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Covid 19 crisis - aid to the civil power

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2456

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    #32
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    daheff wrote: »
    Reserves being mobilized for following Monday

    They seem to be talking about up to a company at any barracks being available for use. That doesn't strike me as stressing the DF to the extent that the RDF need be mobilised, and I've not seen that anywhere else.


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    #33
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Well at least it makes a change and they'll be doing something useful for the country for a change, rather than idling around the barracks and pulling the wire off themselves for want of something to be doing.


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    #34
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Any CBRN experts/ units/ training in the Defence Forces?


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Well at least it makes a change and they'll be doing something useful for the country for a change, rather than idling around the barracks and pulling the wire off themselves for want of something to be doing.

    Oh yeah?
    Big job yourself yeah, doing something so much more important.......


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    #36
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Well at least it makes a change and they'll be doing something useful for the country for a change, rather than idling around the barracks and pulling the wire off themselves for want of something to be doing.

    [MOD]Be constructive, or don't post here again[/MOD]


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    #37
    Negative_G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Any CBRN experts/ units/ training in the Defence Forces?

    DF Corps of Engineers are the SMEs in CBRN.


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    #38
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Any CBRN experts/ units/ training in the Defence Forces?

    Every soldier is qualified to wear and operate CBRN gear.

    Every Unit has CBRN experts, including for decontamination.


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    #39
    6541
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭6541


    Currently in Spain, send help now. Everything locked down.


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    #40
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭sparky42


    6541 wrote: »
    Currently in Spain, send help now. Everything locked down.
    Coveney has been saying Aer Lingus and Ryanair will be available to fly people home.


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    #41
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Just saw the clip on the defence forces Facebook of the Le Samuel Beckett docking in Dublin , as an aid to the hse .. ( according to the caption ) , there's 4 p60s and the eithne that could be sent anywhere around the coast as mini health centers ... Can accommodation units in containers be put on the stern of the p60s , (I'm guessing the hanger of eithne could be pushed into that roll ... )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #42
    kooga
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭kooga


    A lot of activity all the day in and out of Collins barracks


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    #43
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Just saw the clip on the defence forces Facebook of the Le Samuel Beckett docking in Dublin , as an aid to the hse .. ( according to the caption ) , there's 4 p60s and the eithne that could be sent anywhere around the coast as mini health centers ... Can accommodation units in containers be put on the stern of the p60s , (I'm guessing the hanger of eithne could be pushed into that roll ... )


    So far from the Mellet interview they are only thinking about using them for extra testing sites if the HSE needed them.


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    #44
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭sparky42


    kooga wrote: »
    A lot of activity all the day in and out of Collins barracks
    Not really surprising tbh with everything going on.


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    #45
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »
    Every soldier is qualified to wear and operate CBRN gear.

    Every Unit has CBRN experts, including for decontamination.

    Do you know what the PPE consists of? Suits in particular

    What exact is a 'unit' here, brigade with an engineer unit being the experts as mentioned above?


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    #46
    ectoraige
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    One role that would be useful is decontamination units at hospitals to clean ambulances. At the moment ambulance crews are having to go through sets of PPE after each covid-19 call, and they are going to run out soon. If there were dedicated decon units that could stay suited for longer cleaning multiple ambulances it would preserve PPE for crews. It would also reduce turnaround times, it's taking at least 45 minutes each time.


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    #47
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    How realistic is the reactivation of retirees?


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    They could not bring in any law that unconditionally prevents free movement.
    They would be faced with huge lawsuits and claims for unlawful or unconstitutional detention.

    I'd like to see them stop me from getting around by the boreens and fields.

    While I completely agree that it's not a willy nilly issue, they would be allowed to bring that law in without the Constitution being effected


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    #49
    Negative_G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Do you know what the PPE consists of? Suits in particular

    What exact is a 'unit' here, brigade with an engineer unit being the experts as mentioned above?

    All personnel in the DF receive CBRN training.

    Unfortunately, despite the post above. Personnel may go several years between initial and recurrent training.. This isn't to say that personnel can receive 'refresher' training at short notice.

    The Corps of Engineers maintain and compose most of the assets relating to decontamination etc.

    The average soldier *should* have access to CBRN kit.


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »
    The Government can declare a State of Emergency and activate Martial Law in the event of an emergency.

    No, they can't. Martial law does not exist within the republic of Ireland. The military cannot take over law enforcement in this country. They can only every act alone against external hostile threats.


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    #51
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    No, they can't. Martial law does not exist within the republic of Ireland. The military cannot take over law enforcement in this country. They can only every act alone against external hostile threats.


    A most basic search shows that you are wrong. All the State has to do is declare a State of Emergency.
    :rolleyes:


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    #52
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,867 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Negative_G wrote: »
    All personnel in the DF receive CBRN training.

    Unfortunately, despite the post above. Personnel may go several years between initial and recurrent training.. This isn't to say that personnel can receive 'refresher' training at short notice.

    The Corps of Engineers maintain and compose most of the assets relating to decontamination etc.

    The average soldier *should* have access to CBRN kit.


    Funny enough there was a Facebook post from the navy about one of the OPV's doing CBRN training what a month ago or so?


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sparky42 wrote: »
    A most basic search shows that you are wrong. All the State has to do is declare a State of Emergency.
    :rolleyes:

    Look beyond Wikipedia


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    #54
    Negative_G
    Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Funny enough there was a Facebook post from the navy about one of the OPV's doing CBRN training what a month ago or so?

    No doubt it is carried out but it is ad-hoc.

    In any case, a basic capability is better than no capability


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    #55
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,625 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    ectoraige wrote: »
    One role that would be useful is decontamination units at hospitals to clean ambulances. At the moment ambulance crews are having to go through sets of PPE after each covid-19 call, and they are going to run out soon. If there were dedicated decon units that could stay suited for longer cleaning multiple ambulances it would preserve PPE for crews. It would also reduce turnaround times, it's taking at least 45 minutes each time.
    Yeah makes sense

    Regarding the suits they'd have to change after each call out anyway, those suits are meant to be single use and can't be decontaminated like the heavier chem ones. We (red cross) had to introduce a new PPE suit more similar to a surgeon's overalls because of this


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    #56
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Whitney Low Gunpoint wrote: »
    How realistic is the reactivation of retirees?

    I don't think it would be possible. A retired person is just that, retired, and no longer under any obligation to do anything. It would be purely on a voluntary basis. And most retirees will be old and thus would be an at risk group, so they couldn't be used anyway.


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    #57
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    No, they can't. Martial law does not exist within the republic of Ireland. The military cannot take over law enforcement in this country. They can only every act alone against external hostile threats.

    A most basic search shows that you are wrong. All the State has to do is declare a State of Emergency.
    :rolleyes:

    You must have read this from Wikapedia?
    The current Irish Constitution allows for martial law if the government declares a state of emergency, however capital punishment is prohibited in all circumstances, including a state of emergency.

    It is not correct, note it even gives a green light to capital punishment according to Wikapedia which is prohibited by Article 15.2.5° of the Constitution.

    Article 28.3.3° of the Constitution allows for certain so called martial law related matters to be legislated for. However, it is qualified in that it specifically applies in times of "war or armed rebellion", it simply means no laws enacted for the above reasons will be invalidated by any provision of the Constitution (with exception to the death penalty).

    With regards to the Defence Forces and a state of emergency, the only provisions in law are as follows:-

    1. Military command can pass directly to the Government in times of a state of emergency if directed by the President as per S17 of the Defence Act 1954, and,

    2. Officers of the defence forces can carry out arrests when requested to do so by the Gardaí of a rank of superintendent or higher for certain offences under section 15 of the Criminal Law Act 1976, under the same rules which apply to Gardaí.

    Hope that clarifies the position.


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    #58
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Whitney Low Gunpoint wrote: »
    How realistic is the reactivation of retirees?

    My friend was asked to return for Monday. He was retired near two years. Was in for 20 years and drove APC vehicles for the army.


    The news can confirm this, they just need to ask the question and will likely get a reply!


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    #59
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Do you know what the PPE consists of? Suits in particular

    What exact is a 'unit' here, brigade with an engineer unit being the experts as mentioned above?

    TBH our CBRN suits are not required for Covid-19, respirators and canister maybe. They are designed for more robust threats.

    A Brigade is made up of Infantry Battalions, Artillery Regiments, Cavalry Squadrons, support etc. A single "Unit" could consist of anything from 50-300 people.

    We have hundreds of NATO level CBRN instructors but its not really applicable to this.


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    #60
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Whitney Low Gunpoint wrote: »
    How realistic is the reactivation of retirees?

    There is zero talk of this in work so far. Only on social media.

    I dont currently see the need.


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    #61
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    I don't think it would be possible. A retired person is just that, retired, and no longer under any obligation to do anything. It would be purely on a voluntary basis. And most retirees will be old and thus would be an at risk group, so they couldn't be used anyway.

    Not all old. A family member retired with 40 years of logistics experience. He's only 60. Would be interested to hear from the military guys.


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