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Saorview Connect

24567…113

Comments

  • #32
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    A fascinating prospect and one that SKY in particular will do its best to kill, rather than anyone in BBC or ITV. The shareholders are not idiots they know perfectly well that Ireland falls within its footprint and that thousands of boxes are in Irish homes already. Maybe its about time its was acknowledged and dealt with sensibly.

    If its a proper box for the interweb and has access to all the UK catch up services that would, even in a land of still lowish speeds for many be a real boon.


  • #33
    danm14
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭danm14


    Isn't there a possibility that these might be hardcoded with a certain, Irish "postcode", that only has the BBC channels and Channel 4 (no UTV/Channel 5, just like with Sky) as they don't seem to be too interested in broadcasting to Ireland for whatever reason? BBC and Channel 4 presumably have the rights issues sorted as they're on Sky, ITV and Channel 5 presumably don't.


  • #34
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,473 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Saorview recently published a revised version of its Minimum Receiver Requirements, version 6.

    This adds a HbbTV requirement to the Saorview receiver specification from 1st January 2016. HbbTV (freetime) is already part of the Freesat spec.

    This from Wikipedia
    In the UK, most broadcasters have not adopted the HbbTV standard but Freesat, the free-to-air satellite TV service broadcast via Astra 28.2°E, has revealed that the second generation "G2" specification for Freesat receivers will use HbbTV, to take advantage of the digital TV chipsets being developed for that standard (but retaining MHEG-5 compatibility of the first generation Freesat receivers).


  • #35
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Often wondered why we never had such an STB.
    Why have Freeview and Freesat not had a combo box in the past?


  • #36
    channelsurfer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭channelsurfer2


    It may be that it will be a Saorview branded box with a simple add-on satellite tuner and IPTV connected for the RTE player etc. I wouldn't get carried away about Freesat EPG just yet.


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  • #37
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,473 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    Why have Freeview and Freesat not had a combo box in the past?

    It wasn't required, both services carried the same or similar offerings and the market was probably too small to justify the cost of such a box there.

    Recently Freesat have started licensing their epg outside the UK under their FreeTV Alliance agreement and now it appears they're removing their Ireland restriction.

    http://cdn.freesat.co.uk/freesat/freesat_website/content/downloadables/freetime-announces-metaphor.pdf
    Freesat puts Freetime EPG to work in Europe

    UK free-to-air satellite platform Freesat has licensed the technology underlying its hybrid Freetime TV guide to Italy's Tivusat to launch a new OTT service.

    The EPG is being marketed to platforms outside the UK under the Metaphor brand and includes a companion application for Android and iOS.


  • #38
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    channelsurfer2 wrote:
    It may be that it will be a Saorview branded box with a simple add-on satellite tuner and IPTV connected for the RTE player etc. I wouldn't get carried away about Freesat EPG just yet.


    Possibly similar to the Walker combo with three epg's, hopefully the new box will work better this time.
    The Walker saorsat approved box already works well with Freesat/satfree epg and a second epg for other sat/saorsat. The Internet function is not working on this box on Itv player at the moment.


  • #39
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    FRIENDO wrote: »
    Often wondered why we never had such an STB.
    Why have Freeview and Freesat not had a combo box in the past?
    Freesat's intention was to act as a multi-channel service to those in Freeview black spots or tricky reception areas. However it's managed to evolve into a worthy platform in its own right especially as it was able to deliver BBC & ITV HD services quicker than many parts of the UK got from terrestrial.

    The reason a Freeview/Freesat STB has not been commercially available is that there just isn't a demand for one, there's only a few channels on Freeview that aren't FTA on Freesat, mainly the UKTV channels and 4Music off the top of my head.


  • #40
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Apogee wrote: »
    I'd hazard a guess that any combi box that might result from this partnership would have separate Saorview and Freesat EPGs. I'd imagine both parties might be anxious to keep their branding separate to an extent.
    I'd suspect that if such a project did come to fruition, that's what would happen. However it would be technically possible to use the Freesat EPG in a way that by having the Republic of Ireland as a 'postcode' that it would trigger a terrestrial scan on a receiver with the right firmware to look for the relevant Saorview channels via PID and subsequently add these to the EPG at 101-105 with the relevant UK channels in this position moved somewhere else in the EPG. Either way for such a system to comfortably work for time shifting it'll need four tuners minimum (2xDVB-T(2) & 2xDVB-S2).


  • #41
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    What about BBC iPlayer - will the geoblock be lifted?
    I wouldn't get your hopes up - the BBC is already having to dig itself in with negotiations for its charter renewal against a government in Westminster that would ideally like to strip it right down. Lifting geoblocks to the iPlayer would leave the likes of Daily Mail readers frothing about "freeloading paddies" they same way they cried about the BBC potentially launching a (limited) European iPlayer subscription service.


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  • #42
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭JTMan


    The Cush wrote: »
    No, as the tender said "RTÉ is seeking to evolve the SAORVIEW platform to incorporate open internet IP connectivity" and Freesat would be an added bonus.

    This from the original tender

    Thanks. Will the offering therefore incorporate both IPTV and satellite delivery?


  • #43
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,473 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    JTMan wrote: »
    Will the offering therefore incorporate both IPTV and satellite delivery?

    That's the assumption but we'll have to for the announcement for the actual details.


  • #44
    reubenreuben
    Registered Users Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭reubenreuben


    I can't see how this will work with program rights for both UK and ireland.

    Or they replace the programs from the channels that don't have the rights.


  • #45
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,473 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reubenreuben wrote: »
    I can't see how this will work with program rights for both UK and ireland.

    Or they replace the programs from the channels that don't have the rights.

    The channels are already available FTA here, all Freesat does is put then into a logical order via the epg.


  • #46
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Freesat EPG has got itself into a mess. They have to sort out the HD provision for England so that BBC1 HD can be on 101, with BBC 2 HD on 102. They have lost all logic with ITV HD on 119 but ITV SD on 103, etc. They have also allowed new additions to be tacked onto the end of the list making for no logical order.

    If Saorview can be added, it would make more logic to put them in the same order as here :- RTE 1 HD as 1, RTE 1 +1 as 11, RTE News Now as 21, etc. Maybe Freesat could copy the logic 2RN/RTE have adopted.

    The software can sort out the numbers, and the EPGs - it is not rocket science - or is it? There are rockets in there somewhere.


  • #47
    steveon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭steveon


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The Freesat EPG has got itself into a mess. They have to sort out the HD provision for England so that BBC1 HD can be on 101, with BBC 2 HD on 102. They have lost all logic with ITV HD on 119 but ITV SD on 103, etc. They have also allowed new additions to be tacked onto the end of the list making for no logical order.

    If Saorview can be added, it would make more logic to put them in the same order as here :- RTE 1 HD as 1, RTE 1 +1 as 11, RTE News Now as 21, etc. Maybe Freesat could copy the logic 2RN/RTE have adopted.

    The software can sort out the numbers, and the EPGs - it is not rocket science - or is it? There are rockets in there somewhere.

    Totally agree they stated they were going to do this well over 18 months ago but still havent adopted it properly

    http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/bbc-hd-channels-move-positions-freesat/


  • #48
    reubenreuben
    Registered Users Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭reubenreuben


    The Cush wrote: »
    The channels are already available FTA here, all Freesat does is put then into a logical order via the epg.

    Yes but all the channels on Freesat at present are for a UK market not Ireland. We are just blessed to be very close by so we can receive them.

    If they start carrying Irish channels then why should they not be able to carry other european channels too.

    It probably won't happen to due to the border rights or it will be an irish epg version not showing all programs via a different satellite such as the one used for saorsat. But then why not just watch the Fta channels direct from satellite using a Fta box in that case


  • #49
    steveon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭steveon


    reubenreuben wrote: »
    Yes but all the channels on Freesat at present are for a UK market not Ireland. We are just blessed to be very close by so we can receive them.

    If they start carrying Irish channels then why should they not be able to carry other european channels too.

    Freesat have now started to make the epg guides for other operators so I think its all a good start and I look forward and welcome all new boxes....one with the irish and freesat channels has long been overlooked


  • #50
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,473 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reubenreuben wrote: »
    Yes but all the channels on Freesat at present are for a UK market not Ireland. We are just blessed to be very close by so we can receive them.

    If they start carrying Irish channels then why should they not be able to carry other european channels too.

    The rights holders are aware of the overspill into Ireland and continental Europe and this would be included in the rights cost.

    freesat won't be carrying the Irish channels, they are designing and developing a Saorview terrestrial receiver which will incorporate the Saorview Connected-TV specification and according to the ST article Freesat as a an added feature.


  • #51
    reubenreuben
    Registered Users Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭reubenreuben


    The Cush wrote: »
    The rights holders are aware of the overspill into Ireland and continental Europe and would be included in the cost.

    freesat won't be carrying the Irish channels, they are designing and developing a Saorview terrestrial receiver which will incorporate the Saorview Connected-TV specification and according to the ST article Freesat as a an added feature.

    But how will that affect broadcast rights as Freesat would then be basically making all the UK channels available in Ireland for no extra licence fee.
    I know they can be received anyhow via fta but they are still designed for the UK market only. This will change everything.
    Is this a way for RTE to enable more money from the rumoured new 'broadcast charge'?


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  • #52
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Vestel announced a STB box for Freesat at TV connect back in April.

    As part of their new line these include the Freetime EPG system which enables the ability of going back 7 days to watch missed programs. Its a twin dvb-s2 and has a full SDK for HTML5 web browser/DRM rtmpe playback streams etc)

    This is most likely being adapted for the Irish market except with a working RTE Player (akin to OnDemand availble on Linux boxes already)

    As Apogee states I would imagine that the EPG's of Saorview and Freesat will not be merged and will be stand alone which would be a pity, but they would be a nightmare to code.

    They have a model in development called the S7850 - the afore mentioned Freesat one. In their 2016 product catologue there is a TSC7800.

    vestel-receiver.gif


  • #53
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,473 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reubenreuben wrote: »
    But how will that affect broadcast rights as Freesat would then be basically making all the UK channels available in Ireland for no extra licence fee.
    I know they can be received anyhow via fta but they are still designed for the UK market only. This will change everything.

    If we're to believe what's written in the article these issues have been sorted, the thing to remember is the programming is already available here and all Freesat does is put it into a logical order. Every box sold here will probably include a Freesat royalty/licence fee.


  • #54
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    The Cush wrote: »
    If we're to believe what's written in the article these issues have been sorted, the thing to remember is the programming is already available here and all Freesat does is put it into a logical order. Every box sold here will probably include a Freesat royalty/licence fee.

    Bet they don't mention Freesat whatsoever.

    A new brand name.


  • #55
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,473 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    STB. wrote: »
    but they would be a nightmare to code.

    I would have a lot more faith in Freesat to get this right than the trio of Saorview/Walker/Teracom Testing when it came to the lonesome Saorview PVR.


  • #56
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    reubenreuben wrote: »
    But how will that affect broadcast rights as Freesat would then be basically making all the UK channels available in Ireland for no extra licence fee.
    I know they can be received anyhow via fta but they are still designed for the UK market only. This will change everything.
    Is this a way for RTE to enable more money from the rumoured new 'broadcast charge'?
    Unlikely such a provision will run in to too many problems if the Dutch & Flemish experience is anything to go by - Canal Digitaal & TV Vlaanderen already market a triple-lnb monoblock with either one or four outputs designed to receive 19.2 East, 23.5 East & 28.2 East on the one dish.

    TRIPLELNB.JPG

    The present CD EPG has BBC One HD on channel 101 along with BBC Two HD, ITV1 HD, Channel 4 HD, CBBC HD, CBeebies HD, BBC Three HD & BBC Four HD, with a host of other associated channels e.g. ITV2, E4 etc. higher up the EPG along with many FTA broadcasters on 28.2 East as well.

    https://www.canaldigitaal.nl/uploadedfiles/content/others/canaldigitaal-hd-zenderlijst-tv-radio.pdf


  • #57
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The Freesat EPG has got itself into a mess. They have to sort out the HD provision for England so that BBC1 HD can be on 101, with BBC 2 HD on 102. They have lost all logic with ITV HD on 119 but ITV SD on 103, etc. They have also allowed new additions to be tacked onto the end of the list making for no logical order.

    If Saorview can be added, it would make more logic to put them in the same order as here :- RTE 1 HD as 1, RTE 1 +1 as 11, RTE News Now as 21, etc. Maybe Freesat could copy the logic 2RN/RTE have adopted.

    The software can sort out the numbers, and the EPGs - it is not rocket science - or is it? There are rockets in there somewhere.
    The big problem ATM is that none of the BBC One regions are HD yet on satellite, and only a few ITV1 regions are on HD. Similarly there is no BBC Two version for NI, Scotland or Wales yet. The Sky EPG also has these problems regarding regions. Basically, you can't allocate what isn't there for now.


  • #58
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    TAFKAlawhec wrote: »
    The big problem ATM is that none of the BBC One regions are HD yet on satellite, and only a few ITV1 regions are on HD. Similarly there is no BBC Two version for NI, Scotland or Wales yet. The Sky EPG also has these problems regarding regions. Basically, you can't allocate what isn't there for now.

    BBC One HD (No region) 10847
    BBC One NI HD 10847
    BBC One ScotHD 11023
    BBC One WalHD 11023

    The SD's are 720 x 576.

    The biggest problem is combining sources from 2 LCNs into one. Cannot be done, especially when the Saorview end has varying frequency inputs throughout the country.


  • #59
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    STB. wrote: »
    BBC One HD (No region) 10847
    BBC One NI HD 10847
    BBC One ScotHD 11023
    BBC One WalHD 11023

    The SD's are 720 x 576.

    The biggest problem is combining sources from 2 LCNs into one. Cannot be done, especially when the Saorview end has varying frequency inputs throughout the country.
    Sorry, I was meant to say that there are no BBC One English regions currently on satellite. I'm not even sure if all the BBC regional studios have been fully upgraded to HD yet.

    As for combining "2 LCNs into one", of course it can be done - you would be seeking for the appropriate SID or PID etc. in the DVB-T multiplex to add, whilst in its original scan should it be the case that multiple versions of the multiplex are present then it should either automatically select the strongest frequency or at least offer the viewer a choice if it is set up properly.


  • #60
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    steveon wrote: »
    Freesat have now started to make the epg guides for other operators so I think its all a good start and I look forward and welcome all new boxes....one with the irish and freesat channels has long been overlooked
    I'm very dubious that Freesat will ever be part of a Saorview STB platform.

    What I do deem likely, is what you've said there, that Freesat are being asked/paid to make an EPG akin to the Freesat one for Saorview, specifically with a Freetime type roll-back EPG, for watching stuff already over.

    There will most likely be a FTA tuner in the box, but I'm doubtful it'll be Freesat...


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  • #61
    steveon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,905 ✭✭✭steveon


    byte wrote: »
    I'm very dubious that Freesat will ever be part of a Saorview STB platform.

    What I do deem likely, is what you've said there, that Freesat are being asked/paid to make an EPG akin to the Freesat one for Saorview, specifically with a Freetime type roll-back EPG, for watching stuff already over.

    There will most likely be a FTA tuner in the box, but I'm doubtful it'll be Freesat...

    Id have to agree with you but we can live in hope it would be simply brilliant if you could press the epg guide and have an irish section wouldnt matter what number the channel was on just so long as user friendly ...it would be a winner for both customers and us installers out there...as well as a huge sales plus for stores...


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