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Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Spoke to my landlord. He said if a rent freeze came in, he would pass it down to us. We are paying the end of this month in full but will review for next month since things are changing day by day. Four of us in the house; One of which owns their own business (effectively has a salary of zero now), another took a 50% pay cut, the other two are unaffected. So we will more than likely need some kind of concession going forward.

    My housemates are under the impression that anything we don't pay, we will have to pay back in the future. I'm trying to convince them that isn't the case but they are dismissing me. I'm under the impression that if interests and mortgages are frozen, these (say) 3 months of freeze will be tacked onto the end of my LL's mortgage. Whoever is then in the property for those 3 months at the end of the mortgage will absorb the cost. Am I wrong? Obviously thinking about this selfishly right now.


    You're wrong I'm afraid or at least you are at the moment - it's a fluid situation. As it stands anything, including a deferral, is merely on a goodwill basis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    You would think that the whole country lives from.pay cheque to pay cheque.. surely that is not the case. People must have savings and these should be used in a time of need. Surely it can't be left up to the landlord to reduce rents as a solution. Most landlords have one or two properties it's hardly a business dropping in gold and diamonds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    It pains me to say it, it really does but I'm with Sinn Fein on this one. From what I understand if someone loses there job they're expected to get a rental supplement and pay that over to the LL. The LL is then to suspend their mortgage payments and use the supplement to cover the other costs such as management fee, insurance etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Spoke to my landlord. He said if a rent freeze came in, he would pass it down to us. We are paying the end of this month in full but will review for next month since things are changing day by day. Four of us in the house; One of which owns their own business (effectively has a salary of zero now), another took a 50% pay cut, the other two are unaffected. So we will more than likely need some kind of concession going forward.

    My housemates are under the impression that anything we don't pay, we will have to pay back in the future. I'm trying to convince them that isn't the case but they are dismissing me. I'm under the impression that if interests and mortgages are frozen, these (say) 3 months of freeze will be tacked onto the end of my LL's mortgage. Whoever is then in the property for those 3 months at the end of the mortgage will absorb the cost. Am I wrong? Obviously thinking about this selfishly right now.

    If mortgage payments are forgiven during this period. Then maybe you could do something of this style but they are not and ll will still need to pay whatever is owed and potentially more as interest and capital not paid during that time. In the same vain, you don’t get off Scott free either. Likewise what about if there is no mortgage on the property, do they just give you a property rent free for 3 months and you still expect them to maintain the property at the same time?

    I don’t know the updated notes yet around it as it’s going through the Seanad but that would be unfair on the ll. you are still getting a full service yet you expect to pay less during these months. It’s like your boss asking you to continue your job with 39hours a week but I will only pay you 50pc.

    I would expect it to be a deferral which would mean would mean that let’s say over the course of 3months you didn’t pay 1k. This payment would then be spread out at say 100-200e per month for the next few months until full paid off.

    Normally the term of a mortgage would remain the same but the ll will have their payments increase during the life time of the mortgage I would expect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    What are people keep saying if the mortgage paymest sdomt have to be paid for a period of time then pass that to the tenant. The landlord will pay for this.. why should a landlord pay for the tenant. If the state want to support the tenant that is fine but the landlord isn't made of money.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    7SGNFF wrote: »
    Today I spoke with the local branch of EBS by phone and they have effectively moved the goal posts by introducing exclusions. Their interpretation is that if the exclusions are not specificially mentioned then they are excluded e.g. Buy to Let is excluded therefore the LL would need to apply for 'interest only payment' over a specific time say 3 months. I asked where I can get a full list of the exclusions and was told this is an interpretation, they have no list to send me. The problem with this approach is the Mortgage Freeze is in General Terms while interpretation will chip away at this.

    Have to hope out tenant doesn't lose her ability to pay so, since our BTL mortgage with EBS is interest only...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    You would think that the whole country lives from.pay cheque to pay cheque.. surely that is not the case. People must have savings and these should be used in a time of need. Surely it can't be left up to the landlord to reduce rents as a solution. Most landlords have one or two properties it's hardly a business dropping in gold and diamonds.

    Considering how ridiculously high rent is in the country, yes, most of us are living paycheck to paycheck.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fol20 wrote: »
    If mortgage payments are forgiven during this period. Then maybe you could do something of this style but they are not and ll will still need to pay whatever is owed and potentially more as interest and capital not paid during that time. In the same vain, you don’t get off Scott free either. Likewise what about if there is no mortgage on the property, do they just give you a property rent free for 3 months and you still expect them to maintain the property at the same time?

    I don’t know the updated notes yet around it as it’s going through the Seanad but that would be unfair on the ll. you are still getting a full service yet you expect to pay less during these months. It’s like your boss asking you to continue your job with 39hours a week but I will only pay you 50pc.

    I would expect it to be a deferral which would mean would mean that let’s say over the course of 3months you didn’t pay 1k. This payment would then be spread out at say 100-200e per month for the next few months until full paid off.

    Normally the term of a mortgage would remain the same but the ll will have their payments increase during the life time of the mortgage I would expect.

    Thanks. That explains quite well what my housemates are thinking. I hope their employer will also pay them the income they lost after all this too. The buck had to stop somewhere I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    rawn wrote: »
    Considering how ridiculously high rent is in the country, yes, most of us are living paycheck to paycheck.

    Are you really ? You work in the public sector !! Job for life , no worries there


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭HartsHat


    Zulu wrote: »
    I'm an "accidental" landlord, not a capitalist, and I fully understand that this isn't business as usual.
    If my tenants lose their jobs, or god forbid one suffers the worst, I wont be seeking to evict, however, I have a family and children. I'm worried about me and mine also. I cant afford to sub bills for someone else during this. I only wish I had that kind of money.

    Sell your spare house, if you're so hard up.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    Call utility bill companys and explain your situation, thats what i did!

    Apart from spotify and phone bill I now have no bills due until May, and if i am not in a position to pay my bills come May, the companys will be told just that.

    So you can't afford your bills, yet you're going to continue paying for Spotify?
    Why don't you just cancel and use the free version for now?

    This is the type of thing that I'd imagine LL's are afraid of, people taking advantage of this situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    HartsHat wrote: »
    Sell your spare house, if you're so hard up.

    And you are assuming there is equity there


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    HartsHat wrote: »
    Sell your spare house, if you're so hard up.

    A lot of accidental landlords had properties that were in negative equity which is the reason they rented them out V's selling them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Thanks. That explains quite well what my housemates are thinking. I hope their employer will also pay them the income they lost after all this too. The buck had to stop somewhere I guess.

    The difference though is that if they are laid off. They are not working.

    With living in accommodation, you are still using the same service yet you expect to pay less. That’s why a comparable would be to work the same hours but be paid less.


  • Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭utmbuilder


    Rents of 2000+ always run an extremely high risk of being unsustainable at some point of the tenancy. Either from a rouge renter, job loss or a crisis. The risk factor is high and you have to be extremely lucky to not have a gap of payments of months on end.

    We just need to hope these landlords are not leveraged with loans from such high rents and its mainly revenue bills taking the lions share of their rental payments, as if you have little wiggle room with the bank and mortgages are over 900 monthly it presents real difficulty's over the period of the buy to let investment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    Are you really ? You work in the public sector !! Job for life , no worries there

    I don't. I'm waiting for a placement and when I do, the starting wage is quite low, while the average rent where I am is equal to my entire paycheck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    rawn wrote: »
    I don't. I'm waiting for a placement and when I do, the starting wage is quite low, while the average rent where I am is equal to my entire paycheck.


    Entry level public service is **** pay, 1 year probation and it's a myth no one gets sacked even after probation, there's one a month on our in my department.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Entry level public service is **** pay, 1 year probation and it's a myth no one gets sacked even after probation, there's one a month on our in my department.

    Never heard of anyone been fired from public service. You would want to be some dud for that to happen and be a bad one at that .


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,857 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    Got contacted by tenants looking for leniency on payment of rent next week as both their jobs have been put on hold for a few weeks.

    I could be the charitable member of society and say of course lets make a plan so they pay less rent and I have to give more of my personal income to cover the mortgage payment on the property until they say they can begin paying the rent in full again.

    Or

    I could be a business man and say:

    1. As the rent is due in less than 7 days I would have assumed you had the money already in place to make this payment
    2. Please both provide letters from your employers stating that your positions have been put on hold without pay for a duration, with the duration made.
    3. Are they applying for the COVID-19 unemployment payment of €350 a week each which will give them €700 a week which is nearly the months rent.
    4. They've been renting for a few years to save to buy their own house. Can they not use their savings to pay their bills?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    Got contacted by tenants looking for leniency on payment of rent next week as both their jobs have been put on hold for a few weeks.

    I could be the charitable member of society and say of course lets make a plan so they pay less rent and I have to give more of my personal income to cover the mortgage payment on the property until they say they can begin paying the rent in full again.

    Or

    I could be a business man and say:

    1. As the rent is due in less than 7 days I would have assumed you had the money already in place to make this payment
    2. Please both provide letters from your employers stating that your positions have been put on hold without pay for a duration, with the duration made.
    3. Are they applying for the COVID-19 unemployment payment of €350 a week each which will give them €700 a week which is nearly the months rent.
    4. They've been renting for a few years to save to buy their own house. Can they not use their savings to pay their bills?


    Chancing their arm I'd say.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    Got contacted by tenants looking for leniency on payment of rent next week as both their jobs have been put on hold for a few weeks.

    I could be the charitable member of society and say of course lets make a plan so they pay less rent and I have to give more of my personal income to cover the mortgage payment on the property until they say they can begin paying the rent in full again.

    Or

    I could be a business man and say:

    1. As the rent is due in less than 7 days I would have assumed you had the money already in place to make this payment
    2. Please both provide letters from your employers stating that your positions have been put on hold without pay for a duration, with the duration made.
    3. Are they applying for the COVID-19 unemployment payment of €350 a week each which will give them €700 a week which is nearly the months rent.
    4. They've been renting for a few years to save to buy their own house. Can they not use their savings to pay their bills?

    If they're getting the payment and the rent is that cheap I would agree with you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭HartsHat


    You would think that the whole country lives from.pay cheque to pay cheque.. surely that is not the case. People must have savings and these should be used in a time of need. Surely it can't be left up to the landlord to reduce rents as a solution. Most landlords have one or two properties it's hardly a business dropping in gold and diamonds.

    I'd imagine LLs have many multiples of the savings than tenants have. Certainly they should have.

    LLs don't like that the market and society have changed radically (and the power dynamics therein) over the past month and that their behaviour, as a group, over the past 5 years means they have no political or societal capital to draw on.

    C'est la vie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    This COVID 19 virus is starting to develop a new group of entitled, got a call yesterday from a tenant about getting a rent reduction because his hours has being cut, when i told him he could, but it would have to be paid back when things get back to normal, he looked surprised as someone told him he was entitled to it without having to pay it back.
    The same gent has a car worth 18-19k parked on the driveway but feels that i'm the one thats out of pocket.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    HartsHat wrote: »
    I'd imagine LLs have many multiples of the savings than tenants have. Certainly they should have.

    LLs don't like that the market and society have changed radically (and the power dynamics therein) over the past month and that their behaviour, as a group, over the past 5 years means they have no political or societal capital to draw on.

    C'est la vie.

    Why would they ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Why would they ?

    Landlords grow money on their money tree, didn’t you know that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    garhjw wrote: »
    Landlords grow money on their money tree, didn’t you know that?

    I heard that alright. You have been doing your homework.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    mgn wrote: »
    This COVID 19 virus is starting to develop a new group of entitled, got a call yesterday from a tenant about getting a rent reduction because his hours has being cut, when i told him he could, but it would have to be paid back when things get back to normal, he looked surprised as someone told him he was entitled to it without having to pay it back.
    The same gent has a car worth 18-19k parked on the driveway but feels that i'm the one thats out of pocket.

    Tell him to sell his car


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    mgn wrote: »
    This COVID 19 virus is starting to develop a new group of entitled, got a call yesterday from a tenant about getting a rent reduction because his hours has being cut, when i told him he could, but it would have to be paid back when things get back to normal, he looked surprised as someone told him he was entitled to it without having to pay it back.
    The same gent has a car worth 18-19k parked on the driveway but feels that i'm the one thats out of pocket.

    Thankfully I'm not a landlord.

    You as a landlord can get a break from your mortgage and not have to pay it but yet you're trying to gain on the double on the other side.

    Give the tenant some slack ffs you're not the sherif of Nottingham.

    Oh I can picture you there with your litte note book, ticking off the boxes.

    Maybe their cars paid for already.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    nthclare wrote: »
    You as a landlord can get a break from your mortgage and not have to pay it

    That's not my understanding of how it's going to work.

    I've seen plenty of discussion where the missed payments are added to the capital or the mortgage term is extended.

    Have you a source that suggests otherwise?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    HartsHat wrote: »
    I'd imagine LLs have many multiples of the savings than tenants have. Certainly they should have.

    LLs don't like that the market and society have changed radically (and the power dynamics therein) over the past month and that their behaviour, as a group, over the past 5 years means they have no political or societal capital to draw on.

    C'est la vie.

    5yrs lol. People have never liked Landlords. Nothing has changed there.

    We've had about 15 yrs of one sided legislation against Landlords for political point scoring. Landlord have had zero political influence.

    Many landlords are accidental and the vast majority have one property. Most will be using it as a form of pension and will make very little money until it matures.

    Not that aren't bad landlords and price gouging. Certainly are. But much of the negativity comes from media and politicians and most people have swallowed the click bait, hook line and sinker.

    People been complaining about the shrinking of rental supply for over a decade. But don't want to hear the reality of why that is. They prefer to believe politicians and tabloids.


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