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Low income couple on a non-state pension

  • 10-06-2019 5:16am
    #1
    RoYoBo
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭


    My cousin and her husband are 64 and 66 respectively. He retired early (due to disability) with a local authority pension a few years ago. She has had random periods of employment over the years, but has never claimed any state benefits. She was last employed in 2010 and has been unable to secure anything since. Unfortunately, she never signed for credits, then or since, though she has spent time rearing children at home.

    His pension is 405 per week and they have joint savings currently standing at 28k. Their savings have become depleted over the years, helping out their adult (working) children with rent, mortgage and childcare expenses and propping up their own day-to-day living. They own their own home but do not have a medical or GP card, so the cost of healthcare for them both is not inconsiderable now. His medication alone costs 120 per month – below the level to qualify for the drugs payment scheme.

    Based on calculations I’ve seen on here and trying to negotiate the welfare site, I think they might be entitled to claim something from social welfare, but I’m not confident I’m right. Nor do I know which of them should actually make an application, nor, indeed, what exactly they should apply for? His PRSI contributions were some kind of old type payments – Class D?

    Is there anyone on here who could help me advise them? Neither of them are very computer literate and my cousin is reluctant to go through the process of applying unless I can tell her she has some chance of success.

    Tl;dr – couple with a non-state pension income of 405 per week and 28k joint savings – any state help?


Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    RoYoBo wrote: »
    My cousin and her husband are 64 and 66 respectively. He retired early (due to disability) with a local authority pension a few years ago. She has had random periods of employment over the years, but has never claimed any state benefits. She was last employed in 2010 and has been unable to secure anything since. Unfortunately, she never signed for credits, then or since, though she has spent time rearing children at home.

    His pension is 405 per week and they have joint savings currently standing at 28k. Their savings have become depleted over the years, helping out their adult (working) children with rent, mortgage and childcare expenses and propping up their own day-to-day living. They own their own home but do not have a medical or GP card, so the cost of healthcare for them both is not inconsiderable now. His medication alone costs 120 per month – below the level to qualify for the drugs payment scheme.


    Based on calculations I’ve seen on here and trying to negotiate the welfare site, I think they might be entitled to claim something from social welfare, but I’m not confident I’m right. Nor do I know which of them should actually make an application, nor, indeed, what exactly they should apply for? His PRSI contributions were some kind of old type payments – Class D?

    Is there anyone on here who could help me advise them? Neither of them are very computer literate and my cousin is reluctant to go through the process of applying unless I can tell her she has some chance of success.

    Tl;dr – couple with a non-state pension income of 405 per week and 28k joint savings – any state help?


    Tell them to pay a visit to their local Citizens information. They are experts in all of this and will them them what they’re entitled to and how to apply for same.


  • #3
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    As their current income is above the non con pension rate, they will not get any non con pension. This will be different when she becomes 66.
    I assume he has free travel. They should apply for a medical card and house insurance will be taken into account as well as their medical conditions.


  • #4
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,014 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    The C.I information is here https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html but it is quite complex and I agree that the best route would be for you or them to go to the Citizens Advice office and ask for help sorting it.

    Edit: she may just miss out on the 66 age cut off and be in the 67 group.


  • #5
    coffeyt
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭coffeyt


    Don't quote me on this but if the 64 year old is not currently working then the 66 year old can apply for a pension and claim for the 64 year old as a dependant adult.
    If the 66 has stamps they can claim the contributory pension (not means tested) otherwise they will have to apply for non contributory which is means tested but going off the amounts you have given they should be entitled to something as their private pension is divided in 2 for calculating means.
    Can't remember the age for those but I think it is 67 but they advise applying a few months before that as it can take about 3 months to get.
    They really should speak to citizens info to get the correct info.


  • #6
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    coffeyt wrote: »
    Don't quote me on this but if the 64 year old is not currently working then the 66 year old can apply for a pension and claim for the 64 year old as a dependant adult.
    If the 66 has stamps they can claim the contributory pension (not means tested) otherwise they will have to apply for non contributory which is means tested but going off the amounts you have given they should be entitled to something as their private pension is divided in 2 for calculating means.
    Can't remember the age for those but I think it is 67 but they advise applying a few months before that as it can take about 3 months to get.
    They really should speak to citizens info to get the correct info.

    He has an LA pension already of 405. Because he only has D stamps he’s not entitled to a state con pension. The non con pension is means tested. If he had no pension at all and less then 20000 savings then he could apply for the non con and they would get 393.60 as a couple. But because they already have 405, that amount is subtracted cent for cent from the non con rate. So they would get nothing.
    If the OP could confirm that the retired man only ever had D stamps?


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Not much point in questions and speculation here and everyone throwing in their tuppence worth . This is really only answerable on a case by case basis. All the facts and figures need to be gone through in a face to face meeting with Cit Info.

    I worked for them for 2 years and this constituted most of my daily work. It’s also the quickest route. Very hard to do it alone, and sometimes it depends who you get in DSP offices or on phone. Wrong information can cause unnecessary worry too for older couples as this might be their first time ever applying for anything.

    Cit Info will even help with form filling.


  • #8
    coffeyt
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭coffeyt


    splinter65 wrote: »
    He has an LA pension already of 405. Because he only has D stamps he’s not entitled to a state con pension. The non con pension is means tested. If he had no pension at all and less then 20000 savings then he could apply for the non con and they would get 393.60 as a couple. But because they already have 405, that amount is subtracted cent for cent from the non con rate. So they would get nothing.
    If the OP could confirm that the retired man only ever had D stamps?

    I speak from experience with regards my own parents, now their private pension is slightly less than the 405 above but I would think it's worth speaking to citizens info regarding the non contributory as when my parents were in an identical situation they got some non contributory pension, I'm 100% when there are 2 people involved the private pension is viewed as half for means testing as its split between two. Now granted it was not a huge amount but every little helps and if they do get something it means they are on the system and could see about fuel allowance, household benefits etc.


  • #9
    coffeyt
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭coffeyt


    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/means_test_for_social_welfare_payments/assessing_the_means_of_a_couple.html

    Link above 're means test for non contributory pension.

    Going off that link on the figures given their means would be calculated as approx €207 (€405 + €9(savings) = €414/2) which is below the amount that would allow them to qualify.
    I think I've calculated correctly but as previously stated they need to call citizens info as soon as possible as the sooner they apply the better as its not back dated.

    And thinking further on it I'm not sure they would take the savings into account as divided by 2 that's under the 20,000 threshold so that would make their means even less.


  • #10
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    coffeyt wrote: »
    I speak from experience with regards my own parents, now their private pension is slightly less than the 405 above but I would think it's worth speaking to citizens info regarding the non contributory as when my parents were in an identical situation they got some non contributory pension, I'm 100% when there are 2 people involved the private pension is viewed as half for means testing as its split between two. Now granted it was not a huge amount but every little helps and if they do get something it means they are on the system and could see about fuel allowance, household benefits etc.

    The problem is that he is the only one eligible to apply for non con pension as she is not 66. So he can apply for a state non con for both of them which is means tested. The most he would get for both of them is 393.60.
    As he already has 405, and the 405 is counted euro for euro, then he exceeds the means and is not entitled to anything.
    Even the 28000 savings is counted as another €8.
    When she is 66 she can apply for a non con in her own right and only 1/2 his 405 will be considered. Even then she won’t get very much.


  • #11
    coffeyt
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭coffeyt


    We will have to agree to disagree as when they means tested my parents (father being 67, retired private pension and mother 62, not working and no income of her own) they only took half of their private pension as means not the full amount.


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  • #12
    RoYoBo
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭RoYoBo


    Thank you so much to all who replied. I have advised them to go to Citizen's information, as I see that it's not at all straightforward. The husband has only ever had Class D stamps, which, I believe only qualifies him to get extra if he becomes a widower? So he will actually have more money if his wife dies, according to him! My cousin says she'll have to watch her back :o

    She will get this contributory pension payment if he dies, but the pension he had will be halved, so her income will be about the same. I know they're not really too badly off and I hope they start holding back on the support they give their children, but I don't think they will.

    I believe he has applied for free travel, but he has to wait until he gets a Public Services card first. They live in a very rural area with zero public transport, so, unfortunately, it's not hugely beneficial to them.


  • #13
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    Just to clarify, the drug payment scheme card is not a financial assessment. Everyone is entitled to it providing they are resident in Ireland and apply for it.


    And for clarity, they can have upto 72k in savings without declaring it in regards to medical and gp card.


    I would seriously recommend applying for the medical card.


  • #14
    RoYoBo
    Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭RoYoBo


    dartboardio wrote: »
    Just to clarify, the drug payment scheme card is not a financial assessment. Everyone is entitled to it providing they are resident in Ireland and apply for it.


    And for clarity, they can have upto 72k in savings without declaring it in regards to medical and gp card.


    I would seriously recommend applying for the medical card.

    Thank you dartboardio. Unfortunately, Citizen's Advice say they won't qualify for a medical card based on their income/expenses. If their income included a social welfare payment of any kind, they would. It seems they probably will qualify for the GP visit card, so that's next on the agenda.

    They are also not benefiting from the Drugs Payment scheme as his medications are just under the limit of 124 per month and she (as yet) needs nothing and rarely ever goes to the doctor.


  • #15
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    RoYoBo wrote: »
    Thank you dartboardio. Unfortunately, Citizen's Advice say they won't qualify for a medical card based on their income/expenses. If their income included a social welfare payment of any kind, they would. It seems they probably will qualify for the GP visit card, so that's next on the agenda.

    They are also not benefiting from the Drugs Payment scheme as his medications are just under the limit of 124 per month and she (as yet) needs nothing and rarely ever goes to the doctor.



    Ah, i see.

    I was going to recommend if any of them were on any medication whatsoever, that causes a burden, financially, to provide a medical report from their GP and they may get the medical card on a discretionary basis after they provide their financials on an application.

    Best of luck anyway. If he is on medication, again you can provide a medical report with their joint application, he may get it based on medical grounds and she may get a gp card/nothing etc.


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