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The story of what led bobby sands to join the IRA

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    #92
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    Well it obviously failed, because despite murdering thousands, injuring tens of thousands, being responsible (along with the INLA) for 99% of the bombings / property destroyed, its leaders are in government helping administer the same foreign occupation and oppression. Terrible thing that foreign occupation and oppression. Did you know that despite being allowed a choice of passports, as many Northern Catholics have chosen to have a UK one as an Irish one?

    I'm not discussing now I'm talking about back then most people don't care about where their from they just want to be treated fairly which they weren't which is why in the 70s catholics overwhelmingly wanted to be irish and not British.

    I wouldn't say they failed since fighting for a United Ireland at the time the offensive campaign began was seen as the only way to achieve equality for their people.

    As I said you can't see into the future there comes a time where you either accept your situation or fight.


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    #93
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    jack923 wrote: »
    The IRA were a organisation which tried to free northern Ireland from foreign occupation and oppression, catholics in northern Ireland were denied equal rights by the state.

    The IRA were at war with the state of course they weren't able to vote on it. There is no difference between state terrorism and IRA terrorism, 1916 also falls into the category you mentioned it doesn't make it wrong.

    We are talking about wether in this case that fighting against the state was justified or not, 6 counties were being held in this country against the will of the people of Ireland.

    Northern ireland is very much a separate country to Ireland. The gulf is massive.

    Also, yes - 1916 is another example of stupid decisions leading to slaughter, strife and the future generations being saddled with the consequences.


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    #94
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    No, the IRA had a thing about murdering them

    How do you figure that? The IRA along with the British army took measures to avoid killing civilians but of course in a war that can only bring you so far.

    The British army are accused of intentionally killing children like Margaret Gargaran a 13 year old girl who was shot in the head by a sniper alongside the priest who ran to try and help her waving a white towel.


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    #95
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    jack923 wrote: »
    The IRA were a organisation which tried to free northern Ireland from foreign occupation and oppression, catholics in northern Ireland were denied equal rights by the state.

    The IRA were at war with the state of course they weren't able to vote on it. There is no difference between state terrorism and IRA terrorism, 1916 also falls into the category you mentioned it doesn't make it wrong.

    We are talking about wether in this case that fighting against the state was justified or not, 6 counties were being held in this country against the will of the people of Ireland.

    You've just deviated off your line there by using the "IRA terrorism ".


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    #96
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    Northern ireland is very much a separate country to Ireland. The gulf is massive.

    Also, yes - 1916 is another example of stupid decisions leading to slaughter, strife and the future generations being saddled with the consequences.

    Yes the celtic tiger is a terrible consequence of 1916 isn't it.


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    #97
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    corner of hells wrote: »
    You've just deviated off your line there by using the "IRA terrorism ".

    By definition it was terrorism.

    Same as 1916, the American war of independence etc. Fighting against the state is terrorism.


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    #98
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    jack923 wrote: »
    The IRA were a organisation which tried to free northern Ireland from foreign occupation and oppression, catholics in northern Ireland were denied equal rights by the state.

    The IRA were at war with the state of course they weren't able to vote on it. There is no difference between state terrorism and IRA terrorism, 1916 also falls into the category you mentioned it doesn't make it wrong.

    We are talking about wether in this case that fighting against the state was justified or not, 6 counties were being held in this country against the will of the people of Ireland.

    Against the will of the people of Ireland??? The Republic of Ireland voted to give up any claim on the 6 counties, that was the level of concern for them and the desire to reclaim them.

    The IRA were/are nothing more cowardly, murdering scum who claimed wrongly to represent the wishes of the majority of the people of this island.


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    #99
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Owryan wrote: »
    Against the will of the people of Ireland??? The Republic of Ireland voted to give up any claim on the 6 counties, that was the level of concern for them and the desire to reclaim them.

    The IRA were/are nothing more cowardly, murdering scum who claimed wrongly to represent the wishes of the majority of the people of this island.

    Why do people call them cowards? I don't think storming army barracks with machine guns is very cowardly do you?


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    #100
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    jack923 wrote: »
    I'm not discussing now I'm talking about back then most people don't care about where their from they just want to be treated fairly which they weren't which is why in the 70s catholics overwhelmingly wanted to be irish and not British.

    lol. I bet you were not even around in the 1970's on in N.I. in the 1970's, were you?

    By the way, even Ian Paisley said "I would never deny I was an Irishman"
    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-news/ian-paisley-i-d-never-deny-i-m-irish-1-6307792


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    #101
    Giacomo McGubbin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 677 ✭✭✭Giacomo McGubbin


    jack923 wrote: »
    How do you figure that? The IRA along with the British army took measures to avoid killing civilians but of course in a war that can only bring you so far.

    The British army are accused of intentionally killing children like Margaret Gargaran a 13 year old girl who was shot in the head by a sniper alongside the priest who ran to try and help her waving a white towel.

    And the IRA were no better.
    The IRA were cowardly terrorists who deliberately targeted civilians just as ISIS do, and murdered far more civilians than they ever did soldiers, and far more civilians than the British army did. They didn't like taking on anyone who could fight back, much better to blow up kids out shopping with the mums with litter bin bombs etc, or sneak up to farm houses at night time and shoot people in the back or as they slept. Absolute scum of the highest order.


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    #102
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    jack923 wrote: »
    Why do people call them cowards? I don't think storming army barracks with machine guns is very cowardly do you?

    Where, when was this?


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    #103
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    jack923 wrote: »
    Why do people call them cowards? I don't think storming army barracks with machine guns is very cowardly do you?
    Out of the many thousands of surprise incidents they engaged in, they more usually went about in civilian clothes putting bombs in shopping centres, pubs, restaurants, hotels, under family cars, etc


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    #104
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Owryan wrote: »
    Where, when was this?

    Loughall and the attack on derryard checkpoint off the top of my head, even a british military chief said they weren't cowards because the public were calling them cowards for whatever reason.


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    #105
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    Giacomo McGubbin wrote: »
    And the IRA were no better.
    The IRA were cowardly terrorists who deliberately targeted civilians just as ISIS do, and murdered far more civilians than they ever did soldiers, and far more civilians than the British army did. They didn't like taking on anyone who could fight back, much better to blow up kids out shopping with the mums with litter bin bombs etc, or sneak up to farm houses at night time and shoot people in the back or as they slept. Absolute scum of the highest order.

    And if someone did manage to shoot back, they complained of a "shoot to kill policy" lol.


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    #106
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    maryishere wrote: »
    Out of the many thousands of surprise incidents they engaged in, they more usually went about in civilian clothes putting bombs in shopping centres, pubs, restaurants, hotels, under family cars, etc

    How many children died at the hands of the IRA, Mary?


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    #107
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    jack923 wrote: »
    Yes the celtic tiger is a terrible consequence of 1916 isn't it.

    I know you're just trying to point-score here but...

    Well...yes.

    It's terrible that it took over 80 years for the country to recover economically from 1916, the war of independence and civil war.

    Then when some growth did happen, the political institutions had been undermined so much by politics being defined by a party's stance on those mistakes that we were unable to have proper guidance, regulation and planning...and the whole thing went tìts-up.


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    #108
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    Out of the many thousands of surprise incidents they engaged in, they more usually went about in civilian clothes putting bombs in shopping centres, pubs, restaurants, hotels, under family cars, etc

    That was part of hurting the economy and putting pressure on the government 99.999% of the time no one was killed in these incidents.

    Also if you want to look at the evidence that the Le mon restaurant bombing was done on purpose by double agents to hurt support for the IRA and gain more spy volunteers feel free.


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    #109
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    And if someone did manage to shoot back, they complained of a "shoot to kill policy" lol.

    I would agree with you here if the British didn’t refuse to call it a war and if it wasn't a war they shouldn't have had a shoot to kill policy.


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    #110
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    jack923 wrote: »
    Loughall and the attack on derryard checkpoint off the top of my head, even a british military chief said they weren't cowards because the public were calling them cowards for whatever reason.

    Is that not the attack where 8 Ra heads were killed by the sas, yeah, something to be proud of.

    As for cowards, read up on the proxy car bomb campaign, brave heroes forced innocent people to drive car bombs towards checkpoints.

    Blowing up retired police officers, killing Australian nurses, murdering mother's, unborn children, kids in shopping centres.....yeah brave, heroic warriors, would make you sick.


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    #111
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Owryan wrote: »
    Is that not the attack where 8 Ra heads were killed by the sas, yeah, something to be proud of.

    As for cowards, read up on the proxy car bomb campaign, brave heroes forced innocent people to drive car bombs towards checkpoints.

    Blowing up retired police officers, killing Australian nurses, murdering mother's, unborn children, kids in shopping centres.....yeah brave, heroic warriors, would make you sick.

    The proxy bomb campaign was actually done by british agents to hurt support for the IRA this is actually commonly known.


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    #112
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    pablo128 wrote: »
    How many children died at the hands of the IRA, Mary?
    Which IRA : the IRA (PIRA) which bombed the civilians in Bloody Friday, or the kids on the boat in Mullaghmore, or the kids in Warrington etc, or the IRA ( IRA dissidents ) which bombed the kids in Omagh etc?


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    #113
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    jack923 wrote: »
    That was part of hurting the economy and putting pressure on the government 99.999% of the time no one was killed in these incidents.

    Also if you want to look at the evidence that the Le mon restaurant bombing was done on purpose by double agents to hurt support for the IRA and gain more spy volunteers feel free.

    Everything's double-agents or someone else...was there even an IRA? Does northern ireland even exist or is it just something made up to scare kids?


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    #114
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    Owryan wrote: »
    Is that not the attack where 8 Ra heads were killed by the sas, yeah, something to be proud of.

    As for cowards, read up on the proxy car bomb campaign, brave heroes forced innocent people to drive car bombs towards checkpoints.

    Blowing up retired police officers, killing Australian nurses, murdering mother's, unborn children, kids in shopping centres.....yeah brave, heroic warriors, would make you sick.

    You could easily call the British cowards for that attack since they got 36 of their most highly trained men to ambush 5 IRA men.


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    #115
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    jack923 wrote: »
    Also if you want to look at the evidence that the Le mon restaurant bombing was done on purpose by double agents to hurt support for the IRA and gain more spy volunteers feel free.
    Did you get all of your education from an Phoblacht?


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    #116
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    NiallBoo wrote: »
    Everything's double-agents or someone else...was there even an IRA? Does northern ireland even exist or is it just something made up to scare kids?

    Le mon restaurant bombing was done by british double agents same with the proxy bomb campaign files were actually leaked on the proxy bomb campaign.


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    #117
    jack923
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭jack923


    maryishere wrote: »
    Did you get all of your education from an Phoblocht?

    I don't know what that is


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    #118
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    maryishere wrote: »
    Which IRA : the IRA (PIRA) which bombed the civilians in Bloody Friday, or the kids on the boat in Mullaghmore, or the kids in Warrington etc, or the IRA ( IRA dissidents ) which bombed the kids in Omagh etc?

    Well the thread is about Bobby Sands, so we'll go with the Provo's.


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    #119
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    jack923 wrote: »
    Le mon restaurant bombing was done by british double agents same with the proxy bomb campaign files were actually leaked on the proxy bomb campaign.

    Sooooo, ira attacks that killed some people were real ira attacks, but some ira attacks that killed people were fake/false flag/british plots.


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    #120
    maryishere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    jack923 wrote: »
    I don't know what that is
    You do not know what anphoblacht was, and what role it played in the troubles?


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    #121
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    maryishere wrote: »
    Did you get all of your education from an Phoblocht?

    MOD Note:
    Personal attacks are contrary to this forum's charter. Please refrain from this.

    ...

    Given the back and forth nature of the posts, this thread may soon be joining other closed ones.


This discussion has been closed.
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