Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Geuze · 01-02-2019 11:56am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

how much of this money went to social welfare spending after the crash, and if so why?

the crash was way more complicated that two entities, but you ll find public expenditure played very little in its occurrence. i have reason to believe we were in fact a surplus country before the crash, i may stand corrected on this though, again,

You are correct, we were not running large budget deficits before the Great Recession.

However, we had become dependent on unsustainable sources of tax.

coolshannagh28 · 01-02-2019 11:57am

Miike wrote: »

I can only assume they could see the benefit of it but I'm not sure. Their grade is non clinical and non patient facing so in an ideal world I'd hope they didn't but

If so it would indicate that frontline nurses are a Trojan horse for nurses of all grades and inevitably the rest of the PS/CS.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 11:58am

Geuze wrote: »

You are correct, we were not running large budget deficits before the Great Recession.

However, we had become dependent on unsustainable sources of tax.

which has been ongoing for a very long term, even before the crash, most notable taxes such as stamp duty etc

eagle eye · 01-02-2019 12:03pm

facehugger99 wrote:

But we're still saddled with Rolls Royce pay and pensions for the public service.

The majority of public servants are not on big money. The big problem is % pay increases which is widening the gap between the lower paid and higher paid public servants. A clerical officer with 20 years service is on just under 40k euro per year. If you call that Rolls Royce pay then you are delusional. So let's say they get a 2% increase, that's about 15-16 euro per week. A secretary general will get the same % but his will be worth about 80 euro per week. What's happening here is a widening gap in salaries. Those at the top of the chain are costing the state a lot of money. They were already being paid enough, I'd personally say too much, but they get the same % pay rise as the ordinary man on small wages.

01-02-2019 12:15pm

Miike wrote: »

Nice try, but I'll play because clearly literacy is outside the realm of possibility for you.

Let's make it real simple, so you can keep up.
You think it's fair the include directors/assistant directors in the average wage for a nurse? Just because they were nurses one time does not mean they do nursing work, its very bloody simple. Now let's try again... if I took your wage and added the director level salaries of your company to it and got an average. Do you think it would accurately represent your salary for people who do you the exact same job as you?

I wouldn't get too worked up about it -with many thousands of nurses and a few dozen or so Nursing Directors, their pay is going to add very little to the average anyway. But the point is - it is an across the board increase that the unions are fighting for - for everyone!

Of course , CNMs and CNSs must be included in the average. Just because you haven't reached this grade yet is irrelevant. It is part of the nurses progression ladder. And they all want the increase. (I take it that this strike is not just about getting a pay increase for you!)

01-02-2019 12:21pm

eagle eye wrote: »

....... A clerical officer with 20 years service is on just under 40k euro per year..............

But it's a €12/hour job at most.
€40k is a large salary for doing low skilled work.
It's €ks more than what loads of nurses basic salary is............. I can see why nurses think they are underpaid when there are loads of useless goons getting €40k/annum to work in motor tax offices etc.

Miike · 01-02-2019 12:28pm

1641 wrote: »

I wouldn't get too worked up about it -with many thousands of nurses and a few dozen or so Nursing Directors, their pay is going to add very little to the average anyway. But the point is - it is an across the board increase that the unions are fighting for - for everyone!

Of course , CNMs and CNSs must be included in the average. Just because you haven't reached this grade yet is irrelevant. It is part of the nurses progression ladder. And they all want the increase. (I take it that this strike is not just about getting a pay increase for you!)

A few dozen or so ADON/DON? Have you flipped your lid? Theres an ADON for Bad Weather at this stage.

I'm not a nurse either.

01-02-2019 12:39pm

Miike wrote: »

A few dozen or so ADON/DON? Have you flipped your lid? Theres an ADON for Bad Weather at this stage.

I'm not a nurse either.

Thanks - I didn't know that. Then they must be included in calculating the average annual wage paid to a nurse. The strike is not just for the lower paid.

salonfire · 01-02-2019 1:39pm

I think the only option left to the Government is to tax the bejasus out of us all.. 60%,70%,80%.. When the inevitable protests and objections arise, they can point to the ever demanding spending on free water, free housing and public sector pay demands.

Only that will change the narrative in this country once and for all and soften the 'support' for the looney left spending.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 1:43pm

salonfire wrote: »

I think the only option left to the Government is to tax the bejasus out of us all.. 60%,70%,80%.. When the inevitable protests and objections arise, they can point to the ever demanding spending on free water, free housing and public sector pay demands.

Only that will change the narrative in this country once and for all and soften the 'support' for the looney left spending.

maybe we can implement wealth capturing mechanisms such as sovereign wealth funds and land value taxes etc?

very few individuals pay no taxes in this country, including the unemployed,
theres effectively no such thing as free water, free housing and other free public services.

01-02-2019 1:59pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

maybe we can implement wealth capturing mechanisms such as sovereign wealth funds and land value taxes etc?

very few individuals pay no taxes in this country, including the unemployed,
theres effectively no such thing as free water, free housing and other free public services.

Maybe we should just invite Maduro over to advise on how to implement his "economics" here? He is likely to be out of a job (and a country) shortly anyway.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 2:01pm

1641 wrote: »

Maybe we should just invite Maduro over to advise on how to implement his "economics" here? He is likely to be out of a job (and a country) shortly anyway.

no thanks, theres plenty of intelligent people here that potentially have some good ideas to move us forward, sadly our political class have little or no interest in these opinions though, leading me to believe, very little is gonna change here in the short to possibly medium term

salonfire · 01-02-2019 2:05pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

no thanks, theres plenty of intelligent people here that potentially have some good ideas to move us forward, sadly our political class have little or no interest in these opinions though, leading me to believe, very little is gonna change here in the short to possibly medium term

Which country do you think Ireland should follow?

01-02-2019 2:07pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

..............
theres effectively no such thing as free water, free housing and other free public services.

It's largely free to those receiving it...........
If you are on the scratch and paying €30/week out of your dole for living where you live than it's free to you.......... so too all of the public services availed off, medical card etc etc

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 2:07pm

salonfire wrote: »

Which country do you think Ireland should follow?

why not forge our own direction and identity, we have the people and the intelligence to do this, but of course we can use approaches and ideas from other nations also, do we always have to be following others?

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 2:09pm

Augeo wrote: »

It's largely free to those receiving it...........
If you are on the scratch and paying €30/week out of your dole for living where you live than it's free to you.

largely free, isnt exactly the same as free, then of course there are taxes such as consumption taxes etc, which most, if not all pay, including the unemployed. again, why is housing and accommodation so expensive?

01-02-2019 2:15pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

largely free, isnt exactly the same as free, then of course there are taxes such as consumption taxes etc, which most, if not all pay, including the unemployed. again, why is housing and accommodation so expensive?

OK, for someone who has never worked or just worked for a year or three. Who then ends up longterm unemployed and is housed by the state and given social welfare payments.................... they are living for free.

Housing and accommodation being expensive has nothing to do with it being free or not. In the recession housing was cheap, folk on the scratch who never worked anyway were still in free to them accommodation.

I used the term largely as some fncktards might argue that the state recieve money back off these folk in the form of VAT etc from their purchases (consumption charges as you said). They are a gross and net cost though so are living for free (to them).

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 2:20pm

Augeo wrote: »

OK, for someone who has never worked or just worked for a year or three. Who then ends up longterm unemployed and is housed by the state and given social welfare payments.................... they are living for free.

Housing and accommodation being expensive has nothing to do with it being free or not. In the recession housing was cheap, folk on the scratch who never worked anyway were still in free to them accommodation.

I used the term largely as some fncktards might argue that the state recieve money back off these folk in the form of VAT etc from their purchases (consumption charges as you said). They are a gross and net cost though so are living for free (to them).

again, the overall question is, why is housing and accommodation so expensive, to the point, many workers are struggling to afford it?

again, the term 'free', isnt exactly what it means upon debate!

01-02-2019 2:23pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, the overall question is, why is housing and accommodation so expensive,.............

No, that's not the overall question.
That's just the latest tangent you are going off on as part of your looney left speel

However, supply and demand in the answer.
A few short years ago there was loads of supply and no demand.
Now it's the opposite.
There are plenty of reasonably priced homes outside of Dublin, I live in one myself.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

........
again, the term 'free', isnt exactly what it means upon debate!

Free is exactly what it means.
You just don't agree someone who isn't working, and won't ever work who is on the scratch and paying €30/week out of their dole for their accommodation is living for free.

Ush1 · 01-02-2019 2:41pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

maybe we can implement wealth capturing mechanisms such as sovereign wealth funds and land value taxes etc?

very few individuals pay no taxes in this country, including the unemployed,
theres effectively no such thing as free water, free housing and other free public services.

We have one of the narrowest tax bases in the world I believe.

A tiny percentage of the population pay a huge percentage of the tax.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 2:42pm

Augeo wrote: »

No, that's not the overall question.
That's just the latest tangent you are going off on as part of your looney left speel

However, supply and demand in the answer.
A few short years ago there was loads of supply and no demand.
Now it's the opposite.
There are plenty of reasonably priced homes outside of Dublin, I live in one myself.

Free is exactly what it means.
You just don't agree someone who isn't working, and won't ever work who is on the scratch and paying €30/week out of their dole for their accommodation is living for free.

....and we re back to this neoclassical rubbish again! our housing demands were well spotted at the height of the crash, our response, lets stop building!

..and you wont accept, very few, if any individual receives free services from the state, as most, if not all pay some form of taxation.

again, why is housing and accommodation so expensive, and what part has, and still does, the financial sector play in this ever rising cost?

Ush1 · 01-02-2019 2:51pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....and we re back to this neoclassical rubbish again! our housing demands were well spotted at the height of the crash, our response, lets stop building!

There was no demand at the height of the crash. There was very little work, banks weren't lending and all the builders f*cked off to Oz and Canada.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

..and you wont accept, very few, if any individual receives free services from the state, as most, if not all pay some form of taxation.

The services aren't free because the people that generate the tax money pay for it. If you're on the scratch and the government gives you money and it gets some back in the form of VAT for your slab of cans and fags, you aren't a net contributor. You're a net loss to the exchequer.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, why is housing and accommodation so expensive, and what part has, and still does, the financial sector play in this ever rising cost?

Because the economy is doing very well and there is a lack of supply currently of the types of houses in certain places that are in demand. The financial sector is following CBOI lending rules to limit what has happened in the past.

facehugger99 · 01-02-2019 3:00pm

We're still running a deficit and these militant union leaders want to ramp up spending on PS wages and pensions - again!

Is time the silent majority in the private sector that are paying for this call a halt to this before our taxes are used by the Government to buy industrial peace.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 3:03pm

Ush1 wrote: »

There was no demand at the height of the crash. There was very little work, banks weren't lending and all the builders f*cked off to Oz and Canada.

The services aren't free because the people that generate the tax money pay for it. If you're on the scratch and the government gives you money and it gets some back in the form of VAT for your slab of cans and fags, you aren't a net contributor. You're a net loss to the exchequer.

Because the economy is doing very well and there is a lack of supply currently of the types of houses in certain places that are in demand. The financial sector is following CBOI lending rules to limit what has happened in the past.

we really need to move on from all this supply and demand nonsense, the real world doesnt work like this. it was well spotted at the height of the crash by some, via data, that we were gonna run out of houses and accommodation, particularly in the dublin region, our response was to stop building. this was well spotted in advance of our current situation.

....and we re back to the free, not so free thing, again, why is housing and accommodation so expensive? im gonna stick my neck out and say, very few, if any, unemployed person ever played a role in the political and economic meetings that have helped cause this situation! yes i know, its a risky thing to say, but....

jay0109 · 01-02-2019 3:06pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we really need to move on from all this supply and demand nonsense, the real world doesnt work like this. it was well spotted at the height of the crash by some, via data, that we were gonna run out of houses and accommodation, particularly in the dublin region, our response was to stop building. this was well spotted in advance of our current situation.

....and we re back to the free, not so free thing, again, why is housing and accommodation so expensive? im gonna stick my neck out and say, very few, if any, unemployed person ever played a role in the political and economic meetings that have helped cause this situation! yes i know, its a risky thing to say, but....

Show me this data?
How was it well known?
Your all about generalisations but lack specifics and examples.

I remember at the time the talk was all about ghost estates, rents falling by huge amounts nationwide as there was a lack of tenants, no credit from the banks to buy the houses that were ready to be lived in, people afraid to take out loans even if they could get them.

Wanderer78 · 01-02-2019 3:09pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Show me this data?
How was it well known?
Your all about generalisations but lack specifics and examples.

I remember at the time the talk was all about ghost estates, rents falling by huge amounts nationwide as there was a lack of tenants, no credit from the banks to buy the houses that were ready to be lived in, people afraid to take out loans even if they could get them.

i dont have the time to dig it out for you, but commentators such as ronan and tom lyons were talking about this at the height of the crash, maybe follow up on their work, both are active on twitter, lyons has a blog.

Ush1 · 01-02-2019 3:10pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we really need to move on from all this supply and demand nonsense, the real world doesnt work like this. it was well spotted at the height of the crash by some, via data, that we were gonna run out of houses and accommodation, particularly in the dublin region, our response was to stop building. this was well spotted in advance of our current situation.

Who's this our? That is supply and demand at work. People aren't going to build houses for nothing for people who can't afford to buy the houses as banks won't lend them the money. Neither will they lend the builder money to buy land and build the things because nobody can afford them. At the height of the crash we have ghost estates littered around the country.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

....and we re back to the free, not so free thing, again, why is housing and accommodation so expensive? im gonna stick my neck out and say, very few, if any, unemployed person ever played a role in the political and economic meetings that have helped cause this situation! yes i know, its a risky thing to say, but....

I just answered this for you. To reiterate, nothing is free.

jay0109 · 01-02-2019 3:11pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i dont have the time to dig it out for you, but commentators such as ronan and tom lyons were talking about this at the height of the crash, maybe follow up on their work, both are active on twitter, lyons has a blog.

Your gas

01-02-2019 3:13pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

............., very few, if any, unemployed person ever played a role in the political and economic meetings that have helped cause this situation! yes i know, its a risky thing to say, but....

What political and economic meetings are you referring to?
Folk on the scratch generally don't even vote, they only got up off their holes to protest about water charges as they were going to have to part with some of their dole payment (free money).

mad muffin · 01-02-2019 5:11pm

Simon Harris’s thinly veiled threat of financial penalties for striking nurses is utterly reprehensible.

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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