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How to fix antisocial areas

135

Comments

  • #62
    J_1980
    Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭J_1980


    creditcarder wrote: »
    How much do you make on the dole as a sidenote?

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/one_parent_family_payment.html#l62fd2


    Single mum with a child gets 1040 per month, likely free housing (council house payments are optional in this country). Keep in mind you can do some off-the-record gig work on the side (makeup, child minding etc).

    Most people on 35k don’t have more money after rent/mortgage and work related costs (travel, outfit) etc.
    Socialism always impoverishes the middle class, but the Irish seem to like it. Luckily there are options for those who don’t (uk usa australia..)


  • #63
    feelthepower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭feelthepower


    J_1980 wrote: »
    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/one_parent_family_payment.html#l62fd2


    Single mum with a child gets 1040 per month, likely free housing (council house payments are optional in this country). Keep in mind you can do some off-the-record gig work on the side (makeup, child minding etc).

    Most people on 35k don’t have more money after rent/mortgage and work related costs (travel, outfit) etc.
    Socialism always impoverishes the middle class, but the Irish seem to like it. Luckily there are options for those who don’t (uk usa australia..)

    Scandalous, If you can't pay for your child it should be taken off you.

    Lets see how fast people keep their legs closed then.


  • #64
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    At least. It's all a bit pathetic really.

    and the term " anti social" is applied to the wrong people...


  • #65
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    feelthepower wrote: »
    Scandalous, If you can't pay for your child it should be taken off you.

    Lets see how fast people keep their legs closed then.

    Back to RC policy? That didn't work!


  • #66
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    creditcarder wrote: »
    Am I the only one who thinks violent offenders below the age of 21 should serve in the military for a year or two? Might give them structure, male role models and a possible career.



    Or be a training ground.

    An excellent idea often mooted but never implemented

    There is a scheme in the UK where repeat offenders are sent to a tough army camp to learn discipline and respect from really tough sergeants .. Give the army something to do.


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  • #67
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    handlemaster wrote: »
    There are lots of antisocial estates in Ireland. How can this be fixed realistically. Jobs are of no interest to some people. But what can be done when crime is being committed ? Perhaps a simple idea like every house have a Ring door bell installed and the subsequent footage pulled by the gardai when an instant happens. Perhaps support from the local council with cost could be raised.

    Ah Big Brother?


  • #68
    mcgragger
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mcgragger


    If we had a decent police force with police that were properly trained, conditioned and managed then that's a start. Aslo a functioning courts system where people that appear there multiple times are put in jail. How many times do you read about criminals with loads of convictions?
    The problem with this country is we have a system that doesn't scare the criminals at all and they'd probably outrun the majority of the unfit police in the Gardai anyway.


  • #69
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Think you are wasting your time attempting to explain that here. Apparently its only social housing tenants that are trouble. Some seem to be magically able to tell where someone lives just by looking at them incredible really.

    They tattoo us on the forehead with invisible ink..


  • #70
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Thank you for your pm; can you allow a reply please? Happy to give you my email also. Blessings and peace...
    AulWan wrote: »
    Here we go, yet another thread, bashing social housing and tarring all it's occupants with the same brush.

    How many is that today, three?


  • #71
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,803 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    J_1980 wrote:
    Most people on 35k don’t have more money after rent/mortgage and work related costs (travel, outfit) etc. Socialism always impoverishes the middle class, but the Irish seem to like it. Luckily there are options for those who don’t (uk usa australia..)


    Socialism! In bog standard free market economy ireland!


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  • #72
    declanflynn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    feelthepower wrote: »
    Scandalous, If you can't pay for your child it should be taken off you.

    Lets see how fast people keep their legs closed then.
    If a young one gets pregnant she shouldn't get a free house, she should live with her own parents, if she couldn't look after herself how is she going to bring up a child


  • #73
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Think you are wasting your time attempting to explain that here. Apparently its only social housing tenants that are trouble. Some seem to be magically able to tell where someone lives just by looking at them incredible really.

    I dont think anyone has made that point at all , Ofcourse it happens everywhere but theres factors that make it more likely within social housing.

    1) ‘the devil makes work for idle hands’ - 62% of social tenants are solely welfare recipients, 24 hours a day with no commitments, above average stats on substance abuse and binge drinking , its a recipie for anti social behaviour

    2) we live in the lone parents capitol of the world and this usually means single mothers, the absense of a father figure and male role models often leads to boys participating in anti social behaviour and crime

    3) education standards among parents and children alike, incidents of learning difficulties such as add/adhd are statistically more prevalent in social housing which increases the chance of participating in anti social behaviour

    4) poverty rates smong social housing tenants are higher , increasing the risk of participation in criminality for additional income

    Not everyone in social housing is a layabout, criminal, drunk or a feckless parent by any means, but most of them are in social housing.

    Keep social housing concentrations low, have children mix with kids whos fathers are present and positive role models, report anti social incidents to tusla and the gardai and you can have a happy mix in a development.


  • #74
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭The Student


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    Think you are wasting your time attempting to explain that here. Apparently its only social housing tenants that are trouble. Some seem to be magically able to tell where someone lives just by looking at them incredible really.

    Lets just look at this concept a bit deeper. Anti social behaviour does happen in all areas however there is a higher prevalence and at the higher end of the scale in social housing areas.

    If the same level and type of anti social behaviour is occurring everywhere as this thread will lead us to believe then why are all new housing developments required to provide social and affordable housing.

    Logic would suggest if there were no social houses in a development than the State could get the value of the 20% social housing requirement in a development and use those funds to build a higher number of houses than the 20% of the houses in any new development.

    So if you had 10 x €500k houses there would 2 x €500k so the State could get €1m which could build 4 x €250k houses for social tenants.


  • #75
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,107 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Parenting classes.

    Loss of children's allowance if child does not attend school, hospital appointments etc. If you are not parenting properly, why should you benefit from it?
    Having taught children from many of these areas, a parent teacher meeting (with almost no parents working) could often result in a parent appearing for less than 20% of the children in a class. Give a sh1t about how your kids are getting on, ffs.

    Adjustment of SW system so that getting into work results in higher FIS payments/medical coverage etc. - is is ludicrous that getting into even very low paid work results in people losing out on a medical card for example. There is no incentive to work if it means a worse standard of living than on the dole.

    I would agree with nothing for nothing. A school leaver should not be able to sign straight on the dole. No harm in a few weeks in some sort of community benefitting scheme (graffiti removal etc.) before being able to collect social welfare, even for 6 weeks or so, to 'pay' society for their unpaid for allowances.

    Investigate where large new SUVs, regular expensive holidays etc. are coming from in households supposedly only on benefits. Decent people need to see those who are blatantly milking the system be caught.


  • #76
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Vivienne23 wrote: »
    Read the last line

    You mean the cliché about " contributing to society" I assume?

    OK. Specify how ? What is there for folk to do ? How do YOU know what folk are doing?


  • #77
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    spurious wrote: »
    Parenting classes.

    Loss of children's allowance if child does not attend school, hospital appointments etc. If you are not parenting properly, why should you benefit from it?
    Having taught children from many of these areas, a parent teacher meeting (with almost no parents working) could often result in a parent appearing for less than 20% of the children in a class. Give a sh1t about how your kids are getting on, ffs.

    Adjustment of SW system so that getting into work results in higher FIS payments/medical coverage etc. - is is ludicrous that getting into even very low paid work results in people losing out on a medical card for example. There is no incentive to work if it means a worse standard of living than on the dole.

    I would agree with nothing for nothing. A school leaver should not be able to sign straight on the dole. No harm in a few weeks in some sort of community benefitting scheme (graffiti removal etc.) before being able to collect social welfare, even for 6 weeks or so, to 'pay' society for their unpaid for allowances.

    Investigate where large new SUVs, regular expensive holidays etc. are coming from in households supposedly only on benefits. Decent people need to see those who are blatantly milking the system be caught.

    Taught by who please? Some well off person pontificating?

    Words fail re your last para.. MYOB applies


  • #78
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,107 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Graces7 wrote: »

    Words fail re your last para.. MYOB applies

    Citizenship classes for some.

    **actually don't bother with them. I see you have a history of trolling/forum bans.


  • #79
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Taught by who please? Some well off person pontificating?

    Words fail re your last para.. MYOB applies

    Maybe large new SUVs is a little exaggerated, but everyone knows a family who goes on a foreign holiday regularly enough and drives decent cars, yet they haven't worked in years, if ever.

    Questions need to be asked how someone on benefits can afford this. Benefits should be enough to give you the essentials in life and keep you off the poverty line. The essentials being food, warmth and shelter - not Sky TV, a Nissan Qashqai and a trip to Benidorm.


  • #80
    Jet Black
    Registered Users Posts: 3,841 ✭✭✭Jet Black


    Kav_Piero wrote: »
    For example we have a few football pitches in the area which are used by 4 or 5 local football teams, it offers a perfect opportunity for youngsters to keep busy by joining a team, it will improve their mental and physical health and will likely reduce their chances of getting into trouble. The goal mouth of these pitches have been set on fire numerous times in the last year. It's always going to be a mentality issue not an area issue.

    Not everyone wants to play football and that's only going to occupy someone for a few hours a week. During the winter months you can't really play. I couldn't get on the local teams but got on the Gaelic team which I disliked as much as football. That was one evening a week and Saturday morning sorted. Left the rest of the week with nothing to do.

    Gardai won't do anything because they've no powers just like if anyone was caught raising their hand to them they'd be lynched.

    Government won't enforce any social welfare restrictions because it will be seen as taking away from the 'poor'

    Could try the carrot approach and have actual amenities in the areas where they can go in the evening instead of hanging around housing estates causing trouble and throwing stones at busses. I grew up in one of the areas that people think should be bulldozed and remember just walking the streets with nothing to do apart from play the odd game of football. I didn't cause trouble because I would have been rightly beaten, but then again I wouldn't have been a scumbag even without the threat of violence.


  • #81
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,803 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spurious wrote: »
    Parenting classes.

    Loss of children's allowance if child does not attend school, hospital appointments etc. If you are not parenting properly, why should you benefit from it?
    Having taught children from many of these areas, a parent teacher meeting (with almost no parents working) could often result in a parent appearing for less than 20% of the children in a class. Give a sh1t about how your kids are getting on, ffs.

    Adjustment of SW system so that getting into work results in higher FIS payments/medical coverage etc. - is is ludicrous that getting into even very low paid work results in people losing out on a medical card for example. There is no incentive to work if it means a worse standard of living than on the dole.

    I would agree with nothing for nothing. A school leaver should not be able to sign straight on the dole. No harm in a few weeks in some sort of community benefitting scheme (graffiti removal etc.) before being able to collect social welfare, even for 6 weeks or so, to 'pay' society for their unpaid for allowances.

    Investigate where large new SUVs, regular expensive holidays etc. are coming from in households supposedly only on benefits. Decent people need to see those who are blatantly milking the system be caught.

    you re a teacher, or work in the educational sector?


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  • #82
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    you re a teacher, or work in the educational sector?

    Isn't it ironic that a teacher would talk about milking the system when they're notorious for tax evasion for the likes of grinds, after school study. You get paid to do nothing over the summer, doesn't that completely discredit your argument spurious?
    So are we going to accept this apparent double standard?

    When will people stop equating poverty with criminality. It's an over simplified explanation for a very complex intricate problem


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Isn't it ironic that a teacher would talk about milking the system when they're notorious for tax evasion for the likes of grinds, after school study. You get paid to do nothing over the summer, doesn't that completely discredit your argument spurious?
    So are we going to accept this apparent double standard?

    When will people stop equating poverty with criminality. It's an over simplified explanation for a very complex intricate problem

    jesus christ this is desperate stuff

    go learn what salaried employment is ffs


  • #84
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Isn't it ironic that a teacher would talk about milking the system when they're notorious for tax evasion for the likes of grinds, after school study. You get paid to do nothing over the summer, doesn't that completely discredit your argument spurious?
    So are we going to accept this apparent double standard?

    When will people stop equating poverty with criminality. It's an over simplified explanation for a very complex intricate problem

    It may be a complex issue but poverty is link directly to criminality. Putting people together where some are criminals cause more to be criminals. This is not some made up theory but well documented.

    There should be integrated communities to prevent the problem. That is not to say mass social housing should be added to areas which is what way it is being done now. Sometimes obviously and then other times through the back door. Like where a new housing estate become completely social housing.

    Make decision in haste and regret at leisure. These decision have a lasting impact that take decades to address and in many cases never addressed.


  • #85
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    There should be integrated communities to prevent the problem..

    This is in place across Ireland, it's a pity the media and trolls on here chose to focus odd negative story rather than acknowledge the harmonious relationship that so often exists between private house dwellers and occupants of council houses.

    I also can't help but feel that if such was the case, that social houses would be integrated into every community, there would be mass objection from those bigoted board ueers who have really shown their true colours in this thread. They lead such a cushy life, and have such a distorted perception of social housing tenants.


  • #86
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    J_1980 wrote: »
    Full employment - Oh really?
    https://www.thejournal.ie/jobless-households-3832381-Feb2018/

    “ALMOST ONE IN six Irish households has no adults of working age in employment, according to the Department of Social Protection.

    A jobless household is one where no adult in the household it working, it excludes households made up completely of students or adults over 65.”


    Well anyway the bill will come when the truly unemployed (losing their jobs) get added to the dole. €160bn of new debt in the last recession - 40bn for the banks and no one asks about the other €120bn??

    Next recession?: Without much room for tax increases (lpt, usc, highest marginal tax rate in eurozone, highest vat already introduced) times will be funny 😆 Most Irish people are totally oblivious to what’s coming. We shall see.

    Stop with this sensationalist bull****.
    Yes we are at full employment, do you think a journal article is going to disprove well founded sound studies from acclaimed economists?

    I do pity you, for having such a pessimistic outlook


  • #87
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    spurious wrote: »

    Investigate where large new SUVs, regular expensive holidays etc. are coming from in households supposedly only on benefits. Decent people need to see those who are blatantly milking the system be caught.

    Hence the establishment of CAB.
    What you want is for people to lead lives devoid of happiness and luxuries. Someone on the dole may well be deserving of a holiday, a new car, last time I checked we are free to make our own decisions in this country as regards what and what not to purchase.


  • #88
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,107 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Hence the establishment of CAB.
    What you want is for people to lead lives devoid of happiness and luxuries. Someone on the dole may well be deserving of a holiday, a new car, last time I checked we are free to make our own decisions in this country as regards what and what not to purchase.

    Absolutely and if I have an income of 250k and pay 20 euro tax, someone asks questions.
    If you have an income of 20k and are buying a 35k car and going on three 5k holidays a year, questions should also be asked.


  • #89
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    This is in place across Ireland, it's a pity the media and trolls on here chose to focus odd negative story rather than acknowledge the harmonious relationship that so often exists between private house dwellers and occupants of council houses.

    I also can't help but feel that if such was the case, that social houses would be integrated into every community, there would be mass objection from those bigoted board ueers who have really shown their true colours in this thread. They lead such a cushy life, and have such a distorted perception of social housing tenants.

    No it it isn't. Huge areas of social housing were created and they aren't integrated. I fully support people when plans aren't integrated. No area should be put upon for political point scoring.


  • #90
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    How about evicting those families don't pay their rent that are repeat criminals in their area. I know some here will say you can't be doing that but the 99% of ordinary people in these estates would be delighted. What would happen to them you may ask. They can sign up for housing provision somewhere else in the country and a law abiding family can be taken off the homeless list.


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  • #91
    Enter name here
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Enter name here


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Hence the establishment of CAB.
    What you want is for people to lead lives devoid of happiness and luxuries. Someone on the dole may well be deserving of a holiday, a new car, last time I checked we are free to make our own decisions in this country as regards what and what not to purchase.

    Bollocks, no one on the dole should ever be able to afford a holiday or new car. That is not welfare was designed for. Welfare is a helping hand in time of need, not an endless pit to supplement lazy people who contribute nothing to society.


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