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Rules of the road vs Laws of the road.

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Comments

  • #32
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,231 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That was my point.
    0.001% of motorists may break the red light but a vast majority of cyclists do.

    And that day you break the red light and the cyclist does too who do you think will get the blame?


  • #33
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    there's one junction i know of where i regularly see cars sail through the red, 10, 20 or 30s after it has gone red.
    this is the junction; many - and i mean *many* cars won't wait for a green to turn red.
    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3633747,-6.2227654,3a,75y,116.66h,85.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stiXMXMe8g-rEb06uNxkq0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


  • #34
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    We all know what the OP is saying and anyone who drives regularly does the same sort of things. There are a set of rules of the road and there is road signage to give a steer on what applies at places. But the reality is that most (all?) drivers are bending these regularly. They are using their judgement, observing other drivers and road users about them and making sensible decisions as to how to get from A to B efficiently and safely.


  • #35
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,239 ✭✭✭markpb


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    But the reality is that most (all?) drivers are bending these regularly. They are using their judgement, observing other drivers and road users about them and making sensible decisions as to how to get from A to B efficiently and safely.

    Don't try to sugar coat this as motorists being being sensible. Most people don't know why those rules are in place (30kph limit on the N3 - M50 onramp, 60kph at N4E - M50 split) or only take themselves into consideration (driving on the bus lane at Heuston, running amber/red lights, ignoring red filter lights). It's nothing to do with them making sensible decisions, they are ignorant decisions because they don't know or care why the rules are there.

    Try crossing the Alfie Byrne road as a pedestrian and see how many of those pedestrians are "observing other drivers" when they drive through the red filter light and green pedestrian light and nearly hit you. There's no observation going on there, only me-fein driving.

    Try being a bus passenger in Dublin and spending big chunks of your trip sitting in traffic because some pillock is blocking the bus lane because they think they're more important than the 89 people in the bus.

    If you think this is anti-motorist rant, you'd be wrong. This kind of behaviour also makes it difficult for others to turn left when the bus lane is blocked with cars. It encourages others to break the speed limit needlessly.

    And lastly, don't try to convince yourself that it's okay to break the law and treat other road users like crap. The majority of road users obey the law. There's just enough planks breaking the law that they don't feel like they're alone doing it.


  • #36
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,264 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    markpb wrote:
    It's nothing to do with them making sensible decisions, they are ignorant decisions because they don't know or care why the rules are there.
    And they know they're unlikely to be penalized/ enforcement is non existent. And seemingly no push from even the rsa for more cameras/ anpr, which could do more about speeding/ red lights/ bus lanes/ tax, insurance, nct etc than whatever number of traffic corps they want.


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  • #37
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,727 ✭✭✭degsie


    troyzer wrote: »
    and dangerously undertaken

    This is because lazy fat-ass drivers refuse to get out of an overtaking lane and enter the driving lane.


  • #38
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That is one of the ridiculous speed limits.
    Also, it's not really enforceable. The speed vans can park in the 60 or 50 zone before it or the 80-100 zone (ie the m50) after it - and they do regularly.
    But there's nowhere they can park to get the 30 zone.
    Combine lack of enforcement, and a ridiculously low speed limit, and you get zero adherence (or nearly 0)

    I'm familiar with that one myself. Noone will drive up that at 30kph expecially with such a steep incline you can actually risk stalling on it at that speed if your not careful. Really poor foresight whoever thougut that was appropiate.


  • #39
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,239 ✭✭✭markpb


    Infini wrote: »
    Noone will drive up that at 30kph expecially with such a steep incline you can actually risk stalling on it at that speed if your not careful. Really poor foresight whoever thougut that was appropiate.

    You'd want to be some poor driver to be unable to drive on a hill without speeding or stalling!


  • #40
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i think you need your eyes tested. amber and red light jumping is endemic in ireland. there's one junction i know of where i regularly see cars sail through the red, 10, 20 or 30s after it has gone red.

    Compared to cycles cars are a drop in the ocean with regard breaking lights. I see it at every light in Dublin every day at work. 20 at a time will flow pass the line of cars and sale straight through the red, no matter how long the red has been on. You may see an odd car race though a late amber or early red.


  • #41
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    And they know they're unlikely to be penalized/ enforcement is non existent. And seemingly no push from even the rsa for more cameras/ anpr, which could do more about speeding/ red lights/ bus lanes/ tax, insurance, nct etc than whatever number of traffic corps they want.

    Absolutely spot-on.

    With the Garda Roads Policing Units (How much was spent on the re-brand ?) woefully under strength,and even then largely deployed on "Headline" policing...ie static Vehicle Check Points...there appears to be no official appetite for mobile pro-active Traffic Policing.

    In the absence of this,it would be prudent to involve the private sector in the automation and utilization of Traffic Law enforcement.

    It's not ALL about drink driving !! :eek:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #42
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,234 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    You may see an odd car race though a late amber or early red.
    may? i would see it at nearly every set of lights, cars not just 'squeezing through' on an amber, but gunning it when they see one. it's constant.

    it's funny though that there's now a terminology, 'late amber'; 'early red' - red is red. amber is amber.
    the argument is lost if that's where we're at.


  • #43
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Infini wrote: »
    I'm familiar with that one myself. Noone will drive up that at 30kph expecially with such a steep incline you can actually risk stalling on it at that speed if your not careful. Really poor foresight whoever thougut that was appropiate.

    It's quite easy. I do it any time I'm through there. What are you driving and in what gear?

    The issue isn't the limit. The limit is there because of poor road design. It has to take into account all road users.


  • #44
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    troyzer wrote: »
    I did this for the first year or so of having my license and after a while there's just no point. Constantly being beeped at and dangerously undertaken is very much the other person's fault.


    If you are in the left lane, then you can only be dangerously overtaken.


  • #45
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    markpb wrote: »
    You'd want to be some poor driver to be unable to drive on a hill without speeding or stalling!

    Not once have i done 30 kph over that bit but you can't risk taking the piss either because of the traffic lights on the other side and potentially cars stop just over the bend..


  • #46
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,727 ✭✭✭degsie


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Not once have i done 30 kph over that bit but you can't risk taking the piss either because of the traffic lights on the other side and potentially cars stop just over the bend..

    Always thought you go around a bend, maybe I'm mistaken.


  • #47
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    degsie wrote: »
    Always thought you go around a bend, maybe I'm mistaken.

    Yes, you are mistaken.


  • #48
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    may? i would see it at nearly every set of lights, cars not just 'squeezing through' on an amber, but gunning it when they see one. it's constant.

    it's funny though that there's now a terminology, 'late amber'; 'early red' - red is red. amber is amber.
    the argument is lost if that's where we're at.

    Well may would be the wrong word. fairly often would be better.

    Late ambers was tossed around quite alot in my Cat D training and testing. Stop unless it is unsafe to do so. Covers alot. Gunning it would not be a reason:pac:


  • #49
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    degsie wrote: »
    Always thought you go around a bend, maybe I'm mistaken.

    There's a bend on the crest of the over pass in question.


  • #50
    bigar
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭bigar


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That was my point.
    0.001% of motorists may break the red light but a vast majority of cyclists do.

    When I am on my motorbike, I filter through to the traffic light. When there I seem many more cars breaking a red than bicycles. When I move off when green, I always look right and left first as it is possible cars will still go through red. This is a daily occurrence.


  • #51
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    degsie wrote: »
    This is because lazy fat-ass drivers refuse to get out of an overtaking lane and enter the driving lane.

    Or you're getting into position to turn right?


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  • #52
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    If you are in the left lane, then you can only be dangerously overtaken.

    As I replied to another guy, there's a junction at Palmerstown that I turn right at regularly so I usually get into lane a few hundred metres before. The road is too busy to change lanes at the last moment.

    Which is when every prick in an Audi verbalises their faux outrage at the car in front of them doing the speed limit (or slightly above) and trying to go right.


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