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22,000 homeowners avoid property tax for yet another year

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    #2
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,488 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Colonel Claptrap wrote:
    22,000 homeowners avoid property tax for yet another year. I count myself among that number. The revaluation review will not happen under the current government, instead will be kicked to touch for the new government to handle next year.


    Amazing how a small increase in property tax is considered to be politically unpalatable, yet rents annually increasing by double digit percentage rates is not considered to be an issue

    They say renting can be twice the cost of a mortgage at the moment so with more and more people trapped renting, one can see political change very soon be it current parties polices or the emergence of different parties to power


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    #3
    Hubertj
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Amazing how a small increase in property tax is considered to be politically unpalatable, yet rents annually increasing by double digit percentage rates is not considered to be an issue

    They say renting can be twice the cost of a mortgage at the moment so with more and more people trapped renting, one can see political change very soon be it current parties polices or the emergence of different parties to power

    I agree on property tax. I don’t understand why it hasn’t been reviewed. I think I should be paying more and am happy to pay more property tax provided it is then used appropriately.


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    #4
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    A higher property tax might help lessen some of the development levies imposed by local authorities.

    Not only would that reduce build costs and hopefully property prices, it should also even out local authority revenue rather than mirroring the peaks & troughs of the construction industry.


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    #5
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Amazing how a small increase in property tax is considered to be politically unpalatable, yet rents annually increasing by double digit percentage rates is not considered to be an issue

    They say renting can be twice the cost of a mortgage at the moment so with more and more people trapped renting, one can see political change very soon be it current parties polices or the emergence of different parties to power


    The main issue I see with taht is that property tax is paid by people who already bought and own their houses, they have already paid or are paying to be owners. Why do I have to pay tax on something that is mine and that cost me a fortune?


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    #6
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,393 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    The main issue I see with taht is that property tax is paid by people who already bought and own their houses, they have already paid or are paying to be owners. Why do I have to pay tax on something that is mine and that cost me a fortune?

    To support those that can't...... Among other reasons.


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    #7
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    The main issue I see with taht is that property tax is paid by people who already bought and own their houses, they have already paid or are paying to be owners. Why do I have to pay tax on something that is mine and that cost me a fortune?

    Presumably so you can continue to enjoy the provision of local services.

    Would probably make a good topic for another thread :)

    At the moment, a large part of LA revenue is derived from charges levied at construction stage which is pushing up property prices.


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    #8
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    Graham wrote: »
    Presumably so you can continue to enjoy the provision of local services.

    Would probably make a good topic for another thread :)

    At the moment, a large part of LA revenue is derived from charges levied at construction stage which is pushing up property prices.


    which will have been paid by house owners anyway, so if I have already paid that money when i bought my house why do I have to keep paying?
    I dont want to sound difficult here, but buying a house is a huge investment. Once it's done someone should feel relieved from additional monthly payments


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    #9
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Topic worth of its own thread so split from main property market discussion..


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    #10
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    kippy wrote: »
    To support those that can't...... Among other reasons.

    I thought that is what my PAYE / PRSI etc was paying for.


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    #11
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mic 1972 wrote: »
    which will have been paid by house owners anyway, so if I have already paid that money when i bought my house why do I have to keep paying?
    I dont want to sound difficult here, but buying a house is a huge investment. Once it's done someone should feel relieved from additional monthly payments

    So we can stop treating LA funding as some sort of construction related pyramid scheme.

    I'd be all for a pro rated LPT for anyone that has recently paid significant construction levies.


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    #12
    conndeal
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭conndeal


    Would the Local Authorities really be better off in the long run if they increased property tax? It would discourage young people from buying houses if there was a significant property tax. Then the Local Authorities would have to provide free housing for these people when they get older, no longer in employment, and cannot afford rent.

    I think it is better to encourage people to own property. They have more interest in the maintenance of the house, more interest in the area, it builds up communities.


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Property tax should never have come in, ridiculous tax.

    Can’t believe I see people in here say they are happy to pay it or even pay a higher rate - mind boggling.


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    #14
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,700 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    The socialist Shinners won't be long rectifying that anomaly when they sweep to power.


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    #15
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    I've always paid it. Don't agree with it but when non payers are threatened with revenue it's hardly a level playing field.

    I wish it was being used to benefit each locality though instead of shoring up central govt.


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    #16
    yer man!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭yer man!


    Should they maybe have brought in a council tax instead? Have it actually linked to the council to pay for local services. Seems like we try and reinvent the wheel with taxes at times rather and seeing what's tried and tested, in some cases already in effect on the island in NI with domestic rates.


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    #17
    corsav6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭corsav6


    What am I getting for this tax? I pay for water, pay for electricity, pay for all maintenance and repair around my house. The council or government provide absolutely nothing. The only thing the council did was stipulate on the planning that we had to put our driveway in the most awkward position for us so that we have to deal with the main road drainage now. Putting a tax on someone's home is a scummy thing to do.


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    #18
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Here you got:
    Local Property Tax allocations paid from the Local Government Fund help fund essential local services such as, public parks; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities; planning and development; fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets and street lighting .
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/chargestaxes/local-property-tax/local-property-tax
    some of it is used to fund capital spending on roads and housing. €77m of the €500m LPT allocation in the 2019 budgets was for the capital budget.
    https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0519/1139283-local-property-tax/

    Businesses contribute about 4 times the amount raised via residential LPT.


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    #19
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Villa05 wrote: »

    They say renting can be twice the cost of a mortgage at the moment so with more and more people trapped renting, one can see political change very soon be it current parties polices or the emergence of different parties to power

    My old apartment/duplex was recently up for rent a few months back. €1,150 a month (when I was renting there it was €650 a few years back) my mortgage is €380...


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    #20
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Graham wrote: »
    A higher property tax might help lessen some of the development levies imposed by local authorities.

    Not only would that reduce build costs and hopefully property prices, it should also even out local authority revenue rather than mirroring the peaks & troughs of the construction industry.

    Yes, because the best solution is to reward inefficient institutions by giving them more money!


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    #21
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    The lack of tax paid by foreign money backed entities is what is more destructive to the provision of public services than the lack of enforcement of a property tax. These companies hoover up the State's resources and infrastructure, booking massive revenue in Ireland and pay an effective tax rate which is pithy by comparison. A property tax on individuals while big corporates are ignored is a reason to go against the enforcement of the property tax in Ireland.

    For example, Facebook, Google, Amazon are lecherous companies which are eroding democracy - even our own data protection commissioner, the body with the aim of safeguarding the law protecting citizens' data, is taking a light touch approach to probing into the affairs of these companies; laws are allowed to be broken to the detriment of the people in Ireland. Our government, elected by the people, are afraid to say boo due to the jobs they create which is of course nonsense since they actually destroy jobs.

    Another example is the institutional investors in Irish property. Buying up NAMA portfolios, paying no tax on the transactions, extracting rent and paying no tax as well.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    The lack of tax paid by foreign money backed entities is what is more destructive to the provision of public services than the lack of enforcement of a property tax. These companies hoover up the State's resources and infrastructure, booking massive revenue in Ireland and pay an effective tax rate which is pithy by comparison. A property tax on individuals while big corporates are ignored is a reason to go against the enforcement of the property tax in Ireland.

    For example, Facebook, Google, Amazon are lecherous companies which are eroding democracy - even our own data protection commissioner, the body with the aim of safeguarding the law protecting citizens' data, is taking a light touch approach to probing into the affairs of these companies; laws are allowed to be broken to the detriment of the people in Ireland. Our government, elected by the people, are afraid to say boo due to the jobs they create which is of course nonsense since they actually destroy jobs.

    Another example is the institutional investors in Irish property. Buying up NAMA portfolios, paying no tax on the transactions, extracting rent and paying no tax as well.

    Rubbish, they employ thousands and thousands of mostly highly paid people, who pay tax and in turn supports thousands of other jobs in the economy indirectly.

    I have no time whatsoever for anyone who complains or sees an issue with our tax laws around multinational as it’s vitally important for our economy and jobs.


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    #23
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Yes, because the best solution is to reward inefficient institutions by giving them more money!

    Alternatively.

    It makes sense for ongoing costs to be matched with ongoing revenue.


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    #24
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Property tax should never have been brought in I don't know why people didn't protest more when they were bringing it in


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    #25
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Joel Wrong Planet wrote: »
    Rubbish, they employ thousands and thousands of mostly highly paid people, who pay tax and in turn supports thousands of other jobs in the economy indirectly.

    I have no time whatsoever for anyone who complains or sees an issue with our tax laws around multinational as it’s vitally important for our economy and jobs.

    Awful immoral attitude which I cannot stand, the small minded mentality that makes me not like Irish people.


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    #26
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    Awful immoral attitude which I cannot stand, the small minded mentality that makes me not like Irish people.

    While I don't agree with the fact some companies aren't paying the correct taxes, there's no doubting the income tax is very beneficial. Especially from a company like Facebook where the average salary, before shares and bonuses, is around €100k.


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    #27
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    We're going to need those multinationals more than ever now.

    Covid has eradicated a large chunk of the small local tourism, hotel and restaurant employment. I'm expecting a lot of small Irish businesses to go to the wall.


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    #28
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    What's the story bout the tax gov were to take from abandoned/unused/delapitated properties and undeveloped zoned sites/land. Is that on the go atm? The gov should clamp down with a substantial (a figure that will make owners sit up anyway!) Charge for these properties in the cities anyway to start off with. To lessen the pressure on the supply side in the cities.


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    #29
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    I thought that is what my PAYE / PRSI etc was paying for.

    Total PAYE in ireland is about 10 billion. HSE alone costs more than that.


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    #30
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Introduce a council tax, all adults pay it, no exceptions. Disgrace that the legions getting free housing , dont even pay lpt. Use the money generated to reduce marginal rate of tax ...


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    #31
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Joel Wrong Planet wrote: »
    Rubbish, they employ thousands and thousands of mostly highly paid people, who pay tax and in turn supports thousands of other jobs in the economy indirectly.

    I have no time whatsoever for anyone who complains or sees an issue with our tax laws around multinational as it’s vitally important for our economy and jobs.
    You just know when people mention taxing multinationals in Ireland they are the most short-sighted people. The multinationals like you say employ tens of thousands of Irish people in generally high-paying jobs we otherwise would not have, and one of the attractions of Ireland is the stable political and tax systems. There are lots of countries in Europe with young, well-educated populations who would love to take our place if we messed up.

    The extra 10% or whatever we add to corporation tax would give us a short-term cash boost, but would cost us a fortune in the longer term as multi-nationals look elsewhere.


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