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Landlords who don't allow working from home?

2

Comments

  • #32
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Cairo Microscopic Chalkboard wrote: »
    I would safely say there isn’t a single person working from home even having the thought enter their head that they would say anything to their insurer as there is simply no need, working from home for a company is absolutely no different to just living in the house.

    When I'm directly asked as part of the renewal of my Landlord's insurance if there is working from home going on, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to answer honestly and not risk having my insurance voided. If the Insurer says no working from home or working from home only under X condition, that's getting passed on to the tenants.


  • #33
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,576 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    When I'm directly asked as part of the renewal of my Landlord's insurance if there is working from home going on, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm going to answer honestly and not risk having my insurance voided. If the Insurer says no working from home or working from home only under X condition, that's getting passed on to the tenants.

    What if say you are unemployed.

    Should you not be in your house during office hours....?


  • #34
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    listermint wrote: »
    What if say you are unemployed.

    Should you not be in your house during office hours....?

    You'd have to ask the insurer, but that wasn't one of the questions asked.


  • #35
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    look up most standard tenancy agreements and you'll find something like
    5. The Tenant shall not carry out in the property any profession or business whatsoever whether for gain or otherwise. Should the Tenant contravene this regulation, this Agreement shall terminate immediately, but without prejudice to any antecedent rights of the Landlord.

    which i suspect covers working form home. im sure my tenancy agreement has it in. i would think it means running your business from home not working from home but it doesnt say that

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • #36
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    ednwireland wrote: »
    look up most standard tenancy agreements and you'll find something like



    which i suspect covers working form home. im sure my tenancy agreement has it in. i would think it means running your business from home not working from home but it doesnt say that
    If things like that are brought up in the Department of Business and Enterprise consultation, I can forsee such clauses in tenant agreements being made illegal if it prevents people working from home while their office is closed.


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  • #37
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    lucernarian wrote: »
    If things like that are brought up in the Department of Business and Enterprise consultation, I can forsee such clauses in tenant agreements being made illegal if it prevents people working from home while their office is closed.

    they need to be ! and thats as a landlord

    making it illegal isnt going to help sorting out the undrelying reasons for why a clause like that might be there is whats needed (not that thats going to happen gov. doesnt do underlying causes)

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • #38
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    ednwireland wrote: »
    they need to be ! and thats as a landlord

    making it illegal isnt going to help sorting out the undrelying reasons for why a clause like that might be there is whats needed (not that thats going to happen gov. doesnt do underlying causes)

    I think it's the 20th century thinking of insurers and many people (even some on this thread) who don't get the realities of modern technology and careers. Like, I look at insurance forms and I don't have a clue what my exact current job role could be called. Maybe years ago everyone could describe their job or position in one word but i don't think so now.

    and some of it comes from risk averse top-down thinking. E.g. the management company randomly decides something, which spooks the landlord, which then reaches the tenant. A similar example might be pets. On continental Europe most places would allow for small animals to be kept, in Ireland at least it seems to be the opposite.


  • #39
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    More that, although the government might not do underlying clauses, they are completely beholden to the insurance industry. If a LL can't get insurance for someone to work from home there's not a lot they can do about it. That said incidental office work was fine.


  • #40
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,153 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Cairo Microscopic Chalkboard wrote: »
    Working from home is not running a business from home end of story.

    Even running many businesses from home does not require chance of use, for instance a farm house is the HQ of a farming business and they will have normal residential.



    I would safely say there isn’t a single person working from home even having the thought enter their head that they would say anything to their insurer as there is simply no need, working from home for a company is absolutely no different to just living in the house.

    Just because something doesn't enter anyone's head, does not mean it is a live issue. Most house insurance policies only ensure goods for personal use.
    The trouble with working from home is that work items are not covered by the household insurance. There may be no cover if the laptop is stolen from the house for example.


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    More that, although the government might not do underlying clauses, they are completely beholden to the insurance industry. If a LL can't get insurance for someone to work from home there's not a lot they can do about it. That said incidental office work was fine.

    It’s nonsense, no difference between someone sitting at home all day on Facebook on their laptop or working on their laptop. People are going out looking for things to try stir the s*it with.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Just because something doesn't enter anyone's head, does not mean it is a live issue. Most house insurance policies only ensure goods for personal use.
    The trouble with working from home is that work items are not covered by the household insurance. There may be no cover if the laptop is stolen from the house for example.

    Who is to say it’s a work laptop? I use my work laptop as my personal laptop also.


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  • #42
    gauchesnell
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭gauchesnell


    hi

    Ive recently been looking for a new place to live and yes I have been turned down because I am working from home at present. I work in admin with a work laptop so nothing disruptive.

    defo an issue


  • #43
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,153 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Cairo Microscopic Chalkboard wrote: »
    It’s nonsense, no difference between someone sitting at home all day on Facebook on their laptop or working on their laptop. People are going out looking for things to try stir the s*it with.



    Who is to say it’s a work laptop? I use my work laptop as my personal laptop also.

    Have you ever had insurance investigate a claim? Have you ever heard of material non-disclosure. Insurance requires the utmost good faith. This is the adult world not the nursery.


  • #44
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    From Allianz:
    Is Working From Home Covered by Home Insurance?
    “Home Insurance generally covers individuals working from home, whether lone workers or employees of a business offering agile working. But if customers start visiting a property, if there are activities like manufacturing and if there's any stock at the property, which could lead to a higher risk of theft, that's where the risk increases. If those conditions exist, Allianz assess the situation on a case by case basis. It's not about the size of the company. I could be running a multimillion euro company by myself from my bedroom. It's more about the increase in risk.”

    From 123.ie
    Am I covered to work from home?
    For Home Insurance Customers
    We will cover you to work from home dealing with paperwork, phone calls and a computer only.

    This does not include any commercial use, (e.g. visitors to the premises in relation to your work, holding stock in connection with your work etc.) even if you have a separate business or public liability policy.

    From AIG
    Am I covered by my home insurance if I work from home?
    Our Home Cover (Essential or Plus) contents policy section automatically provides cover for Home office equipment up to €3,000 ( under Home Cover Premium limit increased to €6,000) used for occasional clerical work at home and where no business clients visit the home. Please call us if you require your home cover to be extended for any business use other than as described above.


  • #45
    gauchesnell
    Registered Users Posts: 938 ✭✭✭gauchesnell


    yeah Id have to agree. I have found somewhere and much much cheaper than what I was paying but I need to protect the work items I have in my home so they are constantly locked up.

    Definitely are are some LLs who dont want people who work from home - even though we have no choice at present.


  • #46
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Uncle Pierre wrote: »
    There's been a provision in place for a few years now (so it's not Covid-19 related), where an employer can pay an employee an allowance of up to €3.20 per day, tax free, for working from home.

    In the Public Sector, you claim this in your tax return at the end of the year, the employer won't pay it for you.


  • #47
    Humour Me
    Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭Humour Me


    The irony here is that the majority of insurance company employees have all been working from home for months. If their staff advised that they couldn’t WFH because of their landlords insurance, they wouldn’t be long changing the insurance conditions.

    My own landlord is well aware that a number of us are working from home. He only asked if the broadband was holding up.


  • #48
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    What does it even mean?


  • #49
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    I think the suggestion is 'working from home' and 'running a business from home' are the same thing.


  • #50
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Your employer should do a health and safety assessment of your at home workplace.


  • #51
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Your employer should do a health and safety assessment of your at home workplace.

    Dear God.


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  • #52
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Graham wrote: »
    I think the suggestion is 'working from home' and 'running a business from home' are the same thing.

    I think that the three policy extracts shown demonstrate clearly that so long as the home is a place from which the employee alone carries out suitable tasks which do not involve the holding of stock, meeting of customers etc, that they are covered under the home policy.
    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Your employer should do a health and safety assessment of your at home workplace.

    This is true and is one of the reasons why many employers will have distributed working from home questionnaires. They continue to have a responsibility to ensure that you have necessary equipment or else to preclude you from working. If, for example, you incur an injury to your neck by spending 7 hours a day on a kitchen chair staring at a laptop on a flat table then they will be exposed. They should provide you with info as to how to sit properly, raise the laptop up to your eye level with a stand or a pile of books etc.

    Any sensible employer will make some effort to head off claims from employees.


  • #53
    Third_Echelon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,889 ✭✭✭Third_Echelon


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Just because something doesn't enter anyone's head, does not mean it is a live issue. Most house insurance policies only ensure goods for personal use.
    The trouble with working from home is that work items are not covered by the household insurance. There may be no cover if the laptop is stolen from the house for example.

    Your work laptop should be owned by your company. You can't insure someone else's property. Any theft etc. is covered by work's insurance, not my personal renters/content insurance.

    It's a non-issue.


  • #54
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,163 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    No need for clients, it's a workplace.


  • #55
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,163 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Dear God.


    Strictly speaking your CEO could be criminally charged should you be injured I suspect. #IANAL


  • #56
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Marcusm wrote: »
    I think that the three policy extracts shown demonstrate clearly that so long as the home is a place from which the employee alone carries out suitable tasks which do not involve the holding of stock, meeting of customers etc, that they are covered under the home policy.

    That's certainly my reading of it, I can't pretend I've checked every insurer though.


  • #57
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,659 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Graham wrote: »
    I think the suggestion is 'working from home' and 'running a business from home' are the same thing.

    Ahh, no.

    Working and running a business are the same thing, unless you are a public servant.


  • #58
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Ahh, no.

    Working and running a business are the same thing, unless you are a public servant.

    Could be. Can't say I'd agree with either translations :D


  • #59
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Mr.S wrote: »
    This is by far the stupidest reply I've seen on A&P. Judging by who liked your post, really seals the deal.
    Good to see that called out tbh!


  • #60
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Mr.S wrote: »
    Must...not...take...bait.

    How you believe that is beyond me.

    From the perspective of what entails "working from home" and the impacts such work might have, it's not entirely inaccurate, though. It's really the nature of your work itself rather than whether you're an employee or self-employed that would come into play. Someone doing, say, hairstyling or in-person counseling or building furniture or packing and shipping inventory from their rented home poses a risk of liability issues, planning violations, and general disruption whether they are ultimately working for themselves or someone else. Someone doing remote IT work or coding or writing or telephone customer service or any other work that just involves working on a computer and/or talking on the phone wouldn't generally be a liability risk, wouldn't be causing disruptions due to a bunch of foot or vehicle traffic in the neighbourhood, and wouldn't usually be in violation of planning codes, whether they are working for themselves or someone else.


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  • #61
    An Ri rua
    Registered Users Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    daithi7 wrote: »
    I can fully understand it in 'room to let' letting, as the house owner is then providing both an office & a residential home.

    On a general letting , I think it's debatable also tbh, I mean there's no doubt that providing a dwelling that provides a home office/ working solution that is utilised is going to get far more wear & tear than just providing a residential dwelling.... it could be legitimate grounds for a landlord (who was agreeing to home working) to be able to charge more legimately surely?!

    I mean many workers get an allowance from their employers if they work from home, I think it's perfectly reasonable that a landlord charges more to facilitate this also.

    That's just bonkers. So do you declare whether you're a night worker or day worker then? Or if you're doing a few all nighters studying for Open University online and working during the day, then full disclosure with your big brother landlord so he can screw you for another few quid?
    On what level do you think that's rational?


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