New build: price negotiable?

Sunrise_Sunset · 10-01-2019 12:05am #1

Are new builds price negotiable?
For example, a new phase of houses is launching that we might be interested in. For the last phase, just a few months back, people camped outside the estate agent overnight. All 39 houses sold on the first day.
When I checked the Property Price Register recently, they were listed at all different prices! So I thought maybe some people bargained a better price. But if they queued out overnight, the estate agent/developer would have known they'd sell out pretty quickly and surely they wouldn't have accepted any offers below asking price?
If we decide to go for one of these houses, I'd love to go in at below asking price initially

see how it panned out.

Creamy Goodness · 10-01-2019 12:06am

Property price register is sale price minus VAT. House prices can vary depending on the amount of rooms/garden size/location on the site. Not all houses in new developments are sold at the “from: €xxxK” price

As you said people were queuing for these houses. You can try low ball but my guess is you’ll end up disappointed.

Stanford · 10-01-2019 12:09am

The sale of a house between Sellor and Purchaser is negotiable provided one party is prepared to negotiate, sometimes a development will sell out quickly if the Developer is anxious to sell quickly and move on, have a go.

Sunrise_Sunset · 10-01-2019 8:02am

I think I'd be plucky enough to initially go in below asking price. All they can say is no, and then I'd offer the asking price there and then. I wouldn't have thought so before I saw the PPR.
I know that the PPR shows the cost of new builds before VAT. But the prices still appear to vary quite a bit. Pity it doesn't show if they are 2/3/4 bedrooms. Can they charge different prices for south/north facing etc? Although these houses in question are on the same block so they are all facing the same way.

L1011 · 10-01-2019 9:55am

If they don't all sell immediately you may have a chance - but in the current market it's basically a no.

Different prices may be from custom requests also. If you buy off the plans or otherwise early in construction it's normally possible to request alterations

big syke · 10-01-2019 9:58am

lililanny wrote: »

I think I'd be plucky enough to initially go in below asking price. All they can say is no, and then I'd offer the asking price there and then. I wouldn't have thought so before I saw the PPR.
I know that the PPR shows the cost of new builds before VAT. But the prices still appear to vary quite a bit. Pity it doesn't show if they are 2/3/4 bedrooms. Can they charge different prices for south/north facing etc? Although these houses in question are on the same block so they are all facing the same way.

The prices vary due to the finish of the house.

An extra dozen electrical/internet points, external plugs, inclusion or removal of fake fireplaces etc

Sheep Shagger · 10-01-2019 9:58am

L1011 wrote: »

If they don't all sell immediately you may have a chance - but in the current market it's basically a no.

Different prices may be from custom requests also. If you buy off the plans or otherwise early in construction it's normally possible to request alterations

As someone who has just bought a new build it was a No on price....

Trying to see if we can tweak a few things as the building progresses- is like pulling teeth

Henry Ford III · 10-01-2019 10:18am

If people are camping overnight to ensure they can buy a unit the chances of any discount are pretty low I'd have thought

cruizer101 · 10-01-2019 10:22am

I can't see any reason a builder would give a discount if there is a queue of people behind you willing to pay asking.
If anything I wouldn't be surprised if some people tried offering more to secure a house before any queuing.

The different house prices are probably down to different finishes maybe even slightly different garden sizes, even if all facing the same way different positions worth different amounts, whats opposite the house, end of culdesac, etc.

GingerLily · 10-01-2019 10:34am

If you go in there and annoy them when they have a queue of people behind you they may decide your not worth the hassle.

Henrys Grimey Paws · 10-01-2019 10:38am

As others have said, prices are different due to a number of different things. Houses with south or south-westerly facing rear gardens will cost more than east/north facing. In a new build you'll have the option of adding additional electrical points, getting the builders to put in the flooring, adding a gas outlet in the kitchen rather than electric etc.

There's loads of reasons that people will pay more/less than others, in addition some people may have bought the house off plans & they'll likely receive a discount for that.

cruizer101 · 10-01-2019 10:45am

GingerLily wrote: »

If you go in there and annoy them when they have a queue of people behind you they may decide your not worth the hassle.

This could be true

Builder: Next please, Whats your name, what house are you interested in and have you got deposit.
lililanny: Hi my name is lililanny, I was just wonder on the asking price is there any room for negotiat..
Builder: NEXT

Its not to say there is no chance of it, but given the market at the moment I'd say its not likely. See on the morning based on the queue and that, if big queue I wouldn't bother.

amcalester · 10-01-2019 10:50am

You might have more luck negotiating on the price of any alterations you request than the purchase price.

It's something I regret not trying to do when I bought. I got quotes from the builder for some alterations and then said Yes or No based on the price, I didn't try and negotiate.

No idea if he would have agreed to a lower price but from speaking to some of the subbies I worked out he was working off a 35% margin so there probably was room to negotiate.

salmocab · 10-01-2019 10:56am

As others have said beyond the actual different house types the variances are more likely to have been peoples particular extras, electrical, paint, skirts and frames, doors, kitchens finish, attic conversions, flooring even the garden are all things some people might have got done by the builder, could be anywhere from a couple of hundred up to 15,000 difference easy enough.

vintagecosmos · 10-01-2019 11:10am

I'd say depends on the development. I live near an area where there are multiple developments that have not sold out. Clontarf/malahide/portmarnock area. Granted the prices are pretty steep starting from about 500k.

One of them has houses on the market still after one year from launch.

GingerLily · 10-01-2019 11:29am

cruizer101 wrote: »

GingerLily wrote: »

If you go in there and annoy them when they have a queue of people behind you they may decide your not worth the hassle.

This could be true

Builder: Next please, Whats your name, what house are you interested in and have you got deposit.
lililanny: Hi my name is lililanny, I was just wonder on the asking price is there any room for negotiat..
Builder: NEXT

Its not to say there is no chance of it, but given the market at the moment I'd say its not likely. See on the morning based on the queue and that, if big queue I wouldn't bother.

Or they can be more subtle "thank you for query, we'll get back to you in 7 days on that", and sure if they're all sold by then there's nothing to left to buy!

Sunrise_Sunset · 12-01-2019 4:48pm

I wouldn't leave the queue waiting on a reply. If that were the case, I'd go back in at asking price there and then.
I didn't think there'd be a chance of it, just wondered based on prices I saw on the PPR.

Sunrise_Sunset · 12-01-2019 4:54pm

salmocab wrote: »

As others have said beyond the actual different house types the variances are more likely to have been peoples particular extras, electrical, paint, skirts and frames, doors, kitchens finish, attic conversions, flooring even the garden are all things some people might have got done by the builder, could be anywhere from a couple of hundred up to 15,000 difference easy enough.

Thank you. That makes more sense. Hadn't thought of it.

listermint · 12-01-2019 4:58pm

lililanny wrote: »

Thank you. That makes more sense. Hadn't thought of it.

I suppose what your asking is why the difference in prices.

Its very simple different size gardens , different orientations . Closer to or further away from estate entrances all these things impact the initial on the day book value of the houses. Not the finishes as pointed out earlier. Mostly finishes are take it or leave it with little room to negotiate sockets or anything else.

Its generally placement in the estate and your orientation.

And no you won't get any discounts.

salmocab · 12-01-2019 5:01pm

listermint wrote: »

I suppose what your asking is why the difference in prices.

Its very simple different size gardens , different orientations . Closer to or further away from estate entrances all these things impact the initial on the day book value of the houses. Not the finishes as pointed out earlier. Mostly finishes are take it or leave it with little room to negotiate sockets or anything else.

Its generally placement in the estate and your orientation.

And no you won't get any discounts.

Plenty of people pay the builder extra for extra work, not negotiating on getting extras for cheap but paying a premium to have finishes done before moving in.

Klonker · 12-01-2019 5:11pm

No chance OP

PukkaStukka · 12-01-2019 5:13pm

vintagecosmos wrote: »

I'd say depends on the development. I live near an area where there are multiple developments that have not sold out. Clontarf/malahide/portmarnock area. Granted the prices are pretty steep starting from about 500k.

One of them has houses on the market still after one year from launch.

I live in Donabate and there are a number of developments that are not selling here either. The market has maxed out on affordability, and a lot of new builds are high-densityish, no gas supply, no fireplace and electric everything which isn't to everyones tastes. I'm hearing privately that some developers are concerned what way things will go in the market this year, especially with the uncertainty with Brexit.

OP, if you're planning on haggling then go for it. The worst you can be told is no.

The_Conductor · 12-01-2019 7:38pm

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I live in Donabate and there are a number of developments that are not selling here either. .

West Dublin and North Kildare are exactly the same.
There is saturation at current price points- affordability is putting a brake on proceedings. Absolutely see what you can get thrown into the price- some extra work now- when its easy to do- could be worth its weight in gold later.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained- re: trying to negotiate- worse case scenario- they say no- but in the current market- if stuff isn't shifting- and increasingly, it isn't- its swinging back towards a buyer's market again..........

PukkaStukka · 12-01-2019 9:12pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

West Dublin and North Kildare are exactly the same.
There is saturation at current price points- affordability is putting a brake on proceedings.

Not only that, but commuting from those areas has become insufferable. Trains at capacity, main roads congested, M50 and interfacing main routes are usually at a standstill. A shortage of schools and affordable childcare. Then on top of that, government policy re the property market is IMO very questionable with initiatives that have increased prices in recent years, presumably to remove some from negative equity and also placate developer needs for what they consider a reasonable return.

At the same time, changes to planning guidelines have seen massively increased densities in locations close to rail, and a relaxing of future height restrictions. I believe this is fundamentally bad because all it does is propogate the sprawl further and further without any commensurate improvements in infrastructure and services. I really do wonder did they learn anything at all from the carnage of a decade ago. Sadly I think not much.

I'm so glad I'm not starting out again like the current first time buyers.

kala85 · 13-01-2019 3:45pm

Does the price of a new build on the property price register include or exclude the help to buy scheme contribution?

Also why is the price on the register put down as excluding VAT for the new builds?

awec · 13-01-2019 4:16pm

They will 100% tell you no on the day of the launch. You'll be shown a map of available properties, you pick one and they will tell you the price.

They would sooner not sell the property on launch day than give it to you for a reduced offer.

If it still hasn't sold a few weeks later they might entertain it, but then you have to take the risk of it being bought by someone else instead and you ending up with nothing.

GingerLily · 13-01-2019 4:18pm

kala85 wrote: »

Does the price of a new build on the property price register include or exclude the help to buy scheme contribution?

Also why is the price on the register put down as excluding VAT for the new builds?

Using that help to buy scheme doesn't reduce the price of the house, it just reduces the cost to the buyer from their tax rebate.
Its excluding VAT so multiple by 1.135 to get the purchase price.

kala85 · 13-01-2019 7:42pm

GingerLily wrote: »

Using that help to buy scheme doesn't reduce the price of the house, it just reduces the cost to the buyer from their tax rebate.
Its excluding VAT so multiple by 1.135 to get the purchase price.

So in the case of a first time buyer, the full sale price excluding the vat element will be on the register then. Is that correct?

Victor · 13-01-2019 7:46pm

Note that houses that are nominally the same in the brochure can actually vary, e.g. end of terrace houses may have a wider site, extra windows, etc. It will often also be in higher demand compared to mid-terrace.

kala85 wrote: »

So in the case of a first time buyer, the full sale price excluding the vat element will be on the register then. Is that correct?

The buyer status is irrelevant to the VAT rate. It is whether the property has been sold before or not (but there are nuances).

GingerLily · 13-01-2019 7:46pm

kala85 wrote: »

GingerLily wrote: »

Using that help to buy scheme doesn't reduce the price of the house, it just reduces the cost to the buyer from their tax rebate.
Its excluding VAT so multiple by 1.135 to get the purchase price.

So in the case of a first time buyer, the full sale price excluding the vat element will be on the register then. Is that correct?

Yes

kala85 · 13-01-2019 7:58pm

GingerLily wrote: »

Yes

Thanks

New build: price negotiable?

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