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How are the English different from us?

  • 13-04-2015 9:47pm
    #1
    Dunford
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭


    Spaniards often tell me that the Irish are so different from the English.

    How are we different? My experience here is we seem to be a friendlier and mix more with locals and learn the language more...in general.

    What do u think? Are we even any different despite our different origins?


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Comments

  • #2
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Dunford wrote: »
    Spaniards often tell me that the Irish are so different from the English.

    How are we different? My experience here is we seem to be a friendlier and mix more with locals and learn the language more...in general.

    What do u think? Are we even any different despite our different origins?

    A friend was in southern Spain with his family, in a cheap as chips hotel. At the pool bar, the barman called him English, so he politely pointed out that he was Scottish.

    The barman then asked why he was on holiday with a group of drunken English families, which confused my friend because he was the only non Irish person in the hotel.

    As he walked back to his lounger, he realised why the barman was confused. All the kids and half the adults were running around in Man United and Liverpool football shirts.

    There is very very little difference between the two to be honest.


  • #3
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Any who thinks there is no difference between Ireland and England only has to go to a funeral.


  • #4
    IrishProd
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭IrishProd


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    A friend was in southern Spain with his family, in a cheap as chips hotel. At the pool bar, the barman called him English, so he politely pointed out that he was Scottish.

    The barman then asked why he was on holiday with a group of drunken English families, which confused my friend because he was the only non Irish person in the hotel.

    As he walked back to his lounger, he realised why the barman was confused. All the kids and half the adults were running around in Man United and Liverpool football shirts.

    There is very very little difference between the two to be honest.

    Why because some Irish people wear English football jerseys or support non-Irish clubs?

    By your logic there is no difference between Lithuanians & Polish people because some wear each other sports jerseys, or French people watching American Netflix programs means there is little difference between Americans and French people, or there is very little difference between English people and Germans because some shop on amazon.gr instead of amazon.uk.....:rolleyes:

    Its called 'globalisation'

    All neighboring countries have a shared history with another that is normal, it does not mean there is "little difference".


  • #5
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,716 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    This smacks of your typical After Hours thread.

    Genetically, we are quite similar to our neighbours than persons of a nationalistic bent like to think. Britain was 'Celtic' or at least spoke Celtic languages after all. Any social differences might be accounted for from their more rapid early industrialisation and growth of large cities. In general, many Irish people are only a few generations removed from working the land, so there would be better odds of the preservation of rural customs into modern times.


  • #6
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    This smacks of your typical After Hours thread.

    Genetically, we are quite similar to our neighbours than persons of a nationalistic bent like to think. Britain was 'Celtic' or at least spoke Celtic languages after all. Any social differences might be accounted for from their more rapid early industrialisation and growth of large cities. In general, many Irish people are only a few generations removed from working the land, so there would be better odds of the preservation of rural customs into modern times.

    Same is true for France and much of Spain too.


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  • #7
    IrishProd
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭IrishProd


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    This smacks of your typical After Hours thread.

    Genetically, we are quite similar to our neighbours than persons of a nationalistic bent like to think. Britain was 'Celtic' or at least spoke Celtic languages after all. Any social differences might be accounted for from their more rapid early industrialisation and growth of large cities. In general, many Irish people are only a few generations removed from working the land, so there would be better odds of the preservation of rural customs into modern times.

    Closer genetically to people from the northern Iberian peninsula, the Basques for example, thats not saying that some Britons are not however.


  • #8
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,716 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    That would make sense, it was far easier to travel by sea in ancient times than it was by land.


  • #9
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    IrishProd wrote: »
    Closer genetically to people from the northern Iberian peninsula, the Basques for example, thats not saying that some Britons are not however.

    No, Western British and Irish are closer genetically. Eastern Englush are a bit closer to Dutch, Danish, German etc due to Germanic invasions.
    The Basque idea is basically the flat earth of genetics, way out of date with the field seriously advancing in the last five years.


  • #10
    IrishProd
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭IrishProd


    Ipso wrote: »
    No, Western British and Irish are closer genetically. Eastern Englush are a bit closer to Dutch, Danish, German etc due to Germanic invasions.
    The Basque idea is basically the flat earth of genetics, way out of date with the field seriously advancing in the last five years.

    A lot of valid research contradicts your assertion.

    Example:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/a-tale-of-y-chromosomes-and-tea-leaves/

    FYI: I said the Iberian Peninsula, I was only using the Basques as a non-specific example.


  • #11
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Head counts mean nothing. Old forms of R1b have revently been found in remains from the Ukranian steppe, indicating an East West movement.
    High numbers of R1b just mean fathers had lots of sons and their sons more sons and so on.
    Autosomnal DNA shows how close populations are, that's where British and Irish cluster together.

    This study is from when the age and origin if R1b started to be revised.
    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/08/back-to-drawing-board-for-r-m269-busby.html?m=1


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  • #12
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Ipso wrote: »
    No, Western British and Irish are closer genetically. Eastern Englush are a bit closer to Dutch, Danish, German etc due to Germanic invasions.
    The Basque idea is basically the flat earth of genetics, way out of date with the field seriously advancing in the last five years.

    Could it be a product of recent history. I wonder what the picture was like 1000 years ago.


  • #13
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,716 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    robp wrote: »
    Could it be a product of recent history. I wonder what the picture was like 1000 years ago.

    There's been a hell of a lot of interaction between us and what is now Britain, hardly surprising given the proximity. Who was it that kidnapped St Patrick after all?


  • #14
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    robp wrote: »
    Could it be a product of recent history. I wonder what the picture was like 1000 years ago.

    A 1000 years ago? Typical conversation when my late father spoke about the ancestral mention in the Doomsday Book (almost 1,000 years ago)– “Well, we don’t know exactly which of the two in the Book was our direct ancestor, but one, a freeman held a hide and the other, a sokeman had several virgates and the Inquisito Eliensis details them along with villeins and a number of slaves ……
    Mother – Old soaks more like it, don’t mind your Inquisition, they were running around naked and painted blue with woad when my family were Kings wearing silk in Dal Cais!


  • #15
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    robp wrote: »
    Could it be a product of recent history. I wonder what the picture was like 1000 years ago.

    I'd say it's further back, even interaction between the North and Scotland goes back thousands of years.
    Ultimately most European populations derive from the same few sources, the differences being they got different amounts at different times.
    The most isolated areas (far West) would by and large escape much of the movements from the continent that England had.
    Its also a case of how good of a proxy a modern Irish/Brit is for a historical one. Which I suppose really is the big question.


  • #16
    Dunford
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Dunford


    personality wise though do we differ? The Spanish seem to think we're a lot nicer, open and friendlier.

    are we that different?


  • #17
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    No we're no different. We're just as pissed up and just as ugly


  • #18
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Dunford wrote: »
    personality wise though do we differ? The Spanish seem to think we're a lot nicer, open and friendlier.

    are we that different?

    I think if you looked at tourist surveys they'd say hands down that Ireland is much more open and friendly than england.

    But thats through circumstances and environment. We all come from the same northern european DNA soup.


  • #19
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    I think if you looked at tourist surveys they'd say hands down that Ireland is much more open and friendly than england.

    But thats through circumstances and environment. We all come from the same northern european DNA soup.
    The English have sharper fangs and more pointed ears than the Irish. FACT.


  • #20
    DaBlackMask
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭DaBlackMask


    We're better Fact!!!


  • #21
    madmaggie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭madmaggie


    Queues. I have lived in Ireland for a long time now, but am still perplexed as to why people charge headlong for a door, instead of forming a nice orderly queue. I was indoctrinated to queueing at a very young age.:D


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  • #22
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    The Irish are obsessed with what others think of them particularly Z list celebrities from soap land when they come here flogging their book or gob****es of US politicians chasing an Irish vote


  • #23
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    IrishProd wrote: »
    A lot of valid research contradicts your assertion.

    Example:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/a-tale-of-y-chromosomes-and-tea-leaves/

    FYI: I said the Iberian Peninsula, I was only using the Basques as a non-specific example.

    Five year old blog post, times have changed. For example we now have ancient DNA which we didn't have 5 years ago. Also R1b-L21 was only discovered in what 2008 and 2009? Wherease R1b-DF27 (dominant branch of R1b in Iberia) was only discovered circa 2012.


  • #24
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    robp wrote: »
    Could it be a product of recent history. I wonder what the picture was like 1000 years ago.

    Well we now have ancient DNA from Cambridgeshire including two Iron age men, who interesting enough cluster more with modern Irish/modern West Scots, than with modern English.

    It's fairly evident that the English are an admixed population, think of Brazilians or mexicans except in their case they've only been undergoing admixture for 500 years as oppose to 1500 years for the English.


  • #25
    magicmushroom
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭magicmushroom


    I'm English and I live in Ireland - there is little difference to be honest.
    As someone has already mentioned, funerals differ - in England it can take weeks to get one whereas here it's very quick.
    The whole process of burying/cremating and then having a get together is basically the same though.

    One thing I find over here is that people are a lot nosier - I don't mean that in the harsh or mean way it sounds - but it is true.
    At home, there was a lot less of 'John Smith down the road done this' type of thing. It's not necessarily a bad thing as it's good sometimes to know what your neighbours are up to, helps to keep an eye on each other.
    But people are more gossipy over here, more interested in what people are doing - I hear lot more gossip here and see a lot more judgement on people like single mothers, divorcees etc.

    Irish people in general are pretty nice though, about the same as in England. I prefer to live here than England - not sure why really, just like it.


  • #26
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,716 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    The Irish are obsessed with what others think of them particularly Z list celebrities from soap land when they come here flogging their book or gob****es of US politicians chasing an Irish vote

    Can't think of a time when any 'celeb' interviewed on the BBC from outside of the uk was asked if they (a) had any English relatives or (b) what they thought of the English or (c) if they had drank any English beer.:p


  • #27
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    magicmushroom wrote: »
    As someone has already mentioned, funerals differ - in England it can take weeks to get one whereas here it's very quick.

    Isnt that because Catholics dont like to leave a body unattended between death and burial so the funerals tend to be pretty quick just for logistical reasons, whereas the protestants dont really care so the body can left on ice for awhile to allow for arrangements.

    I think thats the reason but I could be wrong.


  • #28
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    magicmushroom wrote: »
    I'm English and I live in Ireland - there is little difference to be honest.

    I live in Germany and people here are mostly the same as home. Personalities don't vary across national borders but how people imagine their identity and customs does. And Irish perceive their identity hugely differently to English or Germans.


  • #29
    magicmushroom
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭magicmushroom


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Isnt that because Catholics dont like to leave a body unattended between death and burial so the funerals tend to be pretty quick just for logistical reasons, whereas the protestants dont really care so the body can left on ice for awhile to allow for arrangements.

    I think thats the reason but I could be wrong.

    I'm not really sure of the reasons to be honest.

    I like the way that here, the family stay with the body until burial, that is really nice and I would have liked to have that option for relatives of mine that have passed away at home.
    On the other hand, when we cremated my dear Granddad last year who I was extremely close with and heartbroken by his death, I really needed that 2 weeks to come to terms with him being gone - having his funeral only a couple of days after this death would have been far too soon for me, I wouldn't have been ready to say goodbye. If that makes sense.


  • #30
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    robp wrote: »
    I live in Germany and people here are mostly the same as home. Personalities don't vary across national borders but how people imagine their identity and customs does. And Irish perceive their identity hugely differently to English or Germans.

    Same went for Dutch and Swedes in my experience, in general there's very little in difference across most Europeans. As for the Anglosphere I do get the impression that if anything Ireland is moving more in the direction of the US than Britain. This is evident in how "Dortspeak" shares [ɻ] when it comes to realisation of r with american-english. (In areas that were more recently Irish speaking you still hear Irish [ɾ])

    Than again people have been complaining about americanisation of Hiberno-english since at least when Dallas was on the tv!


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  • #31
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,716 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    dubhthach wrote: »
    if anything Ireland is moving more in the direction of the US than Britain.

    We were always closer to Boston than Berlin.


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