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19-02-2021, 14:01   #2236
MJohnston
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Originally Posted by whisky_galore View Post
Excellent whataboutery.
It's not whataboutery because greenways, if formed into an extensive network, will actually reduce the reliance on the car as a means of getting around the country. So while I vaguely sympathise with the idea that more tarmac can seem a bit invasive, I don't think it's exaggerating to say that the direct alternative is more cars on the road, which is far more destructive to wildlife and the wilderness.

Last edited by MJohnston; 19-02-2021 at 15:14. Reason: typo!
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28-02-2021, 19:42   #2237
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The forum could do with renaming from Infrastructure to Roads + Greenways.
Greenways are infrastructures.
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01-03-2021, 09:26   #2238
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Lads could you start/resurrect another thread for actually discussing the line itself? No issue with discussions of alternate routings of the greenway but its getting away from that a bit...
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01-03-2021, 10:42   #2239
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Mod: I have moved the Wexford Waterford line discussion to a new thread.

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Last edited by Sam Russell; 02-03-2021 at 09:41.
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01-03-2021, 10:55   #2240
millb
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Many routes are linear, the benefit of a 30 to 70 km circular route is obvious and here is a Central Kildare Circular Route that includes the Grand Canal / Barrow Blueway / River Liffey.

The important starting on-route villages / towns include Naas, Sallins, Robertstown, Milltown and Newbridge / Athgarvan.

This circular route could be well progressed and lobbied-for as the Central Kildare Circular Greenway / Cycleway Route.


https://imgur.com/a/l35u92W [IMG]
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01-03-2021, 13:51   #2241
nilhg
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Originally Posted by millb View Post
Many routes are linear, the benefit of a 30 to 70 km circular route is obvious and here is a Central Kildare Circular Route that includes the Grand Canal / Barrow Blueway / River Liffey.

The important starting on-route villages / towns include Naas, Sallins, Robertstown, Milltown and Newbridge / Athgarvan.

This circular route could be well progressed and lobbied-for as the Central Kildare Circular Greenway / Cycleway Route.


https://imgur.com/a/l35u92W [IMG]
Interesting concept but I'm not sure how the proposed sections through Pollardstown Fen, along the railway or down along the Liffey bank would work?

The feeder canal from the Fen through Milltown and on to Lowtown is very well used and was busy when I went across that way yesterday.

I think it would be easier to link to the Curragh and onwards than use the railway and riverbank?

Would be intersted to see if any technical work has been done on this plan.
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01-03-2021, 15:38   #2242
riddlinrussell
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Interesting concept but I'm not sure how the proposed sections through Pollardstown Fen, along the railway or down along the Liffey bank would work?

The feeder canal from the Fen through Milltown and on to Lowtown is very well used and was busy when I went across that way yesterday.

I think it would be easier to link to the Curragh and onwards than use the railway and riverbank?

Would be intersted to see if any technical work has been done on this plan.
My initial drawings just followed a stream I could see heading towards Newbridge (With regards to the Fen) I would probably change that to a Quietway link along the road between the Fen and Newbridge.

Regarding the Liffey section, not sure what the terrain is like between Athgarvan and Newbridge, I mainly put that in as a way to link Corbally to Newbridge, and I don't know if Corbally branch should be turned into a full greenway (At least, not as a priority). A more direct Naas to Newbridge route should be the first order of business.

I don't see a barrier to along the railway routes apart from IE being precious with their land for expansion. It is the busiest main line though, so I can see it being less pleasant than, say, a cycleway alongside the Limerick to Waterford Line. Those sections would be purely to better connect commuters with local stations though so not really a touristic concept.
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01-03-2021, 15:59   #2243
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I assume the longer the overall route is ,the more value it is from a pure tourist point of view ,
You'd travel quite a distance to do a wexford to cork greenway cycle for instance ( or even better to west cork or kerry ) , with daytrippers and more locals more likely to use the popular sections ,
I assume it'll take quite a lot of imagination to join up a lot of these sections ...
Are the quietways that someone above mentioned above actually a thing ? Or just a maybe ?
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01-03-2021, 16:04   #2244
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"Quietways" exist in the UK in Cities, they are a good idea, basically stringing together a series of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods into a through route for pedestrians and Cyclists. The Active School Travel routes in Dunlaoghaire-Rathdown would be an example of this being attempted in Ireland, looking at the existing mix of parks, residential streets, entries/alleys between roads and working out what changes are needed to make a cohesive route connecting them (Not least advertising/signposting the full route so people know they can actually get where they need to go.)

Outside of towns and cities this concept is being developed by Cyclist.ie as 'Rothar Roads', not sure if its a finalised concept but its a good name and hopefully helps something effective to coalesce

Last edited by riddlinrussell; 01-03-2021 at 16:10.
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01-03-2021, 22:10   #2245
nilhg
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My initial drawings just followed a stream I could see heading towards Newbridge (With regards to the Fen) I would probably change that to a Quietway link along the road between the Fen and Newbridge.

Regarding the Liffey section, not sure what the terrain is like between Athgarvan and Newbridge, I mainly put that in as a way to link Corbally to Newbridge, and I don't know if Corbally branch should be turned into a full greenway (At least, not as a priority). A more direct Naas to Newbridge route should be the first order of business.

I don't see a barrier to along the railway routes apart from IE being precious with their land for expansion. It is the busiest main line though, so I can see it being less pleasant than, say, a cycleway alongside the Limerick to Waterford Line. Those sections would be purely to better connect commuters with local stations though so not really a touristic concept.
I'd very much doubt the practicalities (or even the wisdom) of running something like a greenway down through the middle of the Fen, the stream you refer to is I think a drainage channel to feed the canal and has no towpath along it, there is a towpath on the Curragh side of the canal though. There's a small picnic sres with a couple of benches at the end of that and it would probably be possible to join up with the carpark for the current walkway out into the Fen and on out onto the road and towards Newbridge.

I'm pretty sure all of the land along the Liffey between the Gables at Kilbelin on the edge of Newbridge and Athgarvan is in private ownership, and some of it has considerable development potential, especially if the planned bridge was built to facilitate a road connecting Kelbelin and the roundabout at Great Connell, the planning process might allow the council to try and have some sort of cycling facilities provided but alot of things would have to fall into place to get a full link.

A Newbridge to Naas off road cycling link isn't going to be easy to provide, the canal from Corbally would have helped but it's the wrong side of the Motorways from Newbridge.
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01-03-2021, 22:46   #2246
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I'd very much doubt the practicalities (or even the wisdom) of running something like a greenway down through the middle of the Fen, the stream you refer to is I think a drainage channel to feed the canal and has no towpath along it, there is a towpath on the Curragh side of the canal though. There's a small picnic sres with a couple of benches at the end of that and it would probably be possible to join up with the carpark for the current walkway out into the Fen and on out onto the road and towards Newbridge.

I'm pretty sure all of the land along the Liffey between the Gables at Kilbelin on the edge of Newbridge and Athgarvan is in private ownership, and some of it has considerable development potential, especially if the planned bridge was built to facilitate a road connecting Kelbelin and the roundabout at Great Connell, the planning process might allow the council to try and have some sort of cycling facilities provided but alot of things would have to fall into place to get a full link.

A Newbridge to Naas off road cycling link isn't going to be easy to provide, the canal from Corbally would have helped but it's the wrong side of the Motorways from Newbridge.
Updated my map with a more 'viable' option for Athgarvan/Newbridge and Newbridge to Pollardstown.

I think an 'on road' option should be possible from Newbridge to Naas (and Caragh/Sallins). The Naas/Newbridge dual carriageway wouldn't be the nicest option (there are a few potential side roads) but maybe its worth looking at options for reducing the width of the Naas Newbridge road to get land take for a cycleway?
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02-03-2021, 07:00   #2247
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Originally Posted by riddlinrussell View Post
Updated my map with a more 'viable' option for Athgarvan/Newbridge and Newbridge to Pollardstown.

I think an 'on road' option should be possible from Newbridge to Naas (and Caragh/Sallins). The Naas/Newbridge dual carriageway wouldn't be the nicest option (there are a few potential side roads) but maybe its worth looking at options for reducing the width of the Naas Newbridge road to get land take for a cycleway?
I think Newbridge-Naas is one of those situations where commuting has to be considered as important as leisure especially when you consider there's a large retail/commercial park right between the two, I think there's an obvious need for dedicated cycling facilities on that road, though it's a great pity they weren't put in at the Naas end as part of the M7 works.

A friend of mine commutes Kildare Town to Naas most days by bike on the old N7 and doesn't pass much remark on traffic issues, I must ask him again how he finds it with the M7 upgrade substancially complete.
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02-03-2021, 08:47   #2248
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There is a road parallel to the R445 being developed with cycle lanes allow it isn't anything like a greenway. It could be continued towards Naas through industrial estates, which would be fine and indeed good for commuting but not attractive for leisure cycling. Lidl had to provide another section of the road when building their new distribution centre;



This is to be continued west and further facilities are to be provided as part of housing developments. The Kilbelin SHD is to create a path along the western side of the Liffey. Unfortunately the SHD website is gone so we have to rely on the Kildare Co Co website, hope this link works (search File Number:18302141 if not);

http://idocsweb.kildarecoco.ie/iDocs...99&format=jpeg
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04-03-2021, 11:45   #2249
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Originally Posted by riddlinrussell View Post
"Quietways" exist in the UK in Cities, they are a good idea, basically stringing together a series of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods into a through route for pedestrians and Cyclists. The Active School Travel routes in Dunlaoghaire-Rathdown would be an example of this being attempted in Ireland, looking at the existing mix of parks, residential streets, entries/alleys between roads and working out what changes are needed to make a cohesive route connecting them (Not least advertising/signposting the full route so people know they can actually get where they need to go.)

Outside of towns and cities this concept is being developed by Cyclist.ie as 'Rothar Roads', not sure if its a finalised concept but its a good name and hopefully helps something effective to coalesce
I’d love quietways in Ireland but with the only one attempted so far being the Rathgar one...eep.
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05-03-2021, 12:18   #2250
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Greenway Map is getting some updates, I'm working my way through the Greater Dublin Area Cycle Network Plan specifically the rural routes at the minute. Seems like a good time to make some noise about this plan with all the new funding floating around. Would be great to get updated cycling guidelines soon so they cant be waved off with some substandard guff though.
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