Garda Abstract

SweetCaliber · 08-07-2020 7:21pm #1

Hi all,

Was in a collision with a cyclist a while back. Nothing came of it but the Gardai attended and took details and such. Never heard anything since.

Told my insurance about it when it happened and they put it as an open claim incase the cyclist claims against me, however my insurance is up for renewal next month and I've been told if the claim is still open I'll loose my NCB and will have an open claim stuck on my insurance.

The girl in the insurance company stated they were waiting for an abstract report from the Gardai but were having no luck getting it. They want the get the details of the cyclist to chat with him. I didn't get his details the day it happened but told the Garda on the scene to please give the cyclist my details as I wanted to check in with him and make sure he was okay.

Is there any way of getting this Garda Abstract?

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-07-2020 7:42pm

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Is there any way of getting this Garda Abstract?

Write to the District Superintendent by post.

Eggs For Dinner · 08-07-2020 8:29pm

It is highly unlikely your insurer will want to chat to the cyclist unless he has already lodged a claim. More likely the want the abstract to assist with establishing liability should a claim come in later. Obtaining abstracts is a long process at the best of times. In the current situation, even longer

talla10 · 08-07-2020 10:13pm

The insurance company should request the abstract as there is a cost of €60 for any abstract provided

cml387 · 09-07-2020 8:32am

But if there is no claim (as yet) why should you lose your NCB?

SweetCaliber · 09-07-2020 2:32pm

cml387 wrote: »

But if there is no claim (as yet) why should you lose your NCB?

Because I informed them of the accident and they said its an open claim for 2 years incase he makes a claim. Will lose my no claims and insurance going to go up by around 2500 euro.

Am I right in saying there shouldn't be an open claim on my account? I informed them but that was just passing over information about what happened. I didnt claim for my car as there was no damage.

Thanks everyone else for the replies.

BaronVon · 09-07-2020 6:04pm

If you know the guard's name, ring him and explain the situation. He probably just has it on his 'to do' list, and can prioritise it.

Sounds like the insurance company are scamming you. While they do set aside a certain amount of money to pay for claims once they have been made, apparently no claim has been made.....

Eggs For Dinner · 10-07-2020 8:23am

BaronVon wrote: »

If you know the guard's name, ring him and explain the situation. He probably just has it on his 'to do' list, and can prioritise it.

Sounds like the insurance company are scamming you. While they do set aside a certain amount of money to pay for claims once they have been made, apparently no claim has been made.....

Insurers are obliged to set aside a reserve if there is a likelihood a claim may arise. Any Car V Bicycle incident falls in to this category

ganmo · 11-07-2020 11:52am

Did you get a no claims bonus cert?
It might be worth giving the ombusman a call

Eggs For Dinner · 11-07-2020 6:17pm

ganmo wrote: »

Did you get a no claims bonus cert?
It might be worth giving the ombusman a call

What would be the basis of the complaint?

The insurers are being prudent by keeping the claim open for a while and setting aside the appropriate reserve in case it materialises.

kravmaga · 11-07-2020 7:03pm

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Hi all,

Was in a collision with a cyclist a while back. Nothing came of it but the Gardai attended and took details and such. Never heard anything since.

Told my insurance about it when it happened and they put it as an open claim incase the cyclist claims against me, however my insurance is up for renewal next month and I've been told if the claim is still open I'll loose my NCB and will have an open claim stuck on my insurance.

The girl in the insurance company stated they were waiting for an abstract report from the Gardai but were having no luck getting it. They want the get the details of the cyclist to chat with him. I didn't get his details the day it happened but told the Garda on the scene to please give the cyclist my details as I wanted to check in with him and make sure he was okay.

Is there any way of getting this Garda Abstract?

Was the cyclist injured?
The Gardai only attend an accident if there is an injury between the parties. Did the cyclist need medical attention? Was an ambulance requested.
Who called the Gardai? Did you get the name and collar number of the Gardai that attended the accident?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/motor_accidents.html

Killinator · 12-07-2020 8:40pm

kravmaga wrote: »

Was the cyclist injured?
The Gardai only attend an accident if there is an injury between the parties. Did the cyclist need medical attention? Was an ambulance requested.
Who called the Gardai? Did you get the name and collar number of the Gardai that attended the accident?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/motor_accidents.html

We don't wear collars

You mean shoulder number.

Gardai often attend material damage accidents if requested even if there is no injury for any number of reasons.

12-07-2020 8:48pm

I was in an accident a while ago. About 2 years ago. When I rang my insurance company they took a note of the crash but just said they wouldn't be taking any action unless the other party tried to claim (I told them the other party was at fault). I asked would it affect me in terms of insurance and they said no. For clarity, the crash was in November, renewal in February.

When february rolled around, the same insurer i was with sent me a very good renewal (much lower than my previous year) and i signed up with them again. So I don't think it should be held against you..?

Garda and Ambulance attended the RTA i was involved in (both cars written off), so I did have Garda involvement, but the insurance company never mentioned anything about it.

12-07-2020 8:50pm

kravmaga wrote: »

But the AGS seems to be a very backward organisation compared to UK Police Forces

Without doubt for many reasons - but not for accurately describing where they display their numbers. :rolleyes:

kravmaga · 12-07-2020 8:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Without doubt for many reasons - but not for accurately describing where they display their numbers. :rolleyes:

Are you a member? No I dont think so.

Its always been known as collar number , another civvie with no clue;)

SweetCaliber · 12-07-2020 9:54pm

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Basically Im just confused, my insurance are treating me like I've put in a claim, they said my no claims is gone and my account will reflect an open claim on renewal.

But I never made a claim, I just simply informed them of the accident. No claim has come in from the cyclist or myself. I understand they might be sceptical and think the cyclist may put in a claim in the future, but that can happen at any stage? I don't see why it should be recorded as a claim on my account and I should be penalized for it by removing my NCB and charging me an extra 2 grand on my renewal.

Was speaking to the guard and he said the insurance company hasnt contacted him at all even though they told me they did. He was equally confused as to why they are treating it as a claim as the cyclist hasnt put in a claim yet.

Eggs For Dinner · 12-07-2020 9:58pm

Your insurer is rightly keeping their file open for a period if time in case a claim comes in. If they subsequently close it with no payments made, they will refund any additional money they have charged you as a result of lost NCB

12-07-2020 10:08pm

kravmaga wrote: »

Are you a member? No I dont think so.

Its always been known as collar number , another civvie with no clue;)

I work alongside the Gardai (a lot). I've never heard it called a collar number, and many times they actively correct people who refer to it as anything other than a shoulder/eplaullete number. 'badge number', for example.

Another member with no clue.

12-07-2020 10:12pm

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Basically Im just confused, my insurance are treating me like I've put in a claim, they said my no claims is gone and my account will reflect an open claim on renewal.

But I never made a claim, I just simply informed them of the accident. No claim has come in from the cyclist or myself. I understand they might be sceptical and think the cyclist may put in a claim in the future, but that can happen at any stage? I don't see why it should be recorded as a claim on my account and I should be penalized for it by removing my NCB and charging me an extra 2 grand on my renewal.

Was speaking to the guard and he said the insurance company hasnt contacted him at all even though they told me they did. He was equally confused as to why they are treating it as a claim as the cyclist hasnt put in a claim yet.

'Open Claim' is lingo they use to describe when a claim has been made, but it has not been settled yet.

Are you sure they aren't misunderstanding the situation? I don't think they are allowed to levy you for not having a claim. Might be worth getting in touch with the ombudsman or even just citizens information or CCPC or someone who can give independent advice (I won't lie - I'm not sure who you'd actually contact!).

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Your insurer is rightly keeping their file open for a period if time in case a claim comes in. If they subsequently close it with no payments made, they will refund any additional money they have charged you as a result of lost NCB

I'd say that'd be the hardest fought money you'd ever get.

Witcher · 12-07-2020 10:22pm

kravmaga wrote: »

Are you a member? No I dont think so.

Its always been known as collar number , another civvie with no clue;)

It's never been known as a collar number in AGS...

It's a shoulder number....

Killinator · 12-07-2020 11:13pm

kravmaga wrote: »

You need to do some research, DMP in Dublin , collar number= Shoulder number, you sound very pedantic.

Its called collar number in the UK, where I served as a member for many years in London.

But the AGS seems to be a very backward organisation compared to UK Police Forces

Ha thanks, I'll check my uniform to see if I can find my collar so.

You were also wrong about gardai not attending RTC's without injuries but you neglected to follow up on that.

And Dublin is referred to as the DMR not the DMP

Cows Go µ · 12-07-2020 11:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say that'd be the hardest fought money you'd ever get.

Not really, it's a fairly regular occurrence. The claim is closed and the money refunded, no hassle. The issue can be where you could have gotten a cheaper quote with another company of there were no claims but they don't really take that into consideration.

This is completely normal. They always keep bike claims open. Just because someone says they aren't going to claim, doesn't mean they aren't going to. Adrenaline at the scene stops people from feeling aches and pains. Insurance companies know that a claim is likely to happen so they keep it open for a year to two years (depending on the company) just in case.

Eggs For Dinner · 13-07-2020 7:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

'Open Claim' is lingo they use to describe when a claim has been made, but it has not been settled yet.

Are you sure they aren't misunderstanding the situation? I don't think they are allowed to levy you for not having a claim. Might be worth getting in touch with the ombudsman or even just citizens information or CCPC or someone who can give independent advice (I won't lie - I'm not sure who you'd actually contact!).

I'd say that'd be the hardest fought money you'd ever get.

An 'Open Claim' is where an incident has been reported to insurers and the outcome has yet to be determined, whether a 3rd party has lodged a claim or not. Some insurers, such as AXA, will close a file quickly if no claim comes in, once they have investigated the circumstances fully. Others might wait up to a year. Given the high instances of successful claims made by cyclists against motorists for any kind of contact, it is prudent to adopt a wait and see practice and set aside an appropriate reserve.

The ombudsman will not involve themselves with this, unless the file is kept open without a claim for an unreasonable time. As for getting a refund for any stopped NCB, it is standard practice and processed easily

ohnonotgmail · 13-07-2020 9:02am

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

An 'Open Claim' is where an incident has been reported to insurers and the outcome has yet to be determined, whether a 3rd party has lodged a claim or not. Some insurers, such as AXA, will close a file quickly if no claim comes in, once they have investigated the circumstances fully. Others might wait up to a year. Given the high instances of successful claims made by cyclists against motorists for any kind of contact, it is prudent to adopt a wait and see practice and set aside an appropriate reserve.

The ombudsman will not involve themselves with this, unless the file is kept open without a claim for an unreasonable time. As for getting a refund for any stopped NCB, it is standard practice and processed easily

the cyclist has up to to 2 years from the date of the accident to claim. It would not be unreasonable for the insurance company to wait the 2 years.

Eggs For Dinner · 13-07-2020 12:32pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the cyclist has up to to 2 years from the date of the accident to claim. It would not be unreasonable for the insurance company to wait the 2 years.

In practice, they don't wait that long unless they are aware a significant injury occurred. More likely to wait 6-12 months

SweetCaliber · 13-07-2020 1:49pm

Thanks for the replies guys have a better understanding now.

13-07-2020 6:21pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

An 'Open Claim' is where an incident has been reported to insurers and the outcome has yet to be determined, whether a 3rd party has lodged a claim or not. Some insurers, such as AXA, will close a file quickly if no claim comes in, once they have investigated the circumstances fully. Others might wait up to a year. Given the high instances of successful claims made by cyclists against motorists for any kind of contact, it is prudent to adopt a wait and see practice and set aside an appropriate reserve.

The ombudsman will not involve themselves with this, unless the file is kept open without a claim for an unreasonable time. As for getting a refund for any stopped NCB, it is standard practice and processed easily

Is there a reason why my informing of my insurance company of an accident didn't result in an 'open claim' then, and I was told I didn't need to mention it at any renewals?

Considering my RTA involved Garda, Ambulance, two written off cars, etc. I would have assumed they'd take it more seriously than the OP's issue..?

Eggs For Dinner · 13-07-2020 6:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there a reason why my informing of my insurance company of an accident didn't result in an 'open claim' then, and I was told I didn't need to mention it at any renewals?

Considering my RTA involved Garda, Ambulance, two written off cars, etc. I would have assumed they'd take it more seriously than the OP's issue..?

Did you or your insurers get confirmation that the other party was accepting liability? That would allow them close it straight away. What insurer was it?

You still have an obligation to declare an accident, but not a claim

13-07-2020 8:15pm

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Did you or your insurers get confirmation that the other party was accepting liability? That would allow them close it straight away. What insurer was it?

You still have an obligation to declare an accident, but not a claim

Ah okay, that may have been it alright - the other party did accept liability immediately, alright.

It was RSA insurance (via Bank of Ireland).

Peregrinus · 14-07-2020 2:39am

Back in the day, DMP constables had their number displayed on their uniforms, while RIC constables did not. This mirrored the practice in Britain, where city/metropolitan police forces generally displayed numbers, and shire/county forces did not.

Most police force uniforms featured a high collar for constables, with the number displayed on the collar; hence "collar number". The term was common both in Britain and Ireland.

When the DMP and the RIC were replaced with the Garda Siochana, the different numbering practice persisted for some time; members of the metropolitan division had numbers on their uniforms; others did not. At some point - I don't know when - uniform numbers became universal in the Garda Siochana.

Over time, uniforms were redesigned, and the high collar was replaced with an open collar, faced with lapels, showing a uniform shirt and tie underneath. At that point uniform numbers were tranferred to the epaulettes or, in some British forces, to the facings of the lapels. The terms "shoulder number" and "uniform number" began to be used, but the term "collar number" persisted, even after no police forces retained uniforms with a high collar.

The RUC, as the successor to the RIC in NI, retained a high-collar uniform for a long time (conservative bunch, the RUC) but another part of their RIC inheritance was that they didn't have uniform numbers. I don't think they introduced them until the 1960s, by which time they had uniforms with an open collar.

The bottom line is that "collar number" is an old-fashioned term, but at one time it was the only term used for numbers displayed on uniforms because originally they were all displayed on the collar. It's still in use in some circles.

endacl · 14-07-2020 2:50am

kravmaga wrote: »

Are you a member? No I dont think so.

Its always been known as collar number , another civvie with no clue;)

Found your picture.

340?cb=20161203125845&path-prefix=protagonist

Garda Abstract

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