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"Everyday Racism"

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  • Options
    #182
    Peruvian Flake
    Site Banned Posts: 27 ✭Peruvian Flake


    There is billions to be made off "racism" or perceived racism.


  • Options
    #183
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Suzanne Moore is an example of this in action:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-row-over-suzanne-moore-is-a-test-for-the-guardian-s-liberal-credentials

    Hopefully the Guardian stand firm and don't sack her.

    The Guardian has been notorious for years for printing a lot of articles that have been described as transphobic. Curious to read this one and see what sets it apart from the others to receive that sort of backlash.


  • Options
    #184
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    RWCNT wrote: »
    The Guardian has been notorious for years for printing a lot of articles that have been described as transphobic. Curious to read this one and see what sets it apart from the others to receive that sort of backlash.

    described by whom?


  • Options
    #185
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    described by whom?

    Obviously trans-activist types


  • Options
    #186
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,777 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Everyday racism, gender neutral toilets, ribena instead of wine racism, preferred pronouns, all this problems no one seem to care about these days.
    Like, you know, they weren't real problems to begin with.


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  • Options
    #187
    jimmyrustle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭jimmyrustle


    conorhal wrote: »
    Pfffftt*


    Unlikely. Remember when FG promised a 'bonfire of the Quango's' after getting elected and the number of Quangos actually increased?
    https://www.thesun.ie/news/irish-news/408701/fine-gaels-failure-to-abolish-27-quangos-has-cost-e160million/
    They're still giving 160 million to 27 quangos that they promised to abolish FFS!

    The gravy train riding insiders always look after themselves and politicians would axe your pension before taking money off the race husslers for fear of being labed racist by The Irish Times.

    Everytime I hear one of these migrant council, refugee council, whatever council wasters interviewed, they all seem to be Brits.

    It's a bit like the old South Park underpants gnome joke.

    1- Graduate from a UK university with a pointless degree
    2- Move to Ireland and register yourself as the CEO of a migrants rights group
    3- ???
    4- Profit!


  • Options
    #188
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    jimmyrustle wrote: »
    Everytime I hear one of these migrant council, refugee council, whatever council wasters interviewed, they all seem to be Brits.

    It's a bit like the old South Park underpants gnome joke.

    1- Graduate from a UK university with a pointless degree
    2- Move to Ireland and register yourself as the CEO of a migrants rights group
    3- ???
    4- Profit!
    I noticed that too.
    British CEOs of Irish anti-racism-type NGOs talking down to us on TV. Based on our history, there is a 'little' irony in that.
    Of course, the likes of RTE adore these people, which is why we see and hear them chastise the Irish public so often.


  • Options
    #189
    Nesta2018
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Nesta2018


    RWCNT wrote: »
    The Guardian has been notorious for years for printing a lot of articles that have been described as transphobic. Curious to read this one and see what sets it apart from the others to receive that sort of backlash.

    They really haven't, it's the exact opposite. They've been hijacked by their US office and hardcore wokes like Owen Jones and have been full-scale transactivist for years. Such is the nature of the TRAs that they won't countenance even the barest acknowledgement that allowing men to declare themselves as women has an impact on women's rights to single sex spaces(sports and prisons are the most glaringly obvious examples). It's been #nodebate there for a long time, hence the over-reaction to Moore's article, which was actually quite mild and reasonable. And yes, it's part of a wider malady; the no-platforming, cancelling, bullying and stupidity of the Twitter era.


  • Options
    #190
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Peruvian Flake wrote: »
    There is billions to be made off "racism" or perceived racism.

    Hence why they expand the definition constantly.

    White women being the exclusive target of muslim rape gangs is probably the last visible example we have.

    I dont doubt there are individual racists thinking bad things but the overt racism and systematic racism is all gone in western europe.


  • Options
    #191
    Slowyourrole
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭Slowyourrole


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I dont doubt there are individual racists thinking bad things but the overt racism and systematic racism is all gone in western europe.


    I know you like the channel your inner Cartman but this is the stupidest thing you've ever said.


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    #192
    Slowyourrole
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭Slowyourrole


    AllForIt wrote: »
    2. The issue of racism has noting to do with concerns of immigration and the effects it has in society as seen in the UK. Happy to elaborate on what that means if anyone ask's.


    It does. When a crime is committed by an immigrant it is deemed to be somehow worse and indicative of an entire culture. When a crime is committed by a native white person it is considered to be indicative of bad parenting or soft justice. Immigrants don't get held to the same standard.



    AllForIt wrote: »
    3. The statement issued is contradictory. On the one had they talk of 'everyday' racism suggesting that somehow there is causal racism in Ireland (a socital acceptance of it etc.) while at the same time saying that they estimate most ppl in Ireland are open to immigration.


    You can be open to immigration and still see the immigrants as different or lesser.

    AllForIt wrote: »
    This 'everyday' casual racism accusation has really got on my nerves and imv is quite the insult in this time of solidarity.


    Did you think racism went away or people topped being targeted when major things happened. Racism is continuous. It doesn't take a break.


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Let't point out the obvious. Anyone who expresses even the slightest bit of concern regarding immigration is a racist according the Immigration Council of Ireland, and by supporters of multiculturalism.


    Can you provide a source for this thing you just made up?


    AllForIt wrote: »
    In the last few years in the UK accusations of racism has gone through the roof. Like never seen before even when Stephen Lawrence was murdered.

    Why is this? Is it the intention to wipe out racism. I don't think so. It has now become about gaining an advantage. For example a UK university in the UK paid money to Jamaica in some form. "Reparations" is what that was about and indeed a newly elected Labour 'woman of colour' stood up in parliament and demeaned same recently.


    Accusations have gone up because authorities are taking it more serious and victims have started realising it's not something they should be expected to just put up with.

    AllForIt wrote: »
    And the Immigration council of Ireland are in the same game. If not financial reparations then they are seeking some advantage whatever that might be, be it diversity quotas perhaps, or whatever, who knows, but some concrete advantage. And they don't mind insulting the Irish nation to get what they want. Utterly despicable.


    I would have though quotas would be a good thing for someone who thinks like you. They are a blunt implement to pretend you are addressing racism while being able to ignore the individuals who cause it.


  • Options
    #193
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Peruvian Flake wrote: »
    There is billions to be made off "racism" or perceived racism.

    Ever expanding industry


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    #194
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Cordell wrote: »
    Everyday racism, gender neutral toilets, ribena instead of wine racism, preferred pronouns, all this problems no one seem to care about these days.
    Like, you know, they weren't real problems to begin with.

    It all bodes very poorly for the social democrats if any election is held again this year


  • Options
    #195
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    I know you like the channel your inner Cartman but this is the stupidest thing you've ever said.

    Well... He's kinda right. Across Europe, not just Ireland, racism was on a decline. Racism now. Not nationalism. Not culturalism. Racism. Hatred or fear of a particular racial group. Institutionalised racism was, for the most part, illegal and could be challenged if people wished to do so (which is the only real way for change to be implemented).

    The problem is that with the rise of migration (refugees/asylum/economic), racism has made a comeback. It connected to the dislike or jealousy directed at migrants themselves, but it still contains a lot of racist behavior... but it's not solely racism at it's root.


  • Options
    #196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    It does. When a crime is committed by an immigrant it is deemed to be somehow worse and indicative of an entire culture. When a crime is committed by a native white person it is considered to be indicative of bad parenting or soft justice. Immigrants don't get held to the same standard.

    Rubbish. Collective responsibility is something thrown around quite a lot these days. If a white male kills a child, then all white males are considered potentially a threat. There is a degree of collective responsibility applied to everyone.. except minorities who gain a free pass.

    The exception is Islam, where collective responsibility can't be applied because... "reasons".

    Immigrants are never going to be held to the same standard as the dominant native population, while they remain external to that group. Which is why integration is so important, and yet, many migrants have zero interest in integrating.
    You can be open to immigration and still see the immigrants as different or lesser.

    Sure, you can. You can be anything at all.

    You can have two migrants standing together, and each of them might consider the other as different or lesser.
    Did you think racism went away or people topped being targeted when major things happened. Racism is continuous. It doesn't take a break.

    Racism doesn't because it's a concept. People do, and have changed. Systems have changed. Laws have changed. And given time, society changes.
    I would have though quotas would be a good thing for someone who thinks like you. They are a blunt implement to pretend you are addressing racism while being able to ignore the individuals who cause it.

    Individuals who cause it? How do you identify people who cause racism? After all, any suggestion that the victim is responsible is victim blaming.. and pointing to actions by their ethnic group is collective guilt, so, the recipient of racism is always getting a free pass. Regardless of the circumstances.

    You see, I live in China.. a city with 9 million people, with roughly 5k foreign residents. White people make up about 2k with the remainder being African or M.Eastern. Large population of Muslims.

    I could blame Chinese people or Chinese culture for the racism I receive.. but the truth is that a large degree of the reasons for that racism is due to the behavior of foreigners over the last few decades. A lot of foreigners misbehave or disrespect China/Chinese people.. and so we have collective responsibility, which feeds into the use of stereotypes.

    We really need to move away from this victim mentality that excuses victims from any responsibility either for themselves, or for their collective group. You said earlier about there being different standards... there are. It's a fact of life in many areas. Not least about victims and who can be determined as one.


  • Options
    #197
    Slowyourrole
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭Slowyourrole


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Rubbish. Collective responsibility is something thrown around quite a lot these days. If a white male kills a child, then all white males are considered potentially a threat. There is a degree of collective responsibility applied to everyone.. except minorities who gain a free pass.



    The exception is Islam, where collective responsibility can't be applied because... "reasons".


    This is pure fantasy. There are certain presumptions made in society but there has been no campaign against white males like there has against other groups. Will a lone white man near a kids playground be considered suspicious? Yes. Are groups protesting white immigrants or demanding they be sent home? No.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Immigrants are never going to be held to the same standard as the dominant native population, while they remain external to that group. Which is why integration is so important, and yet, many migrants have zero interest in integrating.

    And they will never fully integrate as long as they are treated differently. To expect otherwise is unreasonable.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Racism doesn't because it's a concept. People do, and have changed. Systems have changed. Laws have changed. And given time, society changes.

    Right, but it's not something that simply takes a sideline because there is a bigger issue.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Individuals who cause it? How do you identify people who cause racism?


    Propagate was the word I was looking for. Couldn't' think of it.

    Deleted User wrote: »
    We really need to move away from this victim mentality that excuses victims from any responsibility either for themselves, or for their collective group


    It's a complex issue. Group size, level of indoctrination and history all play a part. It can be difficult to see exactly where the line is. But it can be easy to see when things are far past it.


  • Options
    #198
    CageWager
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭CageWager


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    There are certain presumptions made in society but there has been no campaign against white males like there has against other groups.

    Feminism


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    #199
    Slowyourrole
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭Slowyourrole


    CageWager wrote: »
    Feminism


    Is that a new word you learned? Feminism is a campaign for equal rights. Like in all movements you will have radicals but the heart of feminism is helping women.


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    #200
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    This is pure fantasy. There are certain presumptions made in society but there has been no campaign against white males like there has against other groups. Will a lone white man near a kids playground be considered suspicious? Yes. Are groups protesting white immigrants or demanding they be sent home? No.





    And they will never fully integrate as long as they are treated differently. To expect otherwise is unreasonable.



    Right, but it's not something that simply takes a sideline because there is a bigger issue.




    Propagate was the word I was looking for. Couldn't' think of it.





    It's a complex issue. Group size, level of indoctrination and history all play a part. It can be difficult to see exactly where the line is. But it can be easy to see when things are far past it.

    "white male" almost has a slot in the Oxford English dictionary, under term of abuse

    It's thrown around by the left when describing situations that are regrettable and in need of change


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    #201
    Slowyourrole
    Registered Users Posts: 288 ✭✭Slowyourrole


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    "white male" almost has a slot in the Oxford English dictionary, under term of abuse


    Not even close.


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    #202
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    Nesta2018 wrote: »
    They really haven't, it's the exact opposite. They've been hijacked by their US office and hardcore wokes like Owen Jones and have been full-scale transactivist for years. Such is the nature of the TRAs that they won't countenance even the barest acknowledgement that allowing men to declare themselves as women has an impact on women's rights to single sex spaces(sports and prisons are the most glaringly obvious examples). It's been #nodebate there for a long time, hence the over-reaction to Moore's article, which was actually quite mild and reasonable. And yes, it's part of a wider malady; the no-platforming, cancelling, bullying and stupidity of the Twitter era.

    No, the Guardian has been publishing articles for ages that have rubbed people in trans activist circles up the wrong way. Granted, the offence has mainly been confined to twitter, reddit etc. That's why I'm surprised that this recent article has gotten so much attention.

    A few examples of articles The Guardian have gotten flack for in the past:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/27/trans-lobby-pressure-pushing-young-people-to-transition?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1564257964

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/17/the-guardian-view-on-the-gender-recognition-act-where-rights-collide

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/31/man-explains-what-means-be-woman?

    It's worth noting that despite what some may think, The Guardian doesn't present much in the way of a unified opinion on anything. It's a left-leaning paper, absolutely, but it's opinion pieces give voice to people across the left that don't agree with eachother. Another example would be how it's published opinion pieces from people both criticising and praising Jeremy Corbyn.


  • Options
    #203
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    This is pure fantasy. There are certain presumptions made in society but there has been no campaign against white males like there has against other groups. Will a lone white man near a kids playground be considered suspicious? Yes. Are groups protesting white immigrants or demanding they be sent home? No.

    What campaign has there been for other groups? I can't recall any campaigns highlighting crimes or bad behavior highlighted by Muslims, Black people etc. I can, however, point to advertisements which promote the male gender to be a risk to women or children.

    So... gimme. Gimme these campaigns of racism in Europe, but Ireland in particular.
    And they will never fully integrate as long as they are treated differently. To expect otherwise is unreasonable.

    Again, rubbish. (my way of expressing disagreement) If people are automatically accepted for their myriad range of differences, then there is no need to change, in any way, and therefore, they won't change.

    And that ignores that racism is often based on subconscious triggers which a person may not be aware that they have. Many people are unaware of how they behave towards one person versus another person. That's human nature, and it depends on a persons perception of the other person, and how their presence affects them. People to cling to behavior or mannerisms which are culturally alien will stand out. And those who stand out get targeted.

    I stand out. I have a shaking disorder which is quite noticeable. And through three decades of having it, I've been on the receiving end of insults, assaults, and discrimination. Why? Because I'm obviously different and don't fit into their view of reality... my difference means something to them. Something different for each person, but it's still there.

    The point is that integration, and not showing yourself as being different vastly reduces any friction with others.

    Right, but it's not something that simply takes a sideline because there is a bigger issue.

    Nope, but active and intentional racism was in decline in Europe until the waves of migration occurred. Why is that? After all, legal immigration happened naturally all the time, and there was very little friction. Even during recessions, legal migrants received far less agro than those who came later with the increased numbers of migrants. Why? What changed?
    Propagate was the word I was looking for. Couldn't' think of it.

    And?
    It's a complex issue. Group size, level of indoctrination and history all play a part. It can be difficult to see exactly where the line is. But it can be easy to see when things are far past it.

    It can be easy to decide your worldview at detecting offenses is greater than it is. People who go looking for trouble will find it. If you go looking for racism, then you'll find it.. because you're searching for it, and the standards of what suggests racism will be wide...


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    #204
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    Is that a new word you learned? Feminism is a campaign for equal rights. Like in all movements you will have radicals but the heart of feminism is helping women.

    Feminism is a campaign for women's rights promoted as equality, but doesn't stop once equality has been reached.

    Every cause needs an enemy to justify it's existance. The enemy of feminism is the male gender, through a bizarre fantasy called the Patriarchy, and privilege.. Feminism is the pushing of double standards and discrimination based on gender.

    First and second wave feminism was about equality. Very little that has happened since has been related to actual equality..


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    #205
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Cordell wrote: »
    Everyday racism, gender neutral toilets, ribena instead of wine racism, preferred pronouns, all this problems no one seem to care about these days.
    Like, you know, they weren't real problems to begin with.

    All symptoms of the same issue - narcissism.


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    #206
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    Is that a new word you learned? Feminism is a campaign for equal rights. Like in all movements you will have radicals but the heart of feminism is helping women.
    Those bold bits don't exactly join up. Then again, "feminism".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #207
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,269 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    Is that a new word you learned? Feminism is a campaign for equal rights. Like in all movements you will have radicals but the heart of feminism is helping women.

    Well it used to be. Now it's about equality of outcome rather equality of opportunity. Diversity quotes for example that I have heard prominent women in this country say is complete nonsense, thankfully.

    And btw, they might get more sympathy from me if they didn't bleat on about the 'patriarchy' or 'privilege'.

    It would seem to me if they really believe all that stuff then the only way they can get around it is by supplanting the patriarchy with a matriarchy, which I'm in no doubt some of them think is the solution, and thus equality is not what they are about.


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    #208
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Well it used to be. Now it's about equality of outcome rather equality of opportunity. Diversity quotes for example that I have heard prominent women in this country say is complete nonsense, thankfully.

    And btw, they might get more sympathy from me if they didn't bleat on about the 'patriarchy' or 'privilege'.

    It would seem to me if they really believe all that stuff then the only way they can get around it is by supplanting the patriarchy with a matriarchy, which I'm in no doubt some of them think is the solution, and thus equality is not what they are about.

    Agreed.

    Well, if you look at any place where diversity quotas were brought in and made successful, you'll find that males become a minority. Look at the advisory boards, or panels for organisations, and anytime a quota was put in place, men are pushed out to allow more women in... but they don't seek equal numbers. Instead, males will be removed entirely or a token male will remain as a gesture.

    Quotas are discriminatory by their very nature. Ireland is a country where girls do better than boys in secondary school, do better in University, have loads of initiatives in place to help them get jobs, etc. Anti-discrimination laws ensure that equal treatment is given, but.. quotas demand that equal treatment be suspended. Competition is no longer an allowable factor. Instead, everything must be handed to women on a silver platter.

    And that is feminism. Women's rights and women's issues.


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    #209
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    Are groups protesting white immigrants or demanding they be sent home? No.


    To continue your logic, consider why people aren't protesting immigrants from South East Asia be sent home

    Why are they excempt from this racism?

    When you start to understand the answer to this question; you start to realize racism is not at the heart of it. It's down to culture and adaptability.


  • Options
    #210
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Hence why they expand the definition constantly.

    White women being the exclusive target of muslim rape gangs is probably the last visible example we have.

    I dont doubt there are individual racists thinking bad things but the overt racism and systematic racism is all gone in western europe.

    Are you for real? You are guilty of it yourself


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    #211
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Are you for real? You are guilty of it yourself

    Examples please , and I mean the actual definition of racism, as in the pre trump one, not the new expanded one where you can't point out the many issues in certain communities or cultures who just happen to be of a different race.


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