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13-04-2021, 13:02   #7006
FrancieBrady
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You can't buy loyalty to a state. You have to persuade people.

This is the simple fact that Republican minded Nationalists avoid.

Why? Because 'Nationalism' is based on defining and emphasising differences.

I want a UI. You want a UI. Then work to persuade all citizens of the island that it's in the joint interests of everybody.

That entails changes to a century old mindset down south.
Define those who don't want the process of persuasion to even begin? A first Border Poll campaign.
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13-04-2021, 13:11   #7007
BonnieSituation
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furze99 View Post
You can't buy loyalty to a state. You have to persuade people.

This is the simple fact that Republican minded Nationalists avoid.

Why? Because 'Nationalism' is based on defining and emphasising differences.

I want a UI. You want a UI. Then work to persuade all citizens of the island that it's in the joint interests of everybody.

That entails changes to a century old mindset down south.
Cool.
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14-04-2021, 14:17   #7008
BonnieSituation
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I've posted before about Mr Hay:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...itish-passport

---

When the de Souza case was ongoing we were told that Mrs de Souza should just put up as she was "British".

What do our resident belligerents think of Mr Hay's case?

The British system is such an anachronistic mess that someone like him can be treated like a citizen (non-alien; like all Irish citizens) for their entire lives, sit in on top-level security meetings, be a fixture of their political class, even become a peer and yet, to regularise their citizenship, is an absolute hassle of epic proportions.

Something needs to be done. I'm completely on his side.
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14-04-2021, 15:39   #7009
eire4
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I've posted before about Mr Hay:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...itish-passport

---

When the de Souza case was ongoing we were told that Mrs de Souza should just put up as she was "British".

What do our resident belligerents think of Mr Hay's case?

The British system is such an anachronistic mess that someone like him can be treated like a citizen (non-alien; like all Irish citizens) for their entire lives, sit in on top-level security meetings, be a fixture of their political class, even become a peer and yet, to regularise their citizenship, is an absolute hassle of epic proportions.

Something needs to be done. I'm completely on his side.
I thought they were "subjects" not citizens anyway.
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18-04-2021, 18:06   #7010
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Everybody's in a holding position to see what happens with Scotland. Will they be granted another independence referendum, and if so what way will it go?

If Scotland votes to leave the UK then this may destabilise Northern Ireland's place within the UK with the possibility of NI hitching it's wagon to the new dynamic fledgling Scotland, or they may vote to stay as they are in the UK with Wales & England.

... or might they actually decide to join our Republic to form a United Ireland? God knows.
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18-04-2021, 18:28   #7011
schmittel
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Everybody's in a holding position to see what happens with Scotland. Will they be granted another independence referendum, and if so what way will it go?

If Scotland votes to leave the UK then this may destabilise Northern Ireland's place within the UK with the possibility of NI hitching it's wagon to the new dynamic fledgling Scotland, or they may vote to stay as they are in the UK with Wales & England.

... or might they actually decide to join our Republic to form a United Ireland? God knows.
If Scotland left the UK, it would remove the last vested interest most English politicians have in Northern Ireland - they'd probably call a border poll pretty shortly afterwards.
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18-04-2021, 18:45   #7012
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If Scotland left the UK, it would remove the last vested interest most English politicians have in Northern Ireland - they'd probably call a border poll pretty shortly afterwards.
But they can't just call a border poll in NI unless it's showing signs that it might like to leave .....

Currently NI is not showing any such sign.

A succession of local NI polls would have to show a trend in the direction of a United Ireland before any English politicians would be involved.
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18-04-2021, 18:49   #7013
schmittel
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But they can't just call a border poll in NI unless it's showing signs that it might like to leave .....

Currently NI is not showing any such sign.

A succession of local NI polls would have to show a trend in the direction of a United Ireland before any English politicians would be involved.
Nothing in the GFA to say anything about a succession of polls showing a trend as far as I am aware.

The only person qualified to decide what constitutes showing signs it might to like to leave is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. He can call a poll whenever he wishes.
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18-04-2021, 18:56   #7014
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Nothing in the GFA to say anything about a succession of polls showing a trend as far as I am aware.

The only person qualified to decide what constitutes showing signs it might to like to leave is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. He can call a poll whenever he wishes.
Nothing in the GFA allows Scotland leaving the UK or the removal of the last vested interest most English politicians to be a factor in a poll
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18-04-2021, 18:58   #7015
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Nothing in the GFA to say anything about a succession of polls showing a trend as far as I am aware.

The only person qualified to decide what constitutes showing signs it might to like to leave is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. He can call a poll whenever he wishes.
Yes, but as has been said many times before, there's no point in him calling one unless there is some sign that the "tectonic plates" might have shifted, currently there is no such sign.

If a succession of NI polls show a shift away from the UK in favour of a UI, then so be it, he may call for a border poll.
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18-04-2021, 19:17   #7016
FrancieBrady
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Originally Posted by schmittel View Post
Nothing in the GFA to say anything about a succession of polls showing a trend as far as I am aware.

The only person qualified to decide what constitutes showing signs it might to like to leave is the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. He can call a poll whenever he wishes.
The SoS can decide on the basis of two fly's climbing a window pane. Tested in court already - he/she is not constrained nor has to offer evidence for their decision.

It was and always will be when it is politically right...as I said before I think it will come when Dublin gives the nod that it is ready.
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18-04-2021, 19:34   #7017
schmittel
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The SoS can decide on the basis of two fly's climbing a window pane. Tested in court already - he/she is not constrained nor has to offer evidence for their decision.
My point exactly.

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Originally Posted by downcow View Post
Nothing in the GFA allows Scotland leaving the UK or the removal of the last vested interest most English politicians to be a factor in a poll
See above.
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18-04-2021, 20:40   #7018
BonnieSituation
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Originally Posted by Hamsterchops View Post
Everybody's in a holding position to see what happens with Scotland. Will they be granted another independence referendum, and if so what way will it go?

If Scotland votes to leave the UK then this may destabilise Northern Ireland's place within the UK with the possibility of NI hitching it's wagon to the new dynamic fledgling Scotland, or they may vote to stay as they are in the UK with Wales & England.

... or might they actually decide to join our Republic to form a United Ireland? God knows.
What are you on about?

Seriously, what do you get out of posting such ignorant and uninformed nonsense every so often?
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