works are for?

Surely in a time when the argument for increased public transport is undebatable we cant close a line that really could be viable with a 10 to 15 million € investment.

Jimbob1977 · 06-12-2019 7:12am

I'd love to see passenger statistics for the 6.30am service from Limerick to Ballybrophy.

It's hard to imagine who needs to take a train to Ballybrophy at 6.30am.

Two carriages with a capacity of c. 150 seats would have more impact on the Dublin route.

Deedsie · 06-12-2019 3:31pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I'd love to see passenger statistics for the 6.30am service from Limerick to Ballybrophy.

It's hard to imagine who needs to take a train to Ballybrophy at 6.30am.

Two carriages with a capacity of c. 150 seats would have more impact on the Dublin route.

Well for the people of Annacotty, Birdhill, Nenagh, Cloughjordan, Roscrea its equally useless. Arriving in Portlaoise after 9 and Dublin just before 10. As a commuter its worthless

Jamie2k9 · 06-12-2019 4:16pm

Wonder if the line was open yesterday would they have merged 16.25/17.25 to Limerick and run via this route to reduce disruption with it taking about 4 hours to fix the failed ICR.

end of the road · 06-12-2019 4:24pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I'd love to see passenger statistics for the 6.30am service from Limerick to Ballybrophy.

It's hard to imagine who needs to take a train to Ballybrophy at 6.30am.

Two carriages with a capacity of c. 150 seats would have more impact on the Dublin route.

even if that is the case, they wouldn't be on the dublin route apart from in an absolute emergency or are going to inchicore or maybe portlaoise for heavier work, so even if that particular service was canceled or even the line shut, they will make no difference to the dublin route as they will remain based out of limerick and will operate the rest of the duties based out of there, and assuming it still happens, interwork with the fleet in cork.

end of the road · 06-12-2019 4:26pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Wonder if the line was open yesterday would they have merged 16.25/17.25 to Limerick and run via this route to reduce disruption with it taking about 4 hours to fix the failed ICR.

i would doubt it tbh.
they wouldn't want to draw any more attention to the line's existence.

dowlingm · 09-12-2019 3:17am

end of the road wrote: »

i would doubt it tbh.
they wouldn't want to draw any more attention to the line's existence.

after the Alan Kelly Express debacle and given the 30mph speeds north of Silvermines, it’s better off keeping a low profile

Del.Monte · 09-12-2019 9:55am

One thing that has always puzzled me is the lack of noise from the people behind the Cloughjordan Eco-Village http://www.thevillage.ie/ about the retention of the line. They do encourage visitors but perhaps their target market is Yummy Mummies in their SUVs - a bit like the green, organic Macreddin Village & BrookLodge in County Wicklow which you need a car to reach.

whisky_galore · 10-12-2019 10:10pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

One thing that has always puzzled me is the lack of noise from the people behind the Cloughjordan Eco-Village http://www.thevillage.ie/ about the retention of the line. They do encourage visitors but perhaps their target market is Yummy Mummies in their SUVs - a bit like the green, organic Macreddin Village & BrookLodge in County Wicklow which you need a car to reach.

Somewhere down at the bottom of the webpage they do acknowledge the presence of a nearby "train station".
The rest of it appears to be buzzword filled grow-your-own crocheted hairshirt territory.

Deedsie · 12-02-2020 10:09am

I wonder if the Greens do get into power will they make any effort to upgrade the Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy rail line.

The only TD that has ever shown interest in the line is Alan Kelly. Hard to see labour being in government.

Del.Monte · 12-02-2020 10:36am

Deedsie wrote: »

I wonder if the Greens do get into power will they make any effort to upgrade the Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy rail line.

The only TD that has ever shown interest in the line is Alan Kelly. Hard to see labour being in government.

I doubt it given that they were in power with FF when they allowed the Waterford/Rosslare line to close. More likely to turn it into a greenway.

dowlingm · 12-02-2020 11:26am

Deedsie wrote: »

I wonder if the Greens do get into power will they make any effort to upgrade the Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy rail line.

The only TD that has ever shown interest in the line is Alan Kelly. Hard to see labour being in government.

Alan Kelly got special fares for the Nenagh branch and the direct ICR service. The service’s poor timekeeping caused mayhem to the commuter schedule into Heuston.

As an aside: a Portlaoise service has been extended back to the Ballybrophy bay because of works - makes one wonder if IE should do that on the regular to allow an InterCity service to save the stop on the Cork 0700

goingnowhere · 12-02-2020 4:29pm

Alan was playing to the crowd, North Tipp is a warzone and Michael Lorry has god like status for continuing to play dodge ball with the authorities 'In Dublin'

Alan was minister for public transport. There is not a single letter, email or other printed record of his communication with Irish Rail about the morning train until someone called foul on the costs, the absence of records suggests this was all done in person or by phone, i.e. try to keep it off. the books.

Alan would appear to be very aware of Irish Rail being subject to FOI

end of the road · 12-02-2020 5:40pm

at least kelly tried to do something to improve the service.
sure he may not have went the right wayabout it, it didn't work as hoped, but at least he gave enough of a damn to try.
so from me it's credit where credit is due.

goingnowhere · 12-02-2020 5:54pm

end of the road wrote: »

at least kelly tried to do something to improve the service.
sure he may not have went the right wayabout it, it didn't work as hoped, but at least he gave enough of a damn to try.
so from me it's credit where credit is due.

Great job on killing the evening post 5pm service from Limerick

end of the road · 12-02-2020 8:25pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

Great job on killing the evening post 5pm service from Limerick

irish rail chose to remove it from what i remember.
kelly can't be blamed for irish rail's choices.

dowlingm · 13-02-2020 12:45am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Great job on killing the evening post 5pm service from Limerick

this is a great point, I forgot that balls up. They should have done enough tamping and PSO removal to have a quick enough service to turn the morning train in Roscrea but that would have taken more money than putting in a pseudo block post in Nenagh.

end of the road wrote: »

irish rail chose to remove it from what i remember.
kelly can't be blamed for irish rail's choices.

politicians involving themselves in public services can’t be a one way bet.

Deedsie · 13-02-2020 10:27am

Has there ever been a feasibility study on upgrading the line? How much would it cost etc to bring it up to a useable standard?

Jamie2k9 · 13-02-2020 10:38am

end of the road wrote: »

irish rail chose to remove it from what i remember.
kelly can't be blamed for irish rail's choices.

Im not going to go back looking at previous and current schedule but wasn't it removed to facilitate a return evening service (earlier to allow daily commuting) from the big smoke!

You could argue they have had ample opportunity restore the old schedule.

IE 222 · 15-02-2020 9:22pm

Would using stock and drivers from Portlaoise or base a 2800 set there not make improvements. This should allow better scheduling times and remove useless movements. The evening return is just bringing the set back to base.

dowlingm · 15-02-2020 10:06pm

IE 222 wrote: »

Would using stock and drivers from Portlaoise or base a 2800 set there not make improvements. This should allow better scheduling times and remove useless movements. The evening return is just bringing the set back to base.

the movements from the mainline to the loop and then onto the branch are time consuming. If there was a different layout... also there is the issue of the ETS staffs being returned. I guess the Ballybrophy-Roscrea block could be brought into CTC like Limerick Junction-Tipperary but now that’s another cost weighed against some thin benefits.

IE 222 · 15-02-2020 10:44pm

dowlingm wrote: »

the movements from the mainline to the loop and then onto the branch are time consuming. If there was a different layout... also there is the issue of the ETS staffs being returned. I guess the Ballybrophy-Roscrea block could be brought into CTC like Limerick Junction-Tipperary but now that’s another cost weighed against some thin benefits.

Well I'd be of the idea of running direct to Portlaise instead of the bay platform in Ballybrophy. Change the connection to the mainline and reinstate the bay platform in Portlaoise, simple enough job. Could the ETS not be returned with the final Limerick - Portlaoise. I'd be thinking starting and finishing in Portlaoise. Most demand is southbound into Limerick isn't it although the operation is ran in reserve of that.

Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy railway

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